"21 detained under suspicion of being gay"

[Telstra]

Edited to make sense. The religion isn't corrupt, it's the people that are and please reconsider posting things like that, we have Muslim JUBers who might not enjoy their religion being called corrupt.

ok, its the people who hides behind religion and use religion as a tool to do what ever they want to do.

 

[Críostóir]

ok, but the clerics backs the government. the clerics is a part of the religion.
The same with the Saudi's, the clerics (religion) backs the government.

Did you know the Iranian supreme Ayatollah has issued a fatwa stating that nuclear weapons are unIslamic and must not be produced? The government of Iran is not under the control of the clerics any more.

 

[TX-Beau]

Did you know the Iranian supreme Ayatollah has issued a fatwa stating that nuclear weapons are unIslamic and must not be produced? The government of Iran is not under the control of the clerics any more.

Really? That's interesting. Do you know the specifics?

 

[Telstra]

Did you know the Iranian supreme Ayatollah has issued a fatwa stating that nuclear weapons are unIslamic and must not be produced? The government of Iran is not under the control of the clerics any more.

thanks Criostoir, u win. yep, i did not know.

 

[Apollo]

I love that word fatwa.

 

[Apollo]

That would be the biggest wet dream Iranians will have, if the clerics did not have heavy influence politics. The president of Iran is a puppet of the clerical courts, and politically the Mullahs have the last word over any president there including on use of military force.

Westerners always make a big mistake of separating Sharia law as just religious law, but Islam is not just about praying to God, it's also controls day to day lives of the people, and politics is inseparable under desired Islamic lifestyle. Concept of separation of Church and Sate is foreign to Islamic cultures, unless they are controlled by dictators.
There is a reason why the Muslim Brotherhood, Alq Quida, Jamal Islamiya all intend to topple "secular" dictatorships/governments in Islamic countries, and impose classical--Taliban style Sharia governments.

Iranian clergy has been flip-flopping on use of nuclear weapons and ultimately approved the use of nukes against Kufars/infidels which under Sharia will include homosexuals as well, but of course Sharia is nice enough to say it is wrong to kill innocent people. Iranian Shiate Sharia interpretation is much more radical than Sunni and Suffis, especially on idea of sacrifice for 9th Imam. I would be much more worried with Iran having nukes than Saudi Arabia under King Abdullah.

Yeah, that would all be nice and clean if it weren't for Turkey, a secular islamic country. The people vehemently fight for secularism in government, and a clean seperation of church and state.

Politics is very seperable from Islam if the people actually work for it.

 

[Críostóir]

Really? That's interesting. Do you know the specifics?

Here's a link.

 

[Apollo]

Iraq and Pakistan were controlled by Europeans as well. They don't seem to be doing as well in the area of Church and State.

Pakistan is a common wealth.

Lebanon also has a lot of European influence in their capital of Beirut. Beirut is actually called the Paris of the middle east.

Or at least it was, seeing with all the bombing.

 

[TX-Beau]

Here's a link.

Thanks

 

[Kurn]

Black Wolf, blaming the Europeans has been a popular pastime for several decades.
However, I have to think that now it is overly Euro-centric. That is, for all their mistakes, Europe just really can't take much credit for the violence and degradation in Pakistan. [Ditto, many other countries]
For one thing: Most of the population of Pakistan has known nothing other than an independent Pakistan. Those who remember otherwise are very much senior citizens of that country.
And even so, the British notions of how to run a country like are really a part of what make up the bright spots of that vibrant and complex country.

 

[Apollo]

The Crusades and Turkish expansion into the Balkans has caused a great influence by the West. Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, even though they were under Western colonization, the remoteness desert life, plus Arabic culture was not as receptive to Western life.

Lebanon and especially Beirut was always diverse with different religions, where Christianity use to have a lot of influence. We can now see that Paris of Middle East has slowly turned into pretty much past history with the civil war and Hezbullah, again Shia, take over.

I'd say the fall of Beirut is do to the little conflict with Israel where you know, they bomb the city to hell? Call me crazy.

 

[Apollo]

Black Wolf, blaming the Europeans has been a popular pastime for several decades.
However, I have to think that now it is overly Euro-centric. That is, for all their mistakes, Europe just really can't take much credit for the violence and degradation in Pakistan. [Ditto, many other countries]
For one thing: Most of the population of Pakistan has known nothing other than an independent Pakistan. Those who remember otherwise are very much senior citizens of that country.
And even so, the British notions of how to run a country like are really a part of what make up the bright spots of that vibrant and complex country.

You can blame the Europeans. Like the African nations, they had these people come in and suddenly take over their country. They didn't really have any control and were essentially relegated to better treated slaves, then all of a sudden, they were suddenly and abruptly taken off the teet of the Europeans and left with a country where they had to suddenly fend for themselves and deal with having their historical enemies living in the same country.

Not to mention, people tend to garner grudges that aren't originally there. For instance, some black people who still fill white people are as racist as back in the old days before and during Martin Luther King, Jr. They didn't grow up in that time, but they still seem to feel that white people are out to destroy them and are still racist as all get out.

The Middle East countries are still better off than most African countries, their problem is being stuck with religious extremists in power. Luckily the youth in the more civilized and educated countries and cities don't agree with the policies.

 

[Telstra]

Muslim here

While I'm not an active member of the religion, from what I know of it, it's a religion like many others. It's has good and bad things, just like other religions.

I agree radical Muslims have given the religion a bad reputation for being evil or what not. Not all are like this and most will be glad to live in harmony with everyone.

(I will now return in hiding. Thanks)

Piggy is a Middle eastern ? what a revelation. !!!

 

[Puzuzzu]

I thought everyone knew.

1) for a Muslim with a name piggy, shame ;p
2) are you really an Arab?!?!?
mashallah lol

 

[Puzuzzu]

1) I'm not eating the pig, it's just a nickname.
2) And yes, I am, by name of course. I'm not religious.

As-salaam alaykum

I was kidding about the nick man, it actually refreshing to see a gay Arabic brother

 

[Chalchalero]

This is one more reason why the West should wake up and take a good look at Islam.
It doesn't allow room for dissent, or even for differences.
It doesn't allow room for compromise, or even for coexistence.
What the 'Prophet' called into existence allows only for two things: the world of Islam, where everything runs by the strict words of the Koran, and the "house of war", where lying, cheating, stealing, and murder are condoned if it will advance the cause of Islam.

You really should know better. You are so amazingly intelligent in the majority of what you write, which makes this silliness so startling to read.

Saudi Arabia's Islam is not representative of all Islam. In fact they are a minority sect known as Wahhabists, the most extreme brand of ultra conservative Islam there is. The only two countries where they form the majority are Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Qatar is still a far more liberal state than Saudi Arabia.

I believe you know this and have chosen to simply ignore it in a wanton desire to express a bigoted view of Islam.

That saddens me.

 

[Chalchalero]

Highly arguable... check this out (long!):

Part 1 . . . . . . . . . . . Part 6

Part 2 . . . . . . . . . . . Part 7

Part 3 . . . . . . . . . . . Part 8

Part 4 . . . . . . . . . . . Part 9

Part 5 . . . . . . . . . . . Part 10

It is so funny how you posted this and must not even have watched it. It starts out with Blair and Bush explaining that Islam is not an inherently violent religion and that they had nothing against Islam in general.

You know full well the difference between moderate and extreme. You also know that there are both in Islam just as in Judaism and Christianity. You know these things, why do you feel the need to disseminate such filth?

 

[Chalchalero]

Well next time you could put that in it's own thread.

OOOOOOR

Put him on your ignore list. I say you go with this one, that way, you can further enjoy JUB.

I do enjoy your posts!

 

[Chalchalero]

One big difference between Christianity and Islam:

Christianity, when the Bible is read incorrectly by deviant minds full of not much at all 'cause there isn't much room, can indeed produce bloodthirstiness. But Islam, from the start was bloodthirsty: it was born in blood shed by and at the direction of the 'Prophet', who authorized lying and theft and murder in 'Allah's' name; it grew by blood and terror; and it demands continued blood and terror and whatever else it takes (lying to the "unbeliever", false "alliances", etc.) to achieve the political and religious dominance of Islam of all humanity, where only Muslim males will have rights.

Their animosity toward the West isn't because of anything we did, it's because we're not them.

Where do you get this crap from? Please cite for me where in the Q'uran that these things are part of Islam's articles of faith. Please, oh pretty please!

 

[Chalchalero]

No Sharia Law isn't the Koran. Let me see if I've got this right, if there are any Muslims out there feel free to correct me. Sharia Law is based in the Koran, and the customary practices of certain regions. It allows for extrapolation of law through the consensus of the community based on the idea that God won't let everyone go astray. There are different kinds of Sharia Law; some are more conservative than others.

From Wikipedia.org:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Islamic principles of jurisprudence and for Muslims living outside the domain. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

There is no strictly static set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of how law ought to serve humanity, a consensus of the unified spirit, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammad and his companions), Ijma (consensus), Qiyas (reasoning by analogy) and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.