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1 In Every 100 Americans Now Behind Bars

I think the culprit is the fact that we have a for-profit prison industry in this country. Having fewer people in prison isn't really to their benefit, is it? And people still believe that harsh penalties are a good idea, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I agree with you Críostóir, this is a major driving force behind this statistic. Once prisons were called and industry, they became part of local economies, and harder to do without in local budgets the incarceration rates began to climb.

Additionally, as our public education systems fail, it leaves more and more poorly educated people struggling to survive in a society that only values money. When an individual can't get a job that will support him and his family, because the education system failed him, then he is more likely to turn to crime for survival.

This may sound like conspiracy theory, but there is too much evidence that this has been planned for a long time. It does two things.

1. It allows less money to be spent on educating the poor, and pretty much guarantees: A. a low paid worker force, and B. creates a criminal cast to fill the cells of the prison industry.

2. It feeds the local economy with a stimulus package of Federal and local funds to incarcerate people for less violent crimes, (a three strikes loser may only have been caught stealing food a third time to be sentenced to life).

The road out of this Law and Order mess, is via better education. Hopefully the next president will do something about getting rid of the "No Child Left Behind" Stupidity and get educators and education back on track. When I was teaching at the college level before retiring 4 years ago, I was astonished by how many of my students could not read or comprehend beyond the 2nd or 3rd grade. I count that as a failure of education. I saw these students given student loans to learn a skill that supposedly would land them well paying jobs, but then the school gave them less than was necessary to earn that job, but left them with massive loans to pay off after graduating. I deem this a failure of education, and a failure of government, but to hear the people running the school and the programs, it was not their fault the students were too ignorant to get work with their degrees.

We've allowed our higher educational systems to be taken over by frauds that promise good paying jobs, while assisting the government in signing them to student loans that cripple them for life. The students find themselves on a slippery slope at the beginning of their adult life, with no real skills that would allow them to get ahead. Some of those students will eventually turn to crime. Selling drugs is the usual easy way out for many of these people caught in this trap, and eventually they run afoul of law enforcement.

But if the Government was doing it's primary function of protecting our borders we would not have drug sellers and users to throw into prisons. If this is a conspiracy, it is a well planned one. It takes eager young Americans and puts them on a slide to ruin so they never really have a chance to be anything other than what the government has planned for them. What better way to remove unwanted people from the job market, and tax rolls for long periods of time, teach them better criminal skills, than survival skills and pretty much guarantee they will become recidivists and keep working like the cog in the wheel the government wants them to be.

After being out of the US for 4 years, I'm back right now, and I'm appalled with the amount of crime even in the local rural area in which I am staying currently. Bank robberies weekly, sometimes twice or three times a week. Murders in robberies of businesses, Murders from home invasions with guns, stolen cars, stolen identities, and on and on. In Colombia where I retired to, education is paramount, and within walking distance of my home there, you will find at least 12 universities, and more throughout the city, and almost every child aspires to a higher education. Crime is not rampant in Colombia as our government would have us believe. Not that it doesn't exist, but it is nowhere near the levels it is here in America. In four years, I have not heard of a single bank robbery, and only one business robbery, which took place in a rural village of a bar being run by two young women alone who were not very aware of security.

Until the people realize our problem stems from lack of serious education, and stop demanding more and tougher laws against crime, and begins to support more legitimate education reforms, this will only get worse. In reality, the way it is now, the real criminals are running the systems for higher education and our prisons. It is rampant criminal capitalism creating this mess.

So if this is a conspiracy, it has been well planned, and not a single politician including the Democrats have spoken out against it. Apparently, Americans like it the way it is, law and order and public safety. Unfortunately they have neither because of this situation, and a government too stupid to recognize the real problem causing it.

If even a quarter of the funds spent on prisons and the "Justice" industry, were earmarked for education reforms, we'd see a drop in crime very quickly. If half of what is spent on prisons and the "Justice" industry, was redirected to education, we would see America return to the foreground of leadership in the world. We'd become the country we think we are again.
 
the problem is our justice system has gone from believing in rehabalitation to vengence. While not all criminals can be rehabilated our theory now is just lock them up and throw away the key while forgetting that most of them will be getting out someday. Doing nothing to address their issues has simply increased the recdvism rate while doing nothing to impact crime rates
 
If we would stop punishing people for victimless crimes like simple drug use, possession, and prostitution, there would be far fewer in prison.

Another thing we could do is to level huge fines on "white collar" crimes.

Why should Martha Stewart have to serve time, when we could have fined her thousands, or millions, of dollars?
 
If we would stop punishing people for victimless crimes like simple drug use, possession, and prostitution, there would be far fewer in prison.

I half-agree with that statement...At least.

'Simple' drug use, possession and prostitution should not result in jail time particularly as the situation that led to drug use, possession and prostitution generally is aggravated with a criminal conviction complicating things.

The part I disagree with is the description of these crimes as "victimless"...They aren't by a long shot. Often the perpetrator and the victim are one in the same. Friends, families, and especially children are also often vicitimized.

Drug use, prostitution and possession also very often lead to other related and more serious crimes such as assault, armed robberies and murder.

Rehab may not have a good first-time sucess rate but it has a higher probability of lowering crime rates than just locking some one up with hardened felons.
 
Drug use, prostitution and possession also very often lead to other related and more serious crimes such as assault, armed robberies and murder.

Ah. But if these things weren't "illegal", they might not lead to these other crimes.
 
2 changes that I would make would be to legalize prostitution (requiring regular health checkups) and decriminalize marajuana. I would not use either but we waste so much money on prosecuting for these... it is completely ridiculous.

(ooopss....I guess I should have read the above posts prior to posting)

well...of course....I would also legalize gay marriage.
 
metta, love you for agreeing. (*8*)

Such changes would free our police to pursue more serious crimes.
 
metta, love you for agreeing. (*8*)

Such changes would free our police to pursue more serious crimes.

I remember looking at the local statistics of what kind of calls the police were taking in the city that I live in and most of them had to do with marajuana. I could not believe the numbers. What a waste of police resources, not to mention having to put all that through the legal system.
 
Other than those unjustly convicted (which is actually a very small percentage; most criminals are caught in the act or with the goods, as it were) exactly which ones would you want released, if you knew they were going to live next door to you?

I think you need to get a more informed grasp of the "justice" system. One person can do something wrong, and the police arrest all sorts of bystanders who had nothing to do with the events.
In prisons, the percentage of inmates who are there unjustly is small. In jails, however, an unpublished study by a major newspaper found that as high as one in four are totally innocent -- but due to draconian mandatory sentences and over-charging, people take a plea bargain and probation. One of the worst terrors to today's people, sex crimes, was found to have a rate of one in five totally innocent, and a large portion of the rest nothing but sex between bf/gf which was totally consensual (frustratingly, I wasn't shown any figures on bf/bf, but it's there as well).

Well, it's better than having to support them on welfare. At least they get a roof over their head, food, toileting and excercise whilst they're inside. At least you know how your money is being spent. Welfare for these convicted criminals would be a waste of public taxes because they'd just spend it on guns, booze and drugs. At least inside, you know they're looked after. That's what the American concern for its citizens should mean, care with concern.

There's another misconception about "criminals" and prisons. The majority of those in prison have never touched a gun. Booze is a far more accurate accusation, and represents a more dangerous portion of the population. Most drug users have never posed a danger to anyone (including themselves), nor does their use aggravate violent tendencies. Alcohol, OTOH... well, that's why there is an occupation called "bouncer".

I'm not sure what our 'fair share' is but murder rates are generally not compared by absolute totals, rather Homicide rates are typically quoted as per 100,000 people per year. The 10-year average homicide rates (1987-1996) for Canada averaged 2.3 and for the United States it averaged 8.8.

A hell of a difference

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000, per year) between 1990 and 1995...Canada about 4, the USA 14 . These include murder, suicide, 'self defence' and accidental

Here's an interesting aspect: if you subtract gang violence and other criminals shooting criminals, the murder rates by firearm in the two countries are roughly the same.
Another interesting aspect is that some gangs are becoming "normalized" -- giving up violence except in self-defense, policing their turfs/communities against crime, even aiding residents in need and requiring young members to finish school. That's a trend I never would have foreseen, but it's surely a positive one.

'Simple' drug use, possession and prostitution should not result in jail time particularly as the situation that led to drug use, possession and prostitution generally is aggravated with a criminal conviction complicating things.

The part I disagree with is the description of these crimes as "victimless"...They aren't by a long shot. Often the perpetrator and the victim are one in the same. Friends, families, and especially children are also often vicitimized.

Drug use, prostitution and possession also very often lead to other related and more serious crimes such as assault, armed robberies and murder.

Rehab may not have a good first-time sucess rate but it has a higher probability of lowering crime rates than just locking some one up with hardened felons.

You should read Jacob Sullum's Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use. Using the government's own figures, he shows how we've been consistently lied to about the impact of drugs. The truth is that the whole so-called "War On Drugs" has become an industry the sole function of which is to generate crime so police and others can increase their prestige and appearance of being needed, and give attorneys an avenue into political careers.

Rehab has a low success rate for one simple reason: people don't tend to "rehab" from things they enjoy which don't hurt anyone. You might as well try to "rehab" people from chocolate chip cookies.

Ah. But if these things weren't "illegal", they might not lead to these other crimes.

Precisely. It's a simple matter of economics: legalize the substance and watch the price drop by at least 2/3. Estimates regularly put the price of a typical dose of marijuana as less than that of a cup of coffee, perhaps on par with a can of pop or beer.
At that point, it wouldn't be necessary to steal in order to afford the stuff. Nor would it be profitable enough for large drug rings.

The sad truth of the matter is that our "War On Drugs" created the drug lords in South America and has funded terrorists around the world, has created this symptom of a disease with which we have infected ourselves. We are our own worst enemy.
 
Our American solution is to give guns to one and all.
On the other side we incarcerate one and all.

To do this we tax one and all.
and we put at risk in our free country one and all.

One and all must be confused by this kind of open
society and wonder when we will wake up from the nightmare?

Shep+
 
Another statistic I read recently (can't remember where, I posted it on another thread a while back though) is that 20% of Americans are now employed in the security industry (from bouncers through prison guards and cops to Admirals).

American's used to make stuff, now they guard it.
 
WOW...

I just stumbled across this thread...

Now for MY 2 cents!!!

1 -- We have OVERZEALOUS PROSECUTORS that will do ANYTHING to win their case...

2 -- We need to get RID of MANDATORY MINIMUMS!!! It takes the levelheadedness out of the JUDGE -- WHO IS THERE to be LEVELHEADED...

3 -- STOP IMPRISONING PEOPLE for VICTIMLESS CRIMES (already addressed)...

4 -- STOP IMPRISONING PEOPLE for ACCIDENTS -- this is INSANE -- I drive through most of the states in this country -- and there are MANY that have signs SPELLING OUT the fact that if you KILL someone in an ACCIDENT -- you GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL for x amount of years -- As far as I CAN RECALL -- an accident is an accident -- it WASN'T intentional -- and I'm sure the guilty party feels AWFUL about it -- we had a case near our home where a young man around 28 (husband and father or 2) was sent to PRISON for 20 YEARS because he crossed the line and the result was 3 fatalities...

Our society HAS TO CHANGE...

This is CRAZY...

I can HARDLY BELIEVE 1 out of 100...

:confused::confused::confused:
 
Here's an interesting aspect: if you subtract gang violence and other criminals shooting criminals, the murder rates by firearm in the two countries are roughly the same.

I'm almost totally sure that the above statement is false. I don't think it has even a statistically significant effect on the numbers. Perhaps you could cite your source... or are you just speculating? What do you think you know about the gang violence issue in major Canadian cites? (where most homicides occur)

The truth is that the whole so-called "War On Drugs" has become an industry the sole function of which is to generate crime so police and others can increase their prestige and appearance of being needed, and give attorneys an avenue into political careers.

Again, I don't buy it. And by the way, I'm a second year MSW student so I have done my fair share of reading and research on violent crime, drug use and the so called 'war on drugs'. (Mostly a war on addicts IMO) And one book ( or even 50) is not a concusses or even compelling evidence of anything!

Rehab has a low success rate for one simple reason: people don't tend to "rehab" from things they enjoy which don't hurt anyone. .

Totally false, without a doubt and 100% I am currently doing a placement in a rehab facility (of sorts) ...My third BTW. Most people are in rehab because they were ordered to do so by the justice system (or face jail time) or they have seriously fucked up their lives and are trying not to end up dead or in and out of jail for the rest of their lives. Quite a few are trying to regain custody of their kids...

The reason rehab has a reputation for a lack of absolute success is that addiction can not be cured, only managed. (with rare exceptions - lobotomies have shown some promise as a "cure") Rehab is a place for people to regain focus and control so they can BEGIN to tackle their addiction while clean and sober. It is also a way to introduce people to coping skills and ongoing resources they can't get when they are trashed.

It's a simple matter of economics: legalize the substance and watch the price drop by at least 2/3. Estimates regularly put the price of a typical dose of marijuana as less than that of a cup of coffee, perhaps on par with a can of pop or beer.
At that point, it wouldn't be necessary to steal in order to afford the stuff. Nor would it be profitable enough for large drug rings..

Again, I disagree. Booze is perfectly legal and look at all the crime and violence (and a death toll on a massive scale from accidents, misadventure and disease associated with drinking!) Cigarettes are also perfectly legal and yet many organized crime rings profit tremendously from illegal tobacco sales. (Again, a HUGE death toll) Even if pot were free an you planted hedges of it on every major street it would still result in crime, death and ruined lives.
 
Solution:

Send all prisoners to Iraq. If they want to kill, they can do it to their heart's content over there.

I thought you were in Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people and rebuild their society.:confused:

How would unleashing 100's of thousands of rapists, child molesters, murders and junkies and arming them meet your stated objective?:p
 
Solution:

Send all prisoners to Iraq. If they want to kill, they can do it to their heart's content over there. We can bring our boys home and let them have fun. This way, they won't be a tax burden to us any more and they get to do what they want to do.

I've heard that a LOT of young offenders have the CHOICE of JAIL or ENLISTMENT...

Not sure if its entirely true though...

:confused::confused::confused:
 
As for guns, (mentioned earlier) we need to curb illegal guns. Statistics show that gun crimes are not committed by lawful gun owners.

Oh...Really???

Legally owned firearms in the US: For every ONE time a gun in the home was used in a self-defence or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides .

It would appear that, rather than being used for defence, most of these weapons inflict injuries on the owners and their families.

My figues can be confirmed as accurate easily enough by anyone who can type "google-dot-com"... My sources are text books so no links...Sorry. most of the figues come from the CDC thus pretty 'butllet proof'.

This one should be an eye-opener: More than half of those killed by firearms in New York City between 1990 and 1998 tested positive for drugs.

There is a positive correlation between homicide rates and availability of guns in developed nations. (Peer reviewed studies too numerous to mention.) Guess which developed nation has the most guns?

Ad point: When one criminal shoots another it's still a homicide...Thus a crime. Criminals legally obtain firearms as well.
 
I remember looking at the local statistics of what kind of calls the police were taking in the city that I live in and most of them had to do with marajuana. I could not believe the numbers. What a waste of police resources, not to mention having to put all that through the legal system.

The most recent "police blotter" I saw in my local newspaper included a total of six infractions:

One DUI (Of course, driving drunk is a major menace, and kills thousands per year)
One home burglary
FOUR arrests for possession of illegal drugs and/or paraphernalia

The entire standard of living of this country is being undermined, at least to a degree, by this stupid War On Drugs, which has never gone away despite what some people want us to think.

I remember seeing that somebody in Peoria had their entire small-airplane rental business [STRIKE]seized[/STRIKE] STOLEN by the government because, unknown to the owner, somebody who rented one of the planes used the flight to deliver drugs.
 
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