2014 CIA-organized Coup in Ukraine [SPLIT]

[rareboy]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

There was no US-organized coup in 2014? Really? Wikipedia, right?

https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in...asco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/
https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy#
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/01/14/will-senate-confirm-coup-plotter-victoria-nuland

I could post a hundred more articles discussing the 2014 coup, and a hundred more discussing the Nazis the West has allied with, but I'll bet you won't read any of them. Your history claims are fraud, rareboy. Which is why you still have not provided one source.

The 'tin foil hat' comment is amazingly creative. Did you make that up yourself, or is that just part of your programming to throw that out when you have nothing real to share and you want to shut down the discussion?

Maybe you don't understand what NATO is. It's a club that countries can join if their politicians want to betray their own citizens and pledge absolute loyalty to the Anglo-American empire, meaning to Britain and the US. NATO doesn't make a decision to invade anyone; Britain and the US do, and the rest of NATO follows along, takes the bribes, hosts military bases, and supports the coups and the killing all over the globe. [Text: Removed]

I'll bet you could post 100 more opinion pieces that loudly start out with a claim that there was a US organized coup and then not provide anything factual to back it up. The fact that the US met with Euromaiden supporters and looked beyond a Yanukovich government means nothing.

The tens of thousands who turned out against Yanukovych were not organized by the US. OR Nazis.

[Text: Removed] Again, how many countries has NATO invaded since being formed in 1949 to protect partners against Soviet invasion? How many countries has the Soviet Union and Russian Federation invaded since 1949?

And it doesn't change the crux of this thread. RuZZia launched an illegal invasion of a neighbouring state and for 162 days has been bombing and shelling civilian targets, destroying cities, committing war crime upon war crime in front of our eyes. They didn't invade because of 2014...they already stole the Crimean peninsula. They didn't invade because of 'Nazis'. How could they? The real fascist state is RuZZia? They didn't invade to 'liberate' Donbas. They moved in to take the entire country by force in order to exterminate Ukrainians (like the Muscovites have tried to do again and again) and to steal one of the richest prizes in eastern europe in order to gain control of minerals, oil, gas and agriculture. Look at what they are doing in the open...destroying Ukrainian civil infrastructure...stealing children in order to RuZZify them. Literally burning any Ukrainian books. Literally stealing grain and steel to sell abroad. They talk openly about their real aims here. Genocide and imperial expansion in order to recreate the Soviet Union 2.0.

This is what is happening now.

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[rareboy]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

Ukraine has ordered the evacuation of people from war areas from the outset. 10 million people have effectively been sent out of the country tp safety.

This week they are still trying to evacuate 200,000 civilians from Donbas.

From the beginning, RuZZia has actually tried to prevent civilians from leaving urban areas and place their military and materiel in civilian residential areas.

So I don't know what point you or Amnesty is trying to make here.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

BTW Also Amnesty International.

Amnesty International on history: "In the summer of 1944, the Poles committed a grave war crime when rising up against the Wehrmacht inside of Warsaw city limits."

 

[rareboy]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

By the way:


Today's report by Amnesty was NOT prepared by Amnesty UKR. Data used by Amnesty Intl did not come not from Amnesty Ukraine, but from some international researchers.

So likely RuZZian plants.

Figures.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

There was no US-organized coup in 2014? Really? Wikipedia, right?

https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in...asco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/
https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy#
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/01/14/will-senate-confirm-coup-plotter-victoria-nuland

I could post a hundred more articles discussing the 2014 coup, and a hundred more discussing the Nazis the West has allied with, but I'll bet you won't read any of them. Your history claims are fraud, rareboy. Which is why you still have not provided one source.

The 'tin foil hat' comment is amazingly creative. Did you make that up yourself, or is that just part of your programming to throw that out when you have nothing real to share and you want to shut down the discussion?

Maybe you don't understand what NATO is. It's a club that countries can join if their politicians want to betray their own citizens and pledge absolute loyalty to the Anglo-American empire, meaning to Britain and the US. NATO doesn't make a decision to invade anyone; Britain and the US do, and the rest of NATO follows along, takes the bribes, hosts military bases, and supports the coups and the killing all over the globe. [Text: Removed]

First article: not credible, given that it thinks an invasion constitutes a "civil war".
Second article: so-so; it tries to make the case for U.S. meddling but the U.S. was just a follower who supported the anti-Russia protests
Third article: Worth a read -- it documents that there were in fact Nazis involved in the overthrow of Yanukovich, while telling of the legal process that removed him, and how once the protests had begun every right-wing party in the country jumped in and promoted violence. It describes Washington's interference as more ignorant than malicious. It doesn't let the Russians off the hook, either, noting their illegal interference and basic theft of the Crimea. It also tells the name that Ukrainians use for this: the "Revolution of Dignity"
Fourth article: Interessting; it pivots on the details of how Yanukovich was ousted -- if it was by the government, then the constitution was ignored; if Yanukovich resigned, it was legit. Reading between the lines, it portrays the U.S. not as stirring things up but opportunistically hopping on a movement to try to steer it (with major effect).
Fifth article: Whoa -- it basically endorses a right of great powers to carve up the world into spheres of influence and thus dominate other countries for their own self-interest! Thus suggesting that the West allow Russia to dominate other nations, violating their sovereignty. It's couched in terms of getting the West to "understand" Russia, but what it's being asked to do, then, is to affirm that Russia gets to build its empire.
Sixth article: Worth a read -- it does give Ukrainian perspective on what definitely looked like U.S. support for Nazi organizations including in the government, plus a good discussion of Russia and its own fascist elements, then ends with a warning of how government in the U.S. has accrued more and more authority by using crises like these.
Seventh article: Worth a read; it has some extremely useful information about someone who thoroughly messed up Obama's foreign policy and was nominated by President Biden to a position where she can do even more damage. It's definitely slanted, pointing out bad American behavior and totally ignoring Putin's manipulation of affairs in Ukraine that were themselves acts of war before the invasion.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

I'll bet you could post 100 more opinion pieces that loudly start out with a claim that there was a US organized coup and then not provide anything factual to back it up. The fact that the US met with Euromaiden supporters and looked beyond a Yanukovich government means nothing.

The tens of thousands who turned out against Yanukovych were not organized by the US. OR Nazis.

[Text: Removed] Again, how many countries has NATO invaded since being formed in 1949 to protect partners against Soviet invasion? How many countries has the Soviet Union and Russian Federation invaded since 1949?

And it doesn't change the crux of this thread. RuZZia launched an illegal invasion of a neighbouring state and for 162 days has been bombing and shelling civilian targets, destroying cities, committing war crime upon war crime in front of our eyes. They didn't invade because of 2014...they already stole the Crimean peninsula. They didn't invade because of 'Nazis'. How could they? The real fascist state is RuZZia? They didn't invade to 'liberate' Donbas. They moved in to take the entire country by force in order to exterminate Ukrainians (like the Muscovites have tried to do again and again) and to steal one of the richest prizes in eastern europe in order to gain control of minerals, oil, gas and agriculture. Look at what they are doing in the open...destroying Ukrainian civil infrastructure...stealing children in order to RuZZify them. Literally burning any Ukrainian books. Literally stealing grain and steel to sell abroad. They talk openly about their real aims here. Genocide and imperial expansion in order to recreate the Soviet Union 2.0.

This is what is happening now.

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His articles had some interesting information, some of which people ought to know but probably don't. But the sample is slanted, and not one article faces up to the reality that Putin and only Putin is responsible for deciding to launch a barbaric war in which his troops can quite fairly be referred to as orcs.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

[Quoted Post: Removed]

"Murder"? That's what Russia's troops have been doing to Ukrainian civilians.

Regardless of meddling from the U.S., Putin is the one who unleashed a barbarous horde that has been committing war crimes on a regular basis, treating his own people as toys to be thrown into a fire because he feels like it. If all the money that he and his cohorts have extorted from the Russian people had been spent on infrastructure instead, Russia by now would have an economy bursting with vigor as people started businesses made possible by decent roads and water systems. But he has nurtured a total kleptocracy worse than the Tsars instead.

There is no justification for allowing a military to steal children, murder people randomly on the streets, and reduce cities to rubble. Even if all the accusations of neo-Nazi organizations are true, none of what Russia is doing is justified.

Yes, there have been over-zealous declarations of hatred for all Russians. On the other hand, by now every Russian invader in Ukraine has had the chance to do what others did, to shoot their own officers and disable their own equipment and just walk away, refusing to abandon their humanity and rejecting becoming orcs, so it is not unreasonable to consider them all complicit in any further atrocities. That such an attitude, if embraced on a national scale, will be counterproductive does not make it unwarranted.

 

[dave99]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

"Murder"? That's what Russia's troops have been doing to Ukrainian civilians.

Regardless of meddling from the U.S., Putin is the one who unleashed a barbarous horde that has been committing war crimes on a regular basis, treating his own people as toys to be thrown into a fire because he feels like it. If all the money that he and his cohorts have extorted from the Russian people had been spent on infrastructure instead, Russia by now would have an economy bursting with vigor as people started businesses made possible by decent roads and water systems. But he has nurtured a total kleptocracy worse than the Tsars instead.

There is no justification for allowing a military to steal children, murder people randomly on the streets, and reduce cities to rubble. Even if all the accusations of neo-Nazi organizations are true, none of what Russia is doing is justified.

Yes, there have been over-zealous declarations of hatred for all Russians. On the other hand, by now every Russian invader in Ukraine has had the chance to do what others did, to shoot their own officers and disable their own equipment and just walk away, refusing to abandon their humanity and rejecting becoming orcs, so it is not unreasonable to consider them all complicit in any further atrocities. That such an attitude, if embraced on a national scale, will be counterproductive does not make it unwarranted.

Provide one sincere journalist who's spent time in Donesk and Lugansk getting to know the people and the situation during this war who will back up your characterization of what's happening. I already know you will not do so, because there isn't one. I've provided a German journalist who's been there for the past 6 months, and I know of American journalists who are there also and agree 100% with what Lipp says in the interview. [Text: Removed]

 

[rareboy]

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine [MERGED]

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I am only happy with the military casualties reported every day as the second army in the world is reduced to releasing prisoners to fight or conscripting 'volunteer' regiments from impoverished eastern regions and literally sending them in to be slaughtered. I am not cheering for or in any way advocating for RuZZian civilian casualties, although at this point, naked revenge would be understandable. Instead, Ukraine is pursuing justice through the Hague for the war crimes being committed.

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[dave99] still has not provided a single reason why the invasion of Ukraine by RuZZia is justified or why their continued occupation and attempt to seize Kherson, Kharkiv, Zaporhzhzhia, Donetsk or Luhansk has any moral or legal imperative. Again, this is just a completely naked land grab we are watching. The only way that RuZZia knows how to prop up their failing economy...just steal more. They are, at this moment, literally stealing gold in Sudan in order to help pay for this war, wreaking havoc there so that the criminal regime in the Kremlin can survive. This is all RuZZia knows...and they have had centuries of doing it.

[Text: Removed] Particularly when we get to the point of

"and I know of American journalists who are there also and agree 100% with what Lipp says in the interview."

The problem with this is that western journalists aren't in the Donbas...particularly after so many of them were killed by RuZZians...and only journalists with RuZZian passports or RuZZian paid propagandists are permitted to be in the area. In fact, this is an incredibly difficult war for media journalists to cover as this article explains International media are abusing the heroism of Ukraine’s journalists (open Democracy; March 30, 2022)

I could counter that I actually know people in and from Ukraine and they are pretty clear about what RuZZia's aims are and what is happening on the ground in the east and south. But that also proves nothing.
Because this war is seen through different lenses by everyone


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But on to more interesting news.

RuZZia is having to take Belarussian ammunition because so much of theirs has been used up or blown up.

The blowing up of the train in Kherson this past Sunday was another real blow, quite literally, for the invaders...80 killed, over 200 wounded and 40 cars of ammo and equipment...boom.