On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

[Rickrock]

That ^ is really bad.

 

[KaraBulut]

That ^ is really bad.

And it's still getting worse:

India announces most daily new infections in history of pandemic, with nearly 315,000 [WaPo]

On the good news front... we're starting to see small studies of vaccinated people that are showing very low rates of infection in people who were vaccinated:

One study only found breakthrough infections that were variants from the original strains.
Only 2 'breakthrough' infections among hundreds of fully vaccinated people, new study finds [CNN]

For fully vaccinated people, the risk of still getting Covid-19 -- described as "breakthrough infections" -- remains extremely low, a new study out of New York suggests.

Among 417 employees at Rockefeller University who were fully vaccinated with either the Pfizer or Moderna shots, two of them or about .5%, had breakthrough infections later, according to the study published on Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine...

The researchers, from Rockefeller University, found that coronavirus variants with several differences from the original virus caused the breakthrough infections.

 

[KaraBulut]

The week in COVID-19 statistics from India:

Daily Case Counts:
17-Apr: 234,692
18-Apr: 261,500
19-Apr: 273,810
20-Apr: 259,170
21-Apr: 295,041
22-Apr: 314,835
23-Apr: 332,730

Daily Deaths:
17-Apr: 1,341
18-Apr: 1,501
19-Apr: 1,619
20-Apr: 1,761
21-Apr: 2,023
22-Apr: 2,104
23-Apr: 2,263

Based upon the statistics, it's likely that the deaths are being greatly undercounted.

Hindu adherents don't embalm. The norm is cremation in India. However, the crematoriums are unable to handle the large number of deaths. Pictures and video from India show people burning bodies in parking lots.

There's pressure upon other countries to allow patent waivers on vaccines that would enable India to start mass-production of vaccines, however given the exponential growth of cases in India and the length of time that it would take to produce vaccines, vaccination will not slow the case growth. Their only option at this point is a nation-wide lockdown.

Rich countries are refusing to waive the rights on Covid vaccines as global cases hit record levels [CNBC]

The U.S., Canada and U.K. are among some of the high-income countries actively blocking a patent-waiver proposal designed to boost the global production of Covid-19 vaccines.

It comes as coronavirus cases worldwide surge to their highest level so far and the World Health Organization has repeatedly admonished a “shocking imbalance” in the distribution of vaccines amid the pandemic.

Members of the World Trade Organization will meet virtually in Geneva, Switzerland on Thursday to hold informal talks on whether to temporarily waive intellectual property and patent rights on Covid vaccines and treatments.

 

[Telstra]

so from the news,
Astra zeneca vaccine is abit risky, and people are shy away from it.
Pfizer vaccine is safer. Why can't a rich country have a choice ?

 

[Telstra]

The week in COVID-19 statistics from India:

Daily Case Counts:
17-Apr: 234,692
18-Apr: 261,500
19-Apr: 273,810
20-Apr: 259,170
21-Apr: 295,041
22-Apr: 314,835
23-Apr: 332,730

Daily Deaths:
17-Apr: 1,341
18-Apr: 1,501
19-Apr: 1,619
20-Apr: 1,761
21-Apr: 2,023
22-Apr: 2,104
23-Apr: 2,263

Based upon the statistics, it's likely that the deaths are being greatly undercounted.

Hindu adherents don't embalm. The norm is cremation in India. However, the crematoriums are unable to handle the large number of deaths. Pictures and video from India show people burning bodies in parking lots.

There's pressure upon other countries to allow patent waivers on vaccines that would enable India to start mass-production of vaccines, however given the exponential growth of cases in India and the length of time that it would take to produce vaccines, vaccination will not slow the case growth. Their only option at this point is a nation-wide lockdown.

Rich countries are refusing to waive the rights on Covid vaccines as global cases hit record levels [CNBC]

This is worth repeating, two face USA
''high-income countries actively blocking a patent-waiver proposal designed to boost the global production of Covid-19 vaccines.''

 

[KaraBulut]

This is worth repeating, two face USA ''high-income countries actively blocking a patent-waiver proposal designed to boost the global production of Covid-19 vaccines.''

It's a red herring.

India isn't a country that lacks the resources to handle a pandemic. Most of the medications sold in western countries are manufactured in India, so they have the infrastructure and technology to produce vaccine. What they lack is a plan and a competent government.

India has had a year to plan for rolling out a vaccine to a billion people. Even if there were a waiver, India won't be able to produce and administer the vaccines they produce in time to make a difference. Most of rural India doesn't have the infrastructure to rollout the vaccines that require ultra-cold storage. The Indian government under Mohdi could be given a billion doses of a vaccine today and it's still going to take them years to get enough of their population vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.

The US has about 290 million people who need to be vaccinated. They've been vaccinating for 5 months is a very successful rollout but as of yesterday, only 28% of the population was fully vaccinated. India has over 1 billion people. Do the math- it's going to be 2023 before they get to herd immunity via vaccination- and that's assuming they use a single dose vaccine (i.e. not Moderna and not Pfizer)- because they didn't get their infrastructure ready in 2020.

Contrast this with countries like Vietnam, Australia and New Zealand that are going to buy vaccines from the West. These countries have put in excellent plans to control the spread of the virus, to keep the endemic virus level down and to prevent development of variants while they wait for a vaccine to become available.

The WHO needs to put its resources into Africa, Central America and South America-. These are the countries that are going to be incredibly difficult to get vaccine delivered and administered and it will take probably 4-5 years to get to enough of the population immunized to get to herd immunity in those countries.

 

[Kulindahr]

I have to sound off about this somewhere.... There's an online thing called "Nextdoor", where people in geographical proximity share and discuss things.

Someone made a comment about masks being stupid and a threat to freedom. I posted some facts in response. What followed was the greatest concentrated explosion of ignorance, stupidity, and delusional thinking I've ever encountered: One guy argued that since five masks aren't better than four, and four aren't better than three, then three aren't better than two, and two aren't better than one, so one isn't better than zero -- he called this "obvious math". Another insists on the basis of a few states with serious restrictions still having high rates of new cases that restrictions are making things worse. A third asserts that because masks aren't reducing the death rate among those infected then they're worthless. One lady says if you get infected masks make it worth because they force you to re-breathe virus particles that come out of your lungs. Another isn't interested in anything but her claim that the idea of masks was invented by communists who are using them to take over. Then there's a couple of folks who insist that getting the vaccine is more dangerous than getting the virus!

And on and on and on, ridiculousness amplifying inanity.

 

[KaraBulut]

I have to sound off about this somewhere.... There's an online thing called "Nextdoor", where people in geographical proximity share and discuss things.

It's a social networking site that was supposed to be for neighbors who want to share information about "neighborhood watch" and "garage sales", etc. Like everything social media, it tends to be frequented by too many people who have too much time on their hands.

ISomeone made a comment about masks being stupid and a threat to freedom. I posted some facts in response. What followed was the greatest concentrated explosion of ignorance, stupidity, and delusional thinking I've ever encountered: ...

One of the great things about the internet is that you can find and network with people who have a lot of expert information about cars, computers, history and a bunch of things that most of us don't know.

Sadly, to get to those experts, it sometimes takes wading through people who have opinions, few facts and occupy space without much benefit. On a day to day basis, we are able to ignore or avoid these people who offer little useful information but by the nature of the internet, it makes it harder to avoid them (which is why many sites have an "ignore" feature).

I've reached a point where, when I encounter these people who say irrational things, I just tune them out. If they insist on arguing, I just say that most caskets are manufactured in the United States and I applaud them for helping to support American business.

 

[nycguydowntown]

I am Facebook friends for a few years with a young handsome Italian 30 year old jazz guitarist -(I follow other musicians) -he is so gifted he actually makes a living playing around the world--including NYC his second home. The thing that struck me about him is how in love he was with his father. His father was his best friend--they were inseparable when he was growing up in Italy--a guitarist himself his Dad gave him the love of playing---so as the world isn't a fair fucking place---his father just died of fucking covid. Maybe late 50's . Strong looking handsome man himself---my Facebook friend was an only child and of all the dysfunctional son dad relationships in the world --this one was perfect. So of course he dies. Life sucks and fuck covid. Thought this shit was over--his Dad almost made it to vaccine.

 

[belamyi]

so from the news,
Astra zeneca vaccine is abit risky, and people are shy away from it.
Pfizer vaccine is safer. Why can't a rich country have a choice ?

Because countries are not rich: individuals are. Wealth means connections, the right ones (like the elder Infantas of Spain, for example... assuming they were not shot some sort of placebo lol): you can sit on all the mafia money in the world and be helpless without the right mafia connections.

As for 'vaccine safety', (always according to "the news" that seem to be your guide):

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...of-dying-in-a-car-crash-unhelpful-experts-say

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/VACCINE-EFFECTS/xegvbglkrpq/

 

[KaraBulut]

...

^And that is the message.

Humans don't process relative risk very well, unfortunately. It's why there are so many people who who fear flying yet they don't give a thought to riding in a car.

There's a population of women who were getting this weird auto-immune clotting condition long before the vaccine was available. The incidence of the disorder didn't change significantly, so they're not completely sure that it was the vaccine causing it.

The incidence of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) in the general population before the vaccine: 5 per 1 million people.

The incidence of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) in people who received the Astra-Zeneca vaccine: 8 per 1 million shots.

 

[KaraBulut]

Week ending 24-Apr-2021:

Global COVID-19 Weekly Mortality/Morbidity

• Global Cases reported: 146,807,900 (up from 140,433,831 / 1.3%) - *‬*5,645,904 new cases this week
• Global Deaths: 3,096,110 (up from 3,008,964) - **87,146 people died this week

US COVID-19 Weekly Mortality/Morbidity

• Cases reported in the US - 32,042,854 (up from 31,627,701 / 4.0%), +415,153 new cases, 7.4% of world's new cases were in the US
• Deaths reported in the US - 572,199 deaths, 5,021 deaths this week , 5.8% of the world's deaths this week were in the US
• Testing: - 426,242,317 tests (up from 414,763,751 / +10,013,587 tests)
• Approx number of US residents vaccinated - 1st dose: - 138,644,724 (up from 129,494,179 / +9,150,545) - 42.01% of US population
• Approx number of US residents vaccinated - 2nd dose: - 93,078,040 (up from 82,471,151 / +10,606,889) - 28.21% of US population
• Approx number of US doses distributed - 290,685,655 (up from 264,499,715 / +26,185,940) - 77.6% have been administered

Coronavirus weekly cases/deaths in active countries (preference to countries with JUB members):

• US: 32,042,854 (up from 31,627,701 / +415,153 / 1.3%) - 571,914 deaths (+5,021) - avg daily: cases (+59,308) / deaths (+717)
• Italy : 3,949,517 (up from 3,857,443 / +92,074 / 2.4%) - 119,021 deaths (+2,345) - avg daily: cases (+13,153) / deaths (+335)
• Spain : 3,468,617 (up from 3,407,283 / +61,334 / 1.8%) - 77,591 deaths (+610) - avg daily: cases (+8,762) / deaths (+87)
• Germany : 3,276,871 (up from 3,139,683 / +137,188 / 4.4%) - 81,542 deaths (+1,632) - avg daily: cases (+19,598) / deaths (+233)
• Iran : 2,377,039 (up from 2,215,445 / +161,594 / 7.3%) - 69,120 deaths (+2,793) - avg daily: cases (+23,085) / deaths (+399)
• France : 5,534,656 (up from 5,321,176 / +213,480 / 4.0%) - 102,872 deaths (+2,120) - avg daily: cases (+30,497) / deaths (+303)
• South Korea : 118,243 (up from 114,115 / +4,128 / 3.6%) - 1,812 deaths (+15) - avg daily: cases (+590) / deaths (+2)
• Switzerland : 646,509 (up from 632,399 / +14,110 / 2.2%) - 10,594 deaths (+89) - avg daily: cases (+2,016) / deaths (+13)
• UK : 4,418,710 (up from 4,401,176 / +17,534 / 0.4%) - 127,670 deaths (+162) - avg daily: cases (+2,505) / deaths (+23)
• Netherlands : 1,478,144 (up from 1,419,871 / +58,273 / 4.1%) - 17,269 deaths (+155) - avg daily: cases (+8,325) / deaths (+22)
• Canada : 1,180,065 (up from 1,121,162 / +58,903 / 5.3%) - 23,912 deaths (+340) - avg daily: cases (+8,415) / deaths (+49)
• Australia : 29,661 (up from 29,513 / +148 / 0.5%) - 910 deaths (+0) - avg daily: cases (+21) / deaths (+0)
• Brazil: 14,308,215 (up from 13,900,091 / +408,124 / 2.9%) - 389,492 deaths (+17,814) - avg daily: cases (+58,303) / deaths (+2,545)
• Ireland: 246,204 (up from 243,238 / +2,966 / 1.2%) - 4,872 deaths (+37) - avg daily: cases (+424) / deaths (+5)
• Mexico: 2,326,738 (up from 2,305,602 / +21,136 / 0.9%) - 214,853 deaths (+2,514) - avg daily: cases (+3,019) / deaths (+359)
• New Zealand: 2,601 (up from 2,595 / +6 / 0.2%) - 26 deaths (+0) - avg daily: cases (+1) / deaths (+0)
• Turkey: 4,591,416 (up from 4,212,645 / +378,771 / 9.0%) - 38,011 deaths (+2,403) - avg daily: cases (+54,110) / deaths (+343)
• India: 16,610,481 (up from 14,526,609 / +2,083,872 / 14.3%) - 189,544 deaths (+13,895) - avg daily: cases (+297,696) / deaths (+1,985)
• Japan: 563,977 (up from 531,109 / +32,868 / 6.2%) - 9,888 deaths (+344) - avg daily: cases (+4,695) / deaths (+49)
• Russia: 4,699,988 (up from 4,640,537 / +59,451 / 1.3%) - 106,108 deaths (+2,657) - avg daily: cases (+8,493) / deaths (+380)
• Sweden: 938,343 (up from 900,138 / +38,205 / 4.2%) - 13,923 deaths (+135) - avg daily: cases (+5,458) / deaths (+19)
• Belgium: 968,107 (up from 947,000 / +21,107 / 2.2%) - 23,954 deaths (+236) - avg daily: cases (+3,015) / deaths (+34)
• Lebanon: 519,615 (up from 508,503 / +11,112 / 2.2%) - 7,118 deaths (+232) - avg daily: cases (+1,587) / deaths (+33)
• China: 102,367 (up from 102,201 / +166 / 0.2%) - 4,845 deaths (+0) - avg daily: cases (+24) / deaths (+0)

 

[Kulindahr]

One of the great things about the internet is that you can find and network with people who have a lot of expert information about cars, computers, history and a bunch of things that most of us don't know.

Sadly, to get to those experts, it sometimes takes wading through people who have opinions, few facts and occupy space without much benefit. On a day to day basis, we are able to ignore or avoid these people who offer little useful information but by the nature of the internet, it makes it harder to avoid them (which is why many sites have an "ignore" feature).

I've reached a point where, when I encounter these people who say irrational things, I just tune them out. If they insist on arguing, I just say that most caskets are manufactured in the United States and I applaud them for helping to support American business.

I got a good laugh today when one of the idiots about COVID posted a complaint about how high the property tax rate in the county is compared to the next county over the hill. I immediately posted the truth:
Number of counties in Oregon: 36
Ranking of the county in property tax rate: 32
Ranking of the county over the hill in property tax rate: 8

As for the COVID idiots, someone noted that there is a lot of ignorance parading as intelligence. I commented that trying to get reality across there was like trying to teach science to sixth graders who'd rather be playing video games. I figure that's a good closing summary of the situation.

 

[KaraBulut]

...As for the COVID idiots, someone noted that there is a lot of ignorance parading as intelligence. I commented that trying to get reality across there was like trying to teach science to sixth graders who'd rather be playing video games. I figure that's a good closing summary of the situation.

Ignorance, yes.

But I don't have an explanation for this... other than mass insanity and cult behavior.

 

[Telstra]

Many media, include Indian media said India is under count the death toll and the covid cases.
The true numbers are much much higher.

 

[KaraBulut]

Many media, include Indian media said India is under count the death toll and the covid cases.
The true numbers are much much higher.

That is true. The deaths are probably 2-3 times what they're reporting.

At this point in epidemics, it is common for the authorities to be unable to count the dead because they are dying too fast.

The traditional practice in India is to not embalm and most bodies are cremated. Because the crematoriums are over-capacity, bodies are being burned on pyres in parking lots, dozens at a time.

They're reporting about 350,000 new cases per day and about 3,000 deaths per day. The real numbers are probably more like 500,000 cases per day and 7,000-8,000 deaths per day.

 

[belamyi]

Many media, include Indian media said India is under count the death toll and the covid cases.
The true numbers are much much higher.

You mean the underreporting of deaths and covid cases is much higher in India than anywhere else in the world.

 

[Telstra]

You mean the underreporting of deaths and covid cases is much higher in India than anywhere else in the world.

I mean under counting (not enough officials to count) maybe most didn't go to hospitals doesn't count.

 

[belamyi]

I mean under counting (not enough officials to count) maybe most didn't go to hospitals doesn't count.

Nobody can assess the real amount of infected and dead in any country with millions of inhabitants scattered over thousands to milions of square miles: being India only makes it worse, with roughly the same population of China in half the area of Australia.

 

[KaraBulut]

Nobody can assess the real amount of infected and dead in any country with millions of inhabitants scattered over thousands to milions of square miles: being India only makes it worse, with roughly the same population of China in half the area of Australia.

And India a country with an underfunded, understaffed and underresourced healthcare system. India's hospital system was wholly under-prepared for a respiratory pandemic. India is another country that elected a populist and like the US, they have discovered that populists aren't the best leaders to have during a national crisis.

Nurses and doctors in India are well-educated but there's not nearly enough of them. People in India aren't dying in hospitals, as in American. There aren't enough available beds in India, so people are dying at home or in the streets. Even the lucky few who are getting a bed in a hospital are dying because there is a shortage of ventilators or oxygen in India.

There were stories over the weekend saying that India needed vaccines from the WHO, the US and Europe. Those stories were out of touch with the conditions on the ground in India. This week, we sent healthcare workers, ventilators, PPE and pressurized tanks of oxygen to India which will help the patients who are lucky enough to have a hospital bed, at least. It's not going to make a dent in the case rate or the death counts, though. It's too late for that.