On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

[Rickrock]

I have finally stopped wearing a mask most places as has almost everyone else I see.

 

[m1thousand]

In British Columbia, wearing a masks end at Friday, midnight (2 hours from now)

Visitations at long term care facilities begins on March 18

 

[cityboy-stl]

I have finally stopped wearing a mask most places as has almost everyone else I see.

I can't do it yet. It feels like deja vu from last July when everyone was taking their mask off. Then Delta hit. If everyone had kept their mask on longer, the consequences would not have been nearly so bad. But yet there is more deja-vu. On November 11 it looked like things might be getting a little better. On December 11 hospitals were overflowing again with Covid Omicron patients and even more deaths. Taking masks off now feels like it could be cultivating a breeding ground for the next variant to emerge, or at least providing fertile ground for it to thrive if it emerges elsewhere. My mask is staying on for at least a minimum of six months before I ever think of taking it off in a public area. I really hope none of that happens and this is truly the end. But taking my mask off now - to me - feels irresponsible. I know that's an unpopular view, but is it unrealistic? Let's not repeat the same thing until we have some confidence the result won't be the same.

 

[KaraBulut]

I can't do it yet. It feels like deja vu from last July when everyone was taking their mask off...

Two things came out of the masking for the past 2 years: 1. It normalized wearing a mask in the US when in the past we've always looked at Asia and wondered why they were wearing masks in public and 2. It politicized masks as a statement of political affiliation.

If we had it to do over again, it should have been treated as fashion. Everyone is running around in short shorts now just because it's fashionable and that's what the cool kids are wearing. If Kanye sold masks for $100, Kim Kardashian wore them on the red carpet and Jessica Simpson released a "plus sized" mask, people would have fought over them like at a Best Buy on Black Friday.

So far, there doesn't appear to be another variant of concern on the horizon and the one variant that the CDC is watching - BA.2 - doesn't appear to be significantly different from the original omicron variant that is in circulation.

The CDC guidance is leaning toward getting rid of mandates. That does not mean getting rid of masks. If you want to wear a mask, wear one. No one is going to throw you out of a store or refuse you entrance to a business because you're wearing a mask (well, unless you're kind of shady and look like you might rob the place). But- if you're going to wear a mask- skip the cheap paper ones that probably aren't very effective and either wear an N95 or pick a cloth mask with a filter that makes a fashion statement.

 

[belamyi]

^ You bet some people will start bashing mask-wearers when it is not mandatory anymore, since masks are now some sort of Muslim-gay-lib-black-pride-whatever-devilish symbol for the usual wackos.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Two things came out of the masking for the past 2 years: 1. It normalized wearing a mask in the US when in the past we've always looked at Asia and wondered why they were wearing masks in public and 2. It politicized masks as a statement of political affiliation.

If we had it to do over again, it should have been treated as fashion. Everyone is running around in short shorts now just because it's fashionable and that's what the cool kids are wearing. If Kanye sold masks for $100, Kim Kardashian wore them on the red carpet and Jessica Simpson released a "plus sized" mask, people would have fought over them like at a Best Buy on Black Friday.

So far, there doesn't appear to be another variant of concern on the horizon and the one variant that the CDC is watching - BA.2 - doesn't appear to be significantly different from the original omicron variant that is in circulation.

The CDC guidance is leaning toward getting rid of mandates. That does not mean getting rid of masks. If you want to wear a mask, wear one. No one is going to throw you out of a store or refuse you entrance to a business because you're wearing a mask (well, unless you're kind of shady and look like you might rob the place). But- if you're going to wear a mask- skip the cheap paper ones that probably aren't very effective and either wear an N95 or pick a cloth mask with a filter that makes a fashion statement.

Well...two weeks before Omicron showed up, there didn't appear to be another significant variant of concern on the horizon either. Then boom! The practical reality is that for a large number of people - in their minds - the CDC getting rid of mask mandates is the equivalent of the CDC saying the pandemic is over, so we no longer need to wear a mask. I know that is not what they mean, but it's what people hear. Experience makes me cautious that another variant could be right around the corner, and I prefer to be cautious for a while until experience meets reality. That's all I'm saying. I'm wearing N99 now (see a few posts up) which I like a lot. I don't know if they are that much safer, but I think they fit much better and are more comfortable.

 

[KaraBulut]

^ You bet some people will start bashing mask-wearers when it is not mandatory anymore, since masks are now some sort of Muslim-gay-lib-black-pride-whatever-devilish symbol for the usual wackos.

In the US, that already happened and is still happening. In the more Trump-y areas of the US, there was a lot of peer pressure not to wear masks.

Well...two weeks before Omicron showed up, there didn't appear to be another significant variant of concern on the horizon either. Then boom! .

There will be other variants. There will be other peaks. But what we're seeing from the statistics is that the vaccines are working and they are preventing the complications that we worry about.

Something to keep in mind: it's not the virus that is directly killing the people who are dying. What is killing them is an abnormal immune system response that triggers massive blood clotting in every organ and an auto-immune condition that destroys functioning of their lungs and kidneys. The vaccines are effective in reducing that immune system malfunction- which changes a SARS-CoV-2 from a overwhelming infection into a more manageable "cold" or "flu" illness. I do know people who are vaccinated who have gotten COVID-19. Most didn't know they had it. A few were sick for a week with a fever and flu-like symptoms.

Before we had the vaccines and we had the studies showing how effective they were at massively reducing severe illness, I wore a mask because it was the best option we had to prevent COVID-19 and to reduce transmission of COVID-19.

I've continued wearing a mask in public after I was vaccinated for two reasons- 1) I don't want to be a conduit to infecting another person who might be immunocompromised and 2) I generally hate being sick with respiratory illnesses, even if they are mild. When flu season rolls around next year, I may wear a mask just to avoid getting those annoying colds and flus that seem to pop up because people find it necessary to gather in crowds and travel around holidays.

 

[belamyi]

In the US, that already happened and is still happening. In the more Trump-y areas of the US, there was a lot of peer pressure not to wear masks.

Oh, I never had any doubt of that as a reaction while they are themselves the "oppressed" minority... I meant when they start attacking the "dangerous minority" of mask-wearing people.

 

[KaraBulut]

Oh, I never had any doubt of that as a reaction while they are themselves the "oppressed" minority... I meant when they start attacking the "dangerous minority" of mask-wearing people.

It's more complicated than that. There was a discussion a few years back where there was a discussion about the US' mixed origins, part of which was as a place for England to send their criminals and ne'er-do-wells. There's a group of Americans with a long history of being contrarians and doing things that are not in their best interest or in the best interest of their communities.

When properly inspired by a good leader, they can rise to the occasion and do things like help win World Wars, accomplish great feats of infrastructure-building or build a strong middle class. In the absence of good leadership, they revert to being contrarians.

 

[belamyi]

It's more complicated than that. There was a discussion a few years back where there was a discussion about the US' mixed origins, part of which was as a place for England to send their criminals and ne'er-do-wells. There's a group of Americans with a long history of being contrarians and doing things that are not in their best interest or in the best interest of their communities.

When properly inspired by a good leader, they can rise to the occasion and do things like help win World Wars, accomplish great feats of infrastructure-building or build a strong middle class. In the absence of good leadership, they revert to being contrarians.

For once I wasn't simplifying, just not entering into the mindless juvenile thuggish punk force that conquered the world and, left to its own void, purposeless brains, will act like a Looney Tasmanian Devil. That is what you get from telling people they are lords and masters by the mere fact of being born, taking for granted that no human is ever born in a social and cultural void, no matter how far you are from the closest one.

Actually, it's more complicated than that.

What you described there is not so much a nationality as the pushy part of human nat...ives.

- - - Updated - - -

When you are born in (under) a certain order, your strive is limited by it, and reduced to climbing and conquering.

Now when you are born a nobody and find an open clean (or relatively easy to clean) field of "opportunities" overseas, away from old orders, you are able to develop freely to the point... in which you clash with the old orders and constraints you left behind... in order to continue developing by imposing your own order.

In short, the modern world, the "Western" world was developed with such an obsession for all the outer constraints that hindered or even oppressed individual development, that it forgot and has very dangerously taken from granted those that come from the inside...

 

[belamyi]

... focused on outer evils and sometimes even consciously negates the very existence of inner ones.

 

[ruggerladirish]

I'm surprised that Ireland hasn't started backing away from masks in all but the most crowded settings. The numbers look pretty good there.

Ireland Vaccination Stats:

• Fully vaccinated: 79.8%
• Boosted: 57.0%

Ireland - Average per day case numbers

• 01-Jan: 13,731
• 08-Jan: 23,752 <-peak
• 15-Jan: 17,912
• 22-Jan: 6,068
• 29-Jan: 3,382
• 05-Feb: 5,181
• 12-Feb: 5,270
• 19-Feb: 3,188
• 26-Feb: 3,870
• 05-Mar: 3,270

Ireland - Average per day COVID-19 deaths

• 01-Jan: 3
• 08-Jan: 6
• 15-Jan: 12
• 22-Jan: 7
• 29-Jan: 7
• 05-Feb: 13 <-predicted peak
• 12-Feb: 9
• 19-Feb: 18 <-unexplained 2nd peak
• 26-Feb: 8
• 05-Mar: 8

I think the second peak was due to late reporting. We were still dealing with the Russian-backee ransomeware cyber attack on public health IT systems

Masks are now voluntary in all but health settings (ie hospitals, dentists, and GP clinics)

Many lessons learned from the pandemic. Importance of masks, hand sanitisation and how to actually clean your hands properly. Apart from COVID, we've learned that there are other air-borne viruses that can be avoided by basic prevention measures.

For my part, I'm not throwing away the FFP2 for some time yet.

 

[belamyi]

It's more complicated than that. There was a discussion a few years back where there was a discussion about the US' mixed origins, part of which was as a place for England to send their criminals and ne'er-do-wells. There's a group of Americans with a long history of being contrarians and doing things that are not in their best interest or in the best interest of their communities.

When properly inspired by a good leader, they can rise to the occasion and do things like help win World Wars, accomplish great feats of infrastructure-building or build a strong middle class. In the absence of good leadership, they revert to being contrarians.

To finish off this bout of provocation worked on me let's just sum it up by saying that the "antielitism" that is at the base of American civilization will end up eating up America as we have always known it, once the layers or "elitist" civilization, imported from the continent/s American implants (emigrees) always despised, are definitely worn out and peeled off.

 

[KaraBulut]

To finish off this bout of provocation worked on me let's just sum it up by saying that the "antielitism" that is at the base of American civilization will end up eating up America as we have always known it, once the layers or "elitist" civilization, imported from the continent/s American implants (emigrees) always despised, are definitely worn out and peeled off.

Having traveled and lived in other countries, I wouldn't describe this an American phenomenon.

What I do think is different is that Americans have the liberty to defy the State. In other countries that have anti-elitist and anti-intellectual hyper-religious segment of their society, defying the State will get you sent to prison or worse.

In the US, I would also not attribute the anti-science or anti-intellectual bent to our younger people. The under 40 crowd has another set of issues but they are more likely to have values that align with "the common good" over self-centered interests.

It's become apparent that the US has an issue with balancing individual freedom with public safety. We have the issue with things as mundane as seat belts and as serious as assault weapons. This time we were lucky- while COVID-19 has some serious long-hauler consequences, its overall mortality is less than 2% in the larger population. The next time- and there will likely be a next time- a pandemic may have a higher mortality. Hopefully, by then, the over age 40 crowd that are hyper-evangelical and anti-government will be gone.

 

[belamyi]

Having traveled and lived in other countries, I wouldn't describe this an American phenomenon.

What I do think is different is that Americans have the liberty to defy the State. In other countries that have anti-elitist and anti-intellectual hyper-religious segment of their society, defying the State will get you sent to prison or worse.

That's what I said when I pointed out that America was built by challengers of old order... in order to establish their own oppresive order, stifling any incoming challenge... just like any other society. The USA is the exact reverse order to drive from absolute freedom and "opportunity" to the old tight, oppresive system the first pioneering founding rascals had left behind in Europe... oppresive system which included the antidote of "freedom" that you do not find in the same way anywhere else on earth, either because it is hopeless or else unnecessary.

The difference is precisely the recent "tabula rasa" phaenomenon that is so contemporary and obvious to all of us ("young country"), while the same "foundational sins" of ethnic cleaning and all that have been obscured or lost their hold of people's minds.

Like with everything, it's not the ingredients, which are almost universally the same, but how they are cooked that makes all the difference.

- - - Updated - - -

It's become apparent that the US has an issue with balancing individual freedom with public safety. We have the issue with things as mundane as seat belts and as serious as assault weapons. This time we were lucky- while COVID-19 has some serious long-hauler consequences, its overall mortality is less than 2% in the larger population. The next time- and there will likely be a next time- a pandemic may have a higher mortality. Hopefully, by then, the over age 40 crowd that are hyper-evangelical and anti-government will be gone.

... and replaced, just like they are replacements themselves.

 

[belamyi]

In the US, I would also not attribute the anti-science or anti-intellectual bent to our younger people.

Why should anyone do

 

[belamyi]

Millions in new lockdown as China faces worst Covid outbreak in two years

Meanwhile...


Un prestigioso virólogo dice la frase que esperábamos oír

 

[Kulindahr]

I can't do it yet. It feels like deja vu from last July when everyone was taking their mask off. Then Delta hit. If everyone had kept their mask on longer, the consequences would not have been nearly so bad. But yet there is more deja-vu. On November 11 it looked like things might be getting a little better. On December 11 hospitals were overflowing again with Covid Omicron patients and even more deaths. Taking masks off now feels like it could be cultivating a breeding ground for the next variant to emerge, or at least providing fertile ground for it to thrive if it emerges elsewhere. My mask is staying on for at least a minimum of six months before I ever think of taking it off in a public area. I really hope none of that happens and this is truly the end. But taking my mask off now - to me - feels irresponsible. I know that's an unpopular view, but is it unrealistic? Let's not repeat the same thing until we have some confidence the result won't be the same.

There's a group here that has looked at all the data about COVID and the flu and other similarly-transmissible diseases and have declared themselves "Forever Maskers". They're already being made fun of but they don't care.

And I saw a mask with a message the other day: "Masks: they're for the children". Obviously it didn't mean that children are the only ones who should wear masks, since the woman wearing it had silvery white hair!

 

[Kulindahr]

Two things came out of the masking for the past 2 years: 1. It normalized wearing a mask in the US when in the past we've always looked at Asia and wondered why they were wearing masks in public and 2. It politicized masks as a statement of political affiliation.

If we had it to do over again, it should have been treated as fashion. Everyone is running around in short shorts now just because it's fashionable and that's what the cool kids are wearing. If Kanye sold masks for $100, Kim Kardashian wore them on the red carpet and Jessica Simpson released a "plus sized" mask, people would have fought over them like at a Best Buy on Black Friday.

That could still happen, if famous types started doing fashion masks.

I've been seeing some of these that kind of go in the direction of making wearing them cool:

Yesterday there were a couple of guys wearing these:

I actually saw one of these the other day in the drug store:

 

[cityboy-stl]

^^ Are those really effective?