VATICAN On 'Homosexual Behavior.'

[Shepherd 2]

About five hours ago, the Vatican revealed that ignorance has no timeline or limits. In a report of the Associated Press, and read on the internet this is a statment we could all have wished had been much different.

"A Vatican office that evaluated US Roman Catholic seminaries says the schools have made improvements in halting what they all 'homosexual behavior' among students.

The Vatican also says seminaries are doing well in teaching about celibacy and are generally effective in screening candidates for the priesthood.

The Vatican ordered the seminary review in response to the clergy sex abuse crisis to see whether the schools had contributed to the problem.

The Vatican also directed evaluators to look for "evidence of homosexuality' in the schools.

In a disclaimer by the Associated Press: Some Catholics blame gay clergy for the abuse scandal. Experts on sex offenders say gays are no more likely than others to molest children.

My opinion, is that there is no apparent change either in opinion or practice implied by this so called brief report. In fact, the thinking about homosexuality in the Catholic Church is alarmingly outdated and reflects the apparent status quo that existed before the so called sex abuse crisis in the Church which it is painfully easy to allow most Catholics to believe that it just might have been caused by 'homosexual behavior.' This is an outrage. In my opinion, I hope that most Catholic gay men will object to this deliberate attempt to cast blame on the gay community for their Church's own problems instead of accepting responsibility for clearning house of the sick priests who are not gay, but sexual preditors and abusers.

In my opinion!
Shep+

 

[Txgoodoldboy]

Sounds like a witch hunt.

 

[RationalLunacy]

Isn't it time for the Priory of Scion to come out of hiding and attack the Vatican?

 

[EwanSF]

I'm not surprised. Yet more attacks on the gay community from men in dresses...makes ye wonder.

 

[The_Reaper]

Isn't it time for the Priory of Scion to come out of hiding and attack the Vatican?

Blame Ian McKellen; anyone familiar with the Da Vinci Code knows why.

 

[star-warrior]

Well said, Shep.

It seems extraordinary that they don't mention abuse of girls amongst the clergy only to concentrate on the abuse of boys. Both are abominable, but they've turned this into a 'gay' thing, when its much more complex than what the vatican is suggesting.

 

[kallipolis]

Regretfully most of the victims, of clergy sexual abuse, are teenage boys.

We do not need to speculate on the thought, that homosexual priests are more inclined towards boys, than girls.

Criminal sexual abuse is abhorrent, and I salute The Vatican for ensuring that sexually, immature males of all sexual persuasions are rejected, during the screening process for admission to a seminary.

That it has taken a victim compensation, process running into tens of millions, to wake up those who live in ivory towers, does suggest that fewer sexual predators will enter the seminary system.

Some predators are smart, enough to bluff their way, through the screening process.

Reading the captioned article I do not note, any condemnation of the gay community (whatever, that may be) rather of those persons, who attempt to enter the priesthood to facilitate their own sick sexual fantasies.

 

[kallipolis]

And I'm not surprised, yet another thread about the problem rather than the solution.

The OP of this thread has reminded us, more than once, that one of his (Protestant) forebears was burnt, at the stake some 400 years ago by nasty Catholics.

Distant memories, impacting upon the present, as a burning concern.

 

[kallipolis]

...and the solution is?

If you happen to know the answer to the problem of the institutionalised homophobia of the Catholic Church please feel free to start a thread about it.

It should be said that Catholic seminaries are still accepting, mature homosexual candidates into their seminary system. This despite the invitation of head office that all Catholic seminaries should reject obvious gay candidates to the priesthood.

We should distinguish between, grass roots action where gay persons are accepted, and the apparent lack of goodwill of those who offer media, sound breaks to satisfy the immature minds of the bigoted human being.

 

[Shepherd 2]

Regretably there are a few JUBbers who have identified themselves as victims of the Catholic Clergy who have perpetrated abuse against Catholic boys and girls. I do not expect any of them will choose to post here, nor should they feel that it is expected. But this is the year 2009 and one has a reasonable hope that we can finally face the uncomfortable truth even in the Catholic Church.

In my opinion this is an institutional sin, that is a sin of the Church. Especially their willingness to let gay men be the fall guys for the problems of the church to guard all of us from their perpetrator priests who are only a small fraction of the priesthood, but who were left to do their worst, while the heirarchy only fiddled around and made confusing public statements, or even worse did nothing to protect innocent children from such sick people as they ordained to the priesthood.

Shep+

 

[versatastic]

They should just castrate all their priests. They're supposed to be celebate anyway.

 

[Shepherd 2]

...and the solution is?

If you happen to know the answer to the problem of the institutionalised homophobia of the Catholic Church please feel free to start a thread about it.

I believe the solution is for good men and women who believe that such no response of the Catholic institution is itself a form of heresy should continue to speak out, until at last, they realize it is time to change. That may indeed take such an ingrown institution centuries.

Let me illustrate this is a real life historical thread. I am the direct descent of a Christian martyr in both the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, first a Mennonite man who was burned at the stake by the Catholic Church near Zurich, Switzerland, then another man who a little more than a century later was burned at the stake by the Reformed (Protestant) Church of Switzerland. Both were burned for being heretics.

In the 1990s the Reformed Church in Switzerland appologized for this heinous behavior. Not one word has even come down from anyone in the Roman Catholic Church about appology or forgiveness. All of it happened four and five centuries ago. As a gay man, I see strong parallels in this story to the issue of this thread.

Shep+

 

[kallipolis]

Regretably there are a few JUBbers who have identified themselves as victims of the Catholic Clergy who have perpetrated abuse against Catholic boys and girls. I do not expect any of them will choose to post here, nor should they feel that it is expected. But this is the year 2009 and one has a reasonable hope that we can finally face the uncomfortable truth even in the Catholic Church.

In my opinion this is an institutional sin, that is a sin of the Church. Especially their willingness to let gay men be the fall guys for the problems of the church to guard all of us from their perpetrator priests who are only a small fraction of the priesthood, but who were left to do their worst, while the heirarchy only fiddled around and made confusing public statements, or even worse did nothing to protect innocent children from such sick people as they ordained to the priesthood.

Shep+

The open minded person is also well aware that criminal, sexual abuse is not a monopoly of the Catholic priesthood.

A wise man said that when we attempt to focus on one part of a serious, social contagion we are permitting our prejudices to act as a means to isolate the problem in one sector of human society.

Regretfully such criminal, sexual abuse is common among clergy of all Christian denominations:

http://www.fisheaters.com/clergysexabuse.html

 

[Shepherd 2]

They should just castrate all their priests. They're supposed to be celebate anyway.

Being castrated would not end the perpatrators or their abuse. Think about this statement. It is not about sex, it is about power and its abuse. Please, I know we want to be angry, but clear headed thinking will get us I believe much further. I want to talk to people in the Catholic Church. I would like to see change and reconcilliation.

Shep+

 

[Shepherd 2]

The open minded person is also well aware that criminal, sexual abuse is not a monopoly of the Catholic priesthood.

A wise man said that when we attempt to focus on one part of a serious, social contagion we are permitting our prejudices to act as a means to isolate the problem in one sector of human society.

Regretfully such criminal, sexual abuse is common among clergy of all Christian denominations:
http://www.fisheaters.com/clergysexabuse.html

Indeed, this is regretabbly so. This is a valid and good point to make and thanks for consturctively adding to this conversation.

Shep+

 

[kallipolis]

Indeed, this is regretabbly so. This is a valid and good point to make and thanks for consturctively adding to this conversation.

Shep+

I enjoy adding some balance to the equation.

 

[Shepherd 2]

I'm not surprised. Yet more attacks on the gay community from men in dresses...makes ye wonder.

Ewan, I do not know whether this is a tongue in cheek statement or an attempt to stereotype those of us who are priests of the Church, howbeit, the Anglican Church. My alb and cassock are neither one a dress, not do they signify that I am effeminite or a cross dressor. Sin is in the heart of the man, and is not a indication of his clothing. Change is also in the heart of a man, and is not effected by changing the way he dresses.

You are free to wonder, but anyone who knows many of us who are priests, know that we are just as troubled by this distress in society and in particular in the Church, and hope that we can in our time effect a systemic and societal change.

Shep+

 

[versatastic]

Being castrated would not end the perpatrators or their abuse. Think about this statement. It is not about sex, it is about power and its abuse. Please, I know we want to be angry, but clear headed thinking will get us I believe much further. I want to talk to people in the Catholic Church. I would like to see change and reconcilliation.

Shep+

I was hardly making an angry statement to lash out at the clergy. Chemical castration has been shown to be effective in severly reducing or eliminating subsequent offences when administered to convicted sex offenders. It's actually a birth control pill given to men instead of surgically removing the testicals. It's not actually castration by definition, especially since it's reversible if you stop taking the drug.

 

[kallipolis]

I was hardly making an angry statement to lash out at the clergy. Chemical castration has been shown to be effective in severly reducing or eliminating subsequent offences when administered to convicted sex offenders. It's actually a birth control pill given to men instead of surgically removing the testicals. It's not actually castration by definition, especially since it's reversible if you stop taking the drug.

We should also recognise that electric, shock treatment has been utilised into recent times as a means to reverse, or temper homosexual sexual behaviour in human beings.

Such inhumane treatment of the human, person speaks volumes on the society that presumes to act in defence of humanity.

 

[gingentleman]

..........