Ya, another seeking advise question

[DrkShadow]

I have been lurking on here for awhile and I'm really glad to have found such a great forum. I've sent a few replies but this is my first thread here and I feel the need to ask for some opinions. I think I already know the answer but sometimes its nice to hear some opinions to make sure I'm thinking with the right head.

I'm 32 and work in an MIS dept. I'm still fairly closted, out to parents and brother who are being supportive of me. I'm just coming out slowly but cautiously.

I work in the server group and have slowly become good friends with someone that moved into the desktop support group about a year ago. Although we don't directly work together, we have cubes almost next to each other and almost always go out to the porch to share a smoke.

We go 4-wheeling, fishing, etc. together more and more frequently. Heck, I even broke my collar bone with him when I rolled the damn 4-wheeler due to my lack of experience. He helped me to ER, etc, etc. Where my question comes in is here.
Since I'm gay and don't ever talk about dating girls, etc. he asked me one day when the two of us were going to lunch, do you like girls? you don't talk about them much. I wish I would have answered him honestly then when the door was wide open but I pussed out and dodged the question or was not honest with him. That was several months ago now. I want to tell him, the next time we have some privacy outside of the office, that I was not honest with him. BUT, in the back of my mind I must admit I have another motive as well. I'm growing to like him as more then a friend but I'm trying to keep that part out, for now at least.

I've never been good at figuring out if someone is just being friendly or being cautious like me. It's like this week, he's been asked to two different parties from other girls in the office. He mentioned to me, they said I can bring someone, do you want to go? Of course I said yes. This also happen for a Xmas party last year.

He is fun to be around and when we went fishing last weekend he mentioned to me I'm a best bud. He's said this once before when we went to the lake over memorial weekend and shared a cabin, went fishing, swimming, beer, beer. Nothing sexual happened of course. One thing did happen at the lake that even my super straight brother asked me about. I was still swimming when I saw my buddy coming back into the water with 2 smokes in his mouth. He brought one out to me. My brothers girlfriend even asked him, are they you know? My brother just said, I have no idea, protecting my privacy.

It's just sometimes I get the feeling he is putting out somewhat of a front, talking about girls, but I don't really see him dating, etc. Seems more like talk. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want too because I'm thinking with both heads at times.

I think there's a question in here somewhere. I'm considering at least coming out of the closet to him after the party tomorrow depending on how things go. I think I'll just simply say, I was not competely truthful to you about a question you asked me a while ago, tell him the question he asked and simply answer it honestly. I do feel like I should tell him though, I'm not telling you this now for any other reason except I wanted to come clean and let him know I value our friendship. Of course I want to say I like him, but feel I should see how he takes this information and maybe go from there.

What do you think? Sorry for being so long winded

 

[halubtsi]

Well, you seem to already know the answer to your question. But since you'd like some opinions on the matter, here's my take...

There's no harm in being cautious as you make your first steps out of the closet. I was overly cautious at first and then finally, I just opened the dam, so to speak. I'm still "cautious" in that I don't tell everyone that I'm gay, since that would qualify me as a "yelling from the rooftops" kind of guy. You seem to be telling people whom you can trust, and I think that's great.

Though you weren't forthcoming with your friend when he asked you a few months ago, I can empathise with your situation. The one friend that did ask me, I lied to and didn't set the record straight, (no pun intended) until 3 years later. And I was friends with this girl for 4 years when she asked me. You can always say that you weren't comfortable in telling him because the friendship was still budding and you hadn't reached a certain level of trust yet. You said that only your parents and brother know? So essentially, he'll be the first non-relative who you'll be telling. It's a big step...I did it the same way you did...family first.

You're right in ommitting the attraction part from this coming out. It's hard enough to come out, let alone the pressures of telling someone that you're interested in more than just friendship. So, I would suggest you tell him that you're gay and leave the "I like you more than a friend" speech for a future date. However, you'll need to play this one by ear. If after you tell him you're gay and he starts telling you that he has feelings for you, obviously, go ahead and tell him that you feel the same way.

Just don't go in with any expectations of a mutual coming out on his part. Like I told a friend, 'coming out' is not a means to an end, but an end in and of itself. Good luck.

 

[sissyboy]

Here's my take on it. Be honest with him about your sexuality, it's a gamble but if he's really your friend it won't matter. Good friends are nearly as good as money in the bank.

As far as wanting to be more than friends, I don't know about that for one reason.You work with him. Whether or not he's into you as more than a friend, it's just not smart. Workplace romances are never a good idea.It has the potential to turn ugly and make both of you look bad.I had it happen to me. He dumped me and then accused me of sexual harassment. I was forced out at work and it ended up costing him a job and costing me my privacy.That was nearly 20 years ago and it's a mistake I will never make again.

Best of luck to you.

 

[tonyboy]

My vote is tell him first chance you get.
You guys are obiously buds. Whether he is gay or not, the fact that he asked you about not talking about girls, but continued to share other activites with you, means that he must want to contiune as friends. Even if nothing else happens. Got to keep up the friendship man. You must like to share in the activites you two share, whether he's gay or not. Sounds like you've me a good bud, one that wants to have a friendship with you.
Hope it turns out otherwise for you man. Even if not, looks as if you've got the makings of a good and close friend here.
Hope you share the outcome of this whole scene man. Very interesting and I wish the best to you.

 

[jaysizzles]

Since you've known him for quite sometime now and you are in the process of coming out...I think it's time to be honest with him...at least of who you are. Besides, one of you has to make the first move/step.

The basis of true friendships and relationships is honesty and trust. You give that part of yourself to him...sincerely...he'll take your words seriously and to heart. Try and express the same sentiments you described in your post of your curiosity, regret for not being forthcoming, angst, etc...if you decide to approach him. No need to to ask him to be likewise upfront with you on himself...perhaps it will open the door...probably not though. At least he will know who you are...stress foremost how you value his friendship...and if the feelings are mutual, that you'd be receptive. You may not get the answer you want...but I doubt he'll let you down.

 

[DrkShadow]

Thanks everyone. I'll let you know how it goes. Were not going out to the party tonight but he's gonna go with me to my bro's bachelor party tomorrow eve. Hopefully afterwards I'll get to talk with him.

 

[DrkShadow]

I had to send my buddy a text msg letting him know I'd call him tomorrow afternoon about the details of the party, etc. I did say I wanted to talk with him afterwards about something. Of course he called a minute later. We chatted a bit about misc crap and then he mentioned, you wanted to talk about something? I said yea, it's something I've been meaning to talk with you about but I'd rather do it in person. He said your kinda freaking me out now. I just said, no worries man, you asked me a question a while ago and I never really answered you. I just wanted to tell him that so he's got a little bit of time to think about it. He's a smart guy, I think he will figure it out but at least he won't be overly suprised tomorrow. Hope he takes it well. I already lost a good friend early this year because of a similar situation that I did not handle well. At least I learn something from it. Don't tell a good friend that is a married southern baptist that your gay and you like them a lot. WTF was I thinking. Live and learn I guess.

Now if I can just figure out how not to fall for my good friends I'll be doing good. Its like when I get close to a friend, I want to sexualize the friendship. I try and think where that comes from, my only guess is that it has to do with a childhood sexual trama I went through when I was around 5 or 6.

 

[mexamor]

sexual trauma often causes sexualization of relationships. i say this from experience.

 

[DrkShadow]

Recommend any good books on the subject?

 

[Eagle653]

I'm anxious to know how things go. Good luck with this!

 

[DrkShadow]

I'm anxious to know how things go. Good luck with this!

Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes. I leave soon and I'm already a bit nervous. After a few drinks tonight, I'll get er done.

 

[Soilwork]

considering the fact that he just kinda off-handedly asked you if you were gay like it wasn't a big deal to him either way, and continues to hang out with you, I'm going to say it's probably not anything you need to worry about.

He might be pissed that you lied to him, but you may as well tell him straight up that you did it and you wanna come clean. He'll probably understand and it'll be over that fast.

 

[mexamor]

Miguel's recomendations for men/boys victims of sexual abuse:
Mic Hunter - Abused Boys : The Neglected Victims of Sexual Abuse
Michel Dorais - Don't Tell: The Sexual Abuse of Boys
both of these books are excellent but different. There is not a whole lot for us guys. These are highly recomended books. Dorais is French Canadian and the book is translated, you can probably get it in French in Canada if you are so inclined. I suggest you buy and read both books as they are helpful together. Let me know if you are interested in finding group therapy in your area, I'll see what I can find for you.

 

[mexamor]

If you ever need to talk to clear your head just email me.

 

[DrkShadow]

Thanks mexamor, I'll have to check out the books. I appreciate it!

Well, things went actually how I excepted. We talked for about an hour. He was glad I told him since he was wondering about that. I made it clear that I was telling him because he was a good friend, I wanted to be honest and I'd like it to stay that way. He was cool with it. He did say he would feel somewhat uncomfortable if I came out completely at work. He has had some bad experiences in the past with gay people hitting on him when he made it clear he was not like that.

It was a pretty good talk. He said I was a good friend. He asked some general questions about being gay, etc. and I think I did a pretty good job answering him. I couldn't help squeezing out a tear or two. He is actually the 2nd friend I told and it was a bit easier this time. I'm still working on accepting the things I just can't change no matter how hard I try. Of course I wish he
had similar feelings, but at least I think this may strenghten our friendship.

I hope to talk with him on the phone for a few minutes tonight, as I go back to surgery tomorrow to replace my broken collarbone plate.

 

[DrkShadow]

I know this is an old thread but I really feel the need to talk this evening.

I really don't know where to begin. I feel dejavue. I'm still good friends with whom I've talked about in this thread. The problem is I've grown to like this guy so much, it consumes way too much of my daily thoughts. He's smart, good looking and I really enjoy being around him.

The reason I say I've been through this before, is I was way to honest with someone in my department in regards to my feelings for them (married southern baptist. WTF was I thinking). Needless to say, it ruined that friendship and he's now working elsewhere. I think I was most at fault looking back because I really could not accept reality. I was trying to salvage our friendship until he lost his patience and went to HR about everything I shared with him. I was never so hurt in all my life that day. I'm not one to trust people easily because of my not so great up-bringing.

Now I feel like I'm somehow repeating things with my new friend. I get in my moods at work when I rather talk to nobody, just do my work, listen to music and pitty my life.

He asked why am I so down last Friday. Since he knows I'm gay, I told him that I'm tired of being alone and I'm trying to accept things I feel I can not change. He said he's accepted he will probably be alone himself. He had a gf that cheated on him a few years ago and really hurt him. He did mention that I break the stereotype and If I ever needed to talk, just let him know.

I've been to a therapyst several times but I just feel that I've gained nothing from the expense$. I continue to see my psychologyst and take meds for my depression. I am just so tired of never being happy with anything that sometimes it takes all my strength to make it through a day.

I really want to tell him I'm having a difficult time lately in regards to my feelings for him, but because of the experience I had early this year with my other friend, I am truly afraid of loosing my last good friend. I don't want him to completely distance himself from me like my last friend.

Since I felt so bad last night, I wrote a letter to him that I intended not to give him. It did help me feel a bit better just writing out how I felt. Now I really want to give it to him, but I'm really confused about what to do.

What are your thoughts on this? I could really use some guidence here.

 

[Riverrick]

Post your letter here. That may help you even more. Its not an uncommon occurence in this forum.

If you do tell him how you feel, you have to remember that this is your problem, not his. He can't solve it for you.

What is it you want from him?

 

[DrkShadow]

I know it really is my problem. But I start to think, maybe he is bi or something.

Here is my letter. I couldn't help but shed a few tears last night when I wrote it.

Friendsname,

I know, you’re probably like a letter? Oh no, WTF?

Well, when we had a brief chat the other day and I said what was bothering me, I didn’t exactly say everything I wanted too. The last thing I wanted to do is say too much. I already lost one good friend this year because I might have been way too open and honest. I do not merely think of you Friendsname as just a buddy to go fishing and riding with. I consider you a great friend!

I am not a person that trusts anyone all that easily, and with the shit I went through with Mark, it surely didn’t help things any in that area. Let me share a bit of my past with you first to help you understand where I am coming from. I trust you in sharing this with you, but I am overly worried it could possibly change things in a negative way.

I think I briefly mentioned before that I don’t have too many good memories when I think of my childhood. From my early memories, all I can remember is yelling, screaming, violence and fear from the fighting between my drunken father, my mom and brother. Luckily the worst physical thing that happened to me was having my femur broken when I was around 3 or 4 by good ole Dad. I can somewhat relate to kids who grow up without a father, since mine was never there emotionally, even to this day. Luckily he has been sober for a while now.

If that were not enough to want to escape from, there was also some sexual abuse when I was fairly young from my brother. Although at that age, you don’t think of it as a form of abuse until you get older. I never gave it much thought, except when I over analyze why I’m attracted to certain guys but no girls. Although I feel there can be many causes for such same sex feelings, I don’t think ones up-bringing really has much too do with it. It can be somewhat of a, for the lack of a better phrase, a mind fuck though. On a strange positive side, being some what introverted, I put a lot of my time and energy into computers, thus learning a lot on my own. Computers are easy to figure out, people are not.

Enough of the past, I’ll get to the reason I wrote this blasted letter. I can’t help but feel like a puss for not just talking to you about this face to face, but I think I word things better by having more time (maybe too much) to think about what I want to say. You’re a smart guy, so you probably already know where I’m going with this.

Have you ever been in the situation with a friend where you started to have stronger then normal feelings for them? I’m not sure if a crush is a better term to use here. Believe me when I say it is not much fun. I think you can understand why I would not share this very easily, especially being in this situation with you now. Before you feel too uncomfortable now, my intention is not for this to sound like a proposition, but to be completely open and honest with you. I know you don’t have those type of feelings.
The last thing in the world I want to happen is to ruin the friendship we have now. Buddies are easy to make, but good friendships are harder to come by these days.

So, I hope I have not completely fucked things up now. I original wrote this letter more for myself and not to actually deliver it to you, but after more thought, I decided too. I also hope you feel you can trust me too if you ever wanted to talk about anything.

Your Friend,

Richard

 

[Riverrick]

Wow. What a letter. You really shared a lot.

You had some really terrible experiences as a child. Its really sad for me to read your letter. But I guess that's not what this thread is about.

I realize that you wrote this with the intention not to send it. It sounds like you need to know his sexuality for sure, without a doubt in order to get some peace. So maybe you should just ask him that first. Is he Bi? Or is he straight? If he's bi, launch into your feelings and see where he is.

If he's straight, can you accept that and move on without telling him more?

 

[slobone]

Sounds like writing that letter really helped you to express what you're feeling. But I usually think it's better not to actually send letters like that. If you do, I think your friend will have a tough time knowing how to deal with it.

As for your attraction to him: It's been over two months since you came out to him. From everything you've said, my guess would be that he's straight. And if he was physically attracted to you, it seems like he would have let you know in some way by now. Since he hasn't, your best bet is to assume that the feelings are just not there on his side.

Only you can decide whether you can handle being "just friends" with him. But if you go on hoping for something that's probably not going to happen, I think it will only make you more and more unhappy. And that's not what you need right now.

I think you should be open to the possibility of giving counselling another shot. Talk therapy might really help you sort out your feelings and deal with everything that's going on.

Just because you had a so-so experience with one therapist, doesn't mean there isn't somebody out there who could really help you. Sometimes people have to go through several therapists before they find one they click with.

Keep us posted on what happens.