What does this mean? (Laptop shopping questions)

[springboksfan]

Let me preface this by saying I am not the most literate guy about the guts of a computer. Like with us humans, I figure if it's inside the body it's inside for a reason and I don't need to see it or worry about its functions. Well, you know what I mean.

So anyway, I'm browsing around looking for a new laptop to purchase in August. But I have a question about the language used. For instance, I read this about a processor: Pentium(R) Dual-Core Mobile Processor T2390 (1.86 GHz) and I have no idea if that means the total of the two is 1.86 or if each is 1.86.

And then they have the various options to upgrade for whatever amount of money and I have no idea if it's a good deal or not. Another example:

Pentium(R) Dual-Core Mobile Processor T2390 (1.86 GHz) Included in price

Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T5750 (2.0GHz) +$75.00

Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T8100 (2.10GHz) +$175.00

Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T8300 (2.40GHz) +$225.0

Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T9300 (2.50GHz) +$300.00

As if that wasn't enough, now there's more than one option for wireless. Apparently wireless is wireless like a rose is a rose. Ugh.

802.11b/g WLAN Included in price
Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection +$15.00
Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network Connection +$40.00
Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network Connection and Bluetooth(TM) +$65.00

So how do I know which one I might need? I thought G was what was used most everywhere. N must be the new thing?

I've decided that I'm going to avoid Vista like the plague, so I'm interested in maybe using Linux or Ubuntu or whatnot. I've read that some computers are not compatible with those? Is this so? And if so, how will I know? (And, frankly, why the hell aren't they?)

Anyway, any help you guys can give me would be most greatly appreciated. I'm looking to replace my old Dell Inspiron 5150 which has managed to eek out 4 years of existence but is now on its third "issue." I'm also not wanting to spend a whole lot of money. I just need something to get me through the next 3 years of school. FYI, I'm not a gamer, but I would like to have the ability to add some sort of drawing program so we/I can create diagrams of shoot site layouts and possibly render an animation of a fireworks trailer he wants to build. Oh yeah...and to be able to watch massive amounts of porn!

Yeah, okay, so thanks again.

 

[Paws]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Note that...

"Dual-Core", also called "Core Duo"

...is not the same as a "Core 2 Duo".

 

[springboksfan]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Thanks so much for the advice, guys. I'd forgotten the whole Core Duo and Core 2 Duo thing. According to a previous thread, I definitely want to go with the Core 2, right? Would the difference between the 2.0 GHz processor and the 2.10 be worth the $100? For just .10?

Check on the N wireless. I don't use bluetooth at all right now, but I may as well plan ahead, eh?

The RAM was something I forgot to put up there. The one I was looking at offered an upgrade from 2GB to 3GB for only $50. I'm all over that.

I'm not a good judge of weight. This one weighs about 6 pounds (so the website says). That's going to be pretty portable, isn't it? I do have long walks up and down hills on my campus. Maybe I should look for something lighter?

I've seen XP software at BestBuy for like $100, so I might do that, but I'm also interested in learning the other operating systems.

Okay, so it all boils down to this: I have no idea what I'm doing! lol But thanks for the help, guys. You've answered my first set of questions!

 

[Jannus]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Thanks so much for the advice, guys. I'd forgotten the whole Core Duo and Core 2 Duo thing. According to a previous thread, I definitely want to go with the Core 2, right? Would the difference between the 2.0 GHz processor and the 2.10 be worth the $100? For just .10?

The Core 2 Duo is possibly useful if you plan to run virtual machines. A lot a people think that's the wave of the future, but I doubt you'll notice any difference between Duo Core and Core 2 if you run only XP or only ubuntu. So I'd say $75 for the Core 2 upgrade is a wash - that could go either way, depending on how you end up using your computer.

As to the processor speed difference, it's absurd to pay $100 for the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 GHz - you wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you ran the two machines side by side, with exactly the same software installed.

Check on the N wireless. I don't use bluetooth at all right now, but I may as well plan ahead, eh?

It's purely a personal bias, but I'd go with the Bluetooth. It can be really cool if you have a device to use with it. And it is much, much better to get it integrated than to try to add it on later.

The RAM was something I forgot to put up there. The one I was looking at offered an upgrade from 2GB to 3GB for only $50. I'm all over that.

If you use only XP or only ubuntu, you probably won't notice any difference between 2 GB and 3 GB RAM. As Orion noted, you would be hard put to force Linux into a situation where it needed more than 2 GB RAM, regardless of what you tried to throw at it. Nevertheless, $50 is not a bad price for 1 GB of laptop RAM, so I'd probably go with the 3 GB.

Even if you go with Linux, and even acknowledging that Linux would probably never need the extra 1 GB RAM, it can still be useful. There are some add-on memory managers for Linux that can make use of the extra RAM in clever ways.

With XP, you might notice a speed improvement between 2 GB and 3 GB under certain circumstances, although I doubt you'd ever actually see it.

I'm not a good judge of weight. This one weighs about 6 pounds (so the websitRAM, although I'm skeptical you would really be able to appreciate any differencee says). That's going to be pretty portable, isn't it? I do have long walks up and down hills on my campus. Maybe I should look for something lighter?

Go buy a 5 lb bag of sugar and carry it around in your back pack for a day. If that's too heavy, I'd go with an "ultramobile" PC like the Asus Eee PC, Acer One, Dell E or MSI Wind. Most of those are cheaper than a full-sized laptop, anyway. But no optical drive with the ultramobile PCs

I've seen XP software at BestBuy for like $100, so I might do that, but I'm also interested in learning the other operating systems.

Almost certainly, you'll be forced to pay the "Microsoft tax," regardless of what you buy. That means you'll pay for a Microsoft license with the cost of the laptop, whether you ever use Windows or not. And almost certainly, that license is going to be for Vista.

If the laptop ships with Vista Home, you're screwed. Vista Home offers no functionality whatsoever over XP and requires much more powerful hardware in order to run as fast as XP. Vista Home includes no downgrade rights to any other MS OS.

If the laptop ships with Vista Business or Ultimate, however, that Vista license includes "downgrade" rights for XP. In other words, the laptop may ship with Vista pre-installed, but you can get an XP disk (I believe at no extra charge) and do the downgrade yourself (you'll still need to get XP drivers from your hardware vendor, however). Dell will pre-install the XP downgrade for you at the factory, so that your laptop ships with XP already installed by the time you get it. Dell charges an extra $50 to do the Vista to XP downgrade for you, however. (Not worth it, in my opinion - save the money and do it yourself).

Any Linux distro would be free, of course.

 

[sheep]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Have you considered a MacBook? This exceeds your suggested requirements and runs Windows too if you need it.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook?mco=MTE3MjA

A recent survey showed the majority of peeps starting university in the fall will be doing it with a Mac.

Warranty is 1 year. Extended warranty is something I recommend for any laptop.
With the Mac look around for memory elsewhere. Be careful though.

http://www.ramjet.com/mbib.asp

Complete specs here.

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP5

Newest model may have a faster processor.

Amazon sells for less. Shop around.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0013FRA0O/macintoucwebsite/ref=nosim

 

[3nipples]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

6 pounds seems very heavy to me!

Other aspects to consider:

• Is the screen big enough?
• How long can it go between charges (and it usually goes about half what they claim)
• How hot does it get when you run it for a long time?
• How loud is the fan?
• Does the keyboard have all the characters you use?

 

[sheep]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Okay, I'll bite (you in the ass when I get to Toronto).

Show us the survey

Can't find that one but here is an interesting article.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._of_us_based_pc_retail_sales_in_february.html

...and you better call me if you are coming to Toronto. I'll get a beer out of the fridge and let it warm up for you

 

[Corny]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

^ now that is not nice.

 

[springboksfan]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Jannus, thanks for the info about the downgrade. I had no idea about any of that. Seems like just another way to screw a guy, eh?

Orion, hon,..I didn't understand anything in your first post after the average Linus user won't use more than 2GB of RAM. And no, I'm not a gamer. I think the only game I've ever used on my old laptop is RollerCoaster Tycoon 2. I'm old, whaddya want? lol

6 pounds seems very heavy to me! You're probably right. I hadn't thought of the 5-lb sack of sugar thing. Thanks, Jannus.

Other aspects to consider:

• Is the screen big enough? Not a major concern as I have a 17" LCD sitting around if I need it
• How long can it go between charges (and it usually goes about half what they claim) Good point
• How hot does it get when you run it for a long time? Another good point
• How loud is the fan? How do I find out if I'm buying online?
• Does the keyboard have all the characters you use? I'm not following here. I'd have to activate the Cyrillic keyboard software, but aside from that...?

Macs are a little pricey for me, Sheep. I'm really wanting to do this for under $800, if possible. But thanks.

Okay, so we're back down to 2G RAM, add Bluetooth, check about Downgrade to XP, N-wireless, 2.0GHz processor, possibly Core 2 Duo, under 6 lbs. Well, this should be easy! lol *searches for the "pulling hair out" emoticon*

I've looked for this Dell E, but it's apparently not being sold yet. With the micro laptops, I'm concerned that they don't seem very customizable or inexpensive. Does anyone have one of these yet?

I really appreciate everyone's patience and helpfulness. You all are awesome!

 

[springboksfan]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Oh right. I was screwing around on Dell's site just a few minutes ago and saw this:

Custom Hard Drive Partition, 20GB Primary, Remainder Secondary [add $10]

Custom Hard Drive Partition, 40GB Primary, Remainder Secondary [add $10]

Custom Hard Drive Partition, 60GB Primary, Remainder Secondary [add $10]

Custom Factory Partition, 50 percent Primary / 50 percent Secondary [add $10]

Custom Factory Partition, 80 percent Primary / 20 percent Secondary [add $10]

Is there a point to this? I mean, what's with the partition thing anyway? Is it useful? And if so, then what for?

Sorry, guys. I feel like an idiot here. Please forgive me my ignorance.

 

[Jannus]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

I've looked for this Dell E, but it's apparently not being sold yet. With the micro laptops, I'm concerned that they don't seem very customizable or inexpensive. Does anyone have one of these yet?

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The Dell E is supposed to become available in August. It looks very cool (as do most of its competitors). The Acer Aspire One just became available in some online stores only in the last couple days.

http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/06/dell-netbook-coming-in-august-sans-function-keys/

http://gizmodo.com/393815/exclusive-dell-mini-inspiron-their-first-mini-laptop

http://www.acer.com/aspireone/

The Asus Eee, Dell E, Everex Coudbook, Acer One, MSI Wind, and a few others are a whole new class of laptops which are very small and light and inexpensive (typically $400 to $700). They go by various names: "netbooks," "ultramobile PCs (UMPC)," and "ultra low cost PCs (ULCPC)." They tend to weigh less than a kilo. They do NOT include CD/DVD drives and typically have smaller screens (7" to 10") and lower screen resolutions (800 x 400 to 1024 x 600). They tend to have single-core processors which are not particularly fast, and not a great deal of RAM (512 MB to 1 GB). They are not powerful enough to run Vista, so they generally ship with XP or some version of Linux pre-installed (Microsoft has decided to continue offering XP on these type machines ONLY until at least January 2010).

The beauty of the "netbooks" is that they are cheap, small, extremely portable, and can easily do 95% of what most people would ever do in whatever location you might desire. The battery life is incredible on some of these devices, exceeding four hours in some cases! If an internet connection is available, these little devices can give hook you up, wherever you may be. Netbooks can be extremely useful, but they are not really intended to replace your primary computer, as they have limited storage, small screens, and small keyboards which may cause fatigue with extended use. Depending on your intended use for your computer, however, the netbooks may actually be a better solution than a traditional laptop.





* Please excuse a slight hijack here.* ______________________________________________

RE: Memory Greek-Speak
In general adding that extra gigabyte of ram will add another memory module. This extra memory module is tied into the power consumption of the computer. Anything in which electricity flows will by nature consume that energy. Even though this extra GB is not being used to store stuff, it is still 'on' and eating battery. So in other words unless you're going to go Vista, avoid the ram upgrade since it will not only NOT BE USED, but not installing it will also maintain longer battery life (shooting from the hip... by about 5%

I agree that 2 GB is plenty for Linux, and more can actually be a problem, since it will drain the battery faster and may simply go unused (that's why the netbooks limit RAM, of course). However, there are various ways in which extra RAM may be put to use.

Preload is a Linux app which tries to speed up the system by loading apps and data into RAM from the hard drive BEFORE you call for them. It observes how you use your system and attempts to anticipate your behavior. Preload tries to load into RAM what you need from the hard drive even before you have asked for it. Preload will attempt to optimise the use of whatever RAM is available. If you give Preload lots of RAM to work with, it will pre-load more data and apps into RAM in anticipation of your needs. Many newer computers have way more RAM installed than Linux will ever need or use, so it gets "wasted." Preload tries to put to as effective a use as possible whatever resources you system has available.

http://www.techthrob.com/tech/preload.php


Linux traditionally has been appreciated for its tight, efficient coding which allows it to run fast on minimal hardware. If the big iron hardware is nevertheless available, however, you may as well put all that power to good use!


Preload is claimed to be available via the package managers of many Linux distros (although not ubuntu). Most Debian systems (including ubuntu) have Preload in the repository, however, and can install from the shell:

sudo apt-get install preload

Of course, you can also download the tarball install it from that:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/preload



I do not mean to endorse or condemn Preload. I think it is an excellent idea, but I should warn people that I personally had some trouble with it in one of the early versions of ubuntu 8.04. I think it was ubuntu 8.04 alpha, release 5 which crashed hard when I installed Preload - Very Hard. I had to reinstall. I'm not positive it was the Preload which did it, and ubuntu was still in alpha at the time. But I've been afraid to try it again. A lot of people are agitating for including Preload (or something like it) in the base ubuntu distro.


*End of Hijack* _________________________________________________________________




BTW, Best Buy is now offering Ubuntu 8.04 retail for $20.

Why pay for a FREE OS? The money is for 60 days of support and hand-holding, if you're afraid of learning a new OS. It also comes with a printed manual.

http://blog.canonical.com/?p=18

 

[3nipples]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Is there a point to this? I mean, what's with the partition thing anyway? Is it useful? And if so, then what for?

Partitioning your drive you can make a single big drive look like 2 (or more) separate smaller drives. This allows you to organize what you put on it better, for instance, the operating system and swap space on one "drive", your documents, porn and whatever on a second partition and your backups on a third.

Other aspects to consider:

• Is the screen big enough? Not a major concern as I have a 17" LCD sitting around if I need it. Depending on the work you would do away from home, if you can't see enough of it on the screen... say you need to flip back and forth between documents or if your application has different panels on the screen... it could become frustrating when you don't have a large enough screen
• How long can it go between charges (and it usually goes about half what they claim) Good point
• How hot does it get when you run it for a long time? Another good point
• How loud is the fan? How do I find out if I'm buying online?Look for reviews or post a question on a specific model in a techie forum.
• Does the keyboard have all the characters you use? I'm not following here. I'd have to activate the Cyrillic keyboard software, but aside from that...?You may need square brackets, braces, back slashes, tildes, cirumflex etc. for the work you do, and if the character isn't marked on the keyboard you'll have to learn a series of complex key combinations to be able to insert it. Tiresome.

Macs are a little pricey for me, Sheep. I'm really wanting to do this for under $800, if possible. But thanks. ..

Does it really need to be a laptop? You know they're never as good as a desktop and they're not built to be left on for very long times (overheating). Will you be working on the road, library etc. or is a space saving option? If so, then a Mac Mini could be a very good option at under $600, using the monitor you already have. It's also smaller than a laptop, so very portable between two or more fixed destinations that have a monitor and keyboard that you can plug into, say between home and work.

 

[springboksfan]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

Okay, guys, how does this sound? It's an HP dv5z. I can't find anything of theirs with Linux, so I'd have to call them (unless one of you knows the backdoor to HP/Linux World!). I read the review on NotebookReview.com and they seemed to like it quite a lot. Of course the "Performance and Benchmarks" section was Greek to me, so I may be wrong. It's heavier than I wanted at 5.84lbs, but with this configuration, it's only $738.99 right now. It's just an option, but let me know where you think I may be erring. Thanks!!

*Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (32-bit)
*AMD Turion(TM) X2 Dual-Core Mobile Processor RM-70 (2.0GHz)
*15.4" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display (1280 x 800)
*FREE Upgrade to 2GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm) from 1GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)!!
*ATI Radeon(TM) HD 3200 Graphics
*HP Imprint Finish (Mesh) + Microphone + Webcam
*Wireless LAN 802.11a/b/g/n and Bluetooth
*No High speed 56K modem port
*FREE Upgrade to 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive from 120GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
*SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
*No TV Tuner w/remote control
*High Capacity 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
*Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
*HP Color Matching Keyboard

This is their recommended configuration, with differences marked in red. That config is $788.99:

*Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
*AMD Turion(TM) X2 Dual-Core Mobile Processor RM-70 (2.0GHz)
*15.4" diagonal WXGA High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display (1280 x 800)
*FREE Upgrade to 2GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm) from 1GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)!!
*256MB ATI Radeon(TM) HD 3450 Graphics
*HP Imprint Finish (Mesh) + Microphone + Webcam
*802.11b/g WLAN
*No High speed 56K modem port
*FREE Upgrade to 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive from 120GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
*LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-RW with Double Layer Support
*No TV Tuner w/remote control
*6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
*Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
*$25 OFF Quicken Deluxe 2008!!
*HP Color Matching Keyboard

 

[Apollo]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

If you are going to get at least 2GB of RAM, than you have no need to downgrade to XP. XP is really only necessary if you are going to be using less that 1GB of RAM. As for 2GB and the other high specs you are listing, Vista will work like a dream on your new computer.

You will get annoyed with UAC for about 3 days as your setting up your PC with software and updates. But really after a week, you will rarely see it unless you are doing something that could harm your computer.

You will find you have better functionality with Vista as well. It has built in search throughtout the entire OS. If you are in a folder, just type a few letters and your file should show up. It has superior security and protection and much more stable.

If you are working with some particularly old hardware (5 years or more) than it might not work with Vista. Than again, it shouldn't but that peeves some people too lazy to upgrade their hardware.

Anyway, don't really bother with XP if you are getting a powerful computer. There really is no need to download, and the learning curve for Vista is pretty small. The file system is structures slightly different, but essentially the same.

Plus, it is pretty.

Guess I should add. Linux is pretty good. The latest build of Ubuntu (8.10) is pretty solid, and if you really want to try something radical, you can dual boot Ubuntu with Windows. The easiest way to dual boot is using WUBI, which I believe now has 8.10 build. Wubi installs an installer in Windows, and sets up the partition and Ubuntu operating system for you in dual boot. If you happen to not like Linux. You can simply unistall it in Windows.

Installing programs might be a little confusing in Ubuntu, and some other things for that matter, but it has a lot of open source software at it's disposal.

 

[Jannus]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

I can't find anything of theirs with Linux, so I'd have to call them (unless one of you knows the backdoor to HP/Linux World!).

HP does not offer Linux pre-installed. It doesn't matter what computer you buy, you'll need to pay for a Windows license - it's mandatory. And even if you call HP, they won't tell you whether or not the dv5z will run Linux - that would violate their marketing agreement with Microsoft.

That said, it is almost certain that the hardware will support Linux (especially the ATI graphics - ATI is very Linux friendly) with the possible exception of the wireless LAN card. Laptop LAN cards are notoriously proprietary and closed-source. If no Linux driver happens to be available, there are ways of getting Windows drivers to work in Linux.

 

[springboksfan]

Re: What does this mean? (Laptop shopping question

So wait. That build got the Seal of Approval? Sweet!! You guys are awesome!

Unfortunately, I won't be able to purchase until 20 Aug, but I'll be back when it arrives!

Thank you so much for all the help. I really appreciate you all!!