22 Navy SEALs killed in Afghanistan today

[JayQueer]

I have to admit that I got a knot in my stomach and my heart raced yesterday when I heard the news of the helicopter crash. My son just got to Afghanistan. He is an Army lieutenant and in military intelligence but is likely to be towards the front line as much as the rear given his propensity to be near excitement.

I can't say I was "relieved" to hear it was only Navy Seals for I have many friends in the military and any loss of life affects all military families.

@thewiz,

I didn't know your son is in the Army. Thank you for your son's service to our country. I will keep him in my thoughts & pray for his safe return.

I know this is slightly off-topic, but how did your son react when you "came out" as gay? Is he friendly with your husband? I'm guessing your son is probably in his 20s, and I also got the impression you're married to a much younger man (maybe I misunderstood).

 

[texpatriot]

Just,fucking whoa..Slow that Mustang down, hero,This is a residential neighborhood..

Just kidding.I agree with everything you said and wholeheartedly support calling the average right wing scumbag on their shit.Just like you did.

You'll notice something here,and in real life,if you haven't already.That the most vociferous supporters of the military/war are right wingers who'd rather be beaten with a pipe than,you know,actually serve.

There are ONLY THREE RIGHT WINGERS on this board I respect.TWO put their money where their mouth is (joe,john).I'm pretty sure they both know I respect them.The other one is a good guy,but he needs to think outside The Post...(bryan)

There are many,many,patriotic Americans with bum knees among these people.But like newborn babies,the recently discharged veteran has nothing coming from these punks. They love the fetus,but hate the baby.They ''support the troops'',but -hate the veteran..

Thanks guy who's screen name is taken from a Harley Davidson Motor.

There's nothing that you've posted that I can take issue with.

I'm sure that it's no secret here in this forum that I don't have much use for the American lapel pin, flag waving quasi conservatives who try to pass themselves off as "Patriotic Americans."

Most of them are the first in line to cut benefits for Veterans, Senior Citizens, Social Security and Medicaid, while claiming that their "benefits" are ENTITLEMENT programs.

While clearly looking over, or obscuring the fact that those "benefit/entitlements" were already, have already been, and continue to BE paid for by those some previously named individuals who've already contributed (and continue to contribute) through their own wages, tax, and income deductions to ensure that those programs remained "solvent."

But these are the programs that the Tea Party, and the GOP want to cut before they'll even remotely entertain eliminating the Bush Tax Cuts.

It doesn't matter the party!

As AMERICANS, some of us are forgetting that our Government has already tapped into Social Security, Veterans Benefits, and Medicare to PAY for our friends, brothers, sisters, daughters, and parents WHO WERE KILLED THIS WEEKEND, in order to fund more useless spending AND MORE WARS!

As Americans do we WANT TO HONOR THE DEATHS THAT TOOK PLACE THIS WEEKEND?

Then stop shooting platitudes out of your asses after a weekend binge at Taco Bell, and start hold our elected representatives accountable for their duplicity.

Thanks for taking the time to call them out..You're a REAL AMERICAN!

I doubt that.

I like to suck dick, I have friends who's immigration status is suspect, and even some of them believe in God but they're no longer sure where to find him.

I'm just a gay person who happens to have traditional, conservative views. I don't understand why people go off the deep end when they hear that.

You know, it struck me JayQueer as you were defending Tea Baggers, when you shared that you had attended a "Tea Party" rally; how friendly, open, and accepting that they were of you, did you give them any reason to suspect that you were "queer?"

Waving a Rainbow Flag, a T-Shirt with a HRC symbol?

Something that might give them reason to think that you're Gay?

Because if not?

Your defense of the Tea Party, and those at those rallies as being "accepting and welcoming" is disengiunous at best.

Anyone here an American first and a Dem or Repub second?

I'm always an American First!

I spent my time in service to "Uncle Sam" so that some of you fuckers could sit around and argue about who's more patriotic; "liberals v conservatives."

As far as this American is Concerned both Republicans and Democrats are both screwing the pooch.

While you guys argue on who can masturbate themselves the hardest, I'm taking a moment to pause on the deaths of these servicemen. I've already lost a buddy to these damn wars. I can only imagine the pain each and every one of these families are experiencing. Iraq has left a hole in my heart.

What a tragedy...

And I'm challenging you to take that a step further!

WE SHOULD BE DEMANDING that our politicians NEVER send our Son's, Daughters, Brothers, Sisters, Friends, and Neighbors into harms way without factoring in not only the emotional and financial cost of losing them within our homes, families, neighborhoods, and churches, but that we also honor their lives, and consider the financial costs of taking care of them in perpetuity.

Who's names are only invoked during election season, and when it's time to prove which party is MORE patriotic based upon how often they fly the American Flag, and how expensive/authentic their American Flag Lapel Pin is.



Those who died this weekend in that helicopter, and those who they were off to rescue deserve FAR MORE THAN PLATITUDES!

And considering how dysfunctional our current American Political System is, they don't deserve to share the same breath as those who's lives have been harmed, and for those who've already PAID.

 

[JayQueer]

You know, it struck me JayQueer as you were defending Tea Baggers, when you shared that you had attended a "Tea Party" rally; how friendly, open, and accepting that they were of you, did you give them any reason to suspect that you were "queer?"

Waving a Rainbow Flag, a T-Shirt with a HRC symbol?

Something that might give them reason to think that you're Gay?

Because if not?

Your defense of the Tea Party, and those at those rallies as being "accepting and welcoming" is disengiunous at best.

Well first of all, the HRC is essentially the gay-fundraising arm of the Democratic National Committee. Don't even try to pretend that HRC is non-partisan when it comes to party affiliation. They have already endorsed Obama's re-election when we don't even know who the Republican nominee is yet.

Second, why do I need to "announce" to everyone in public that I'm gay? Do you go to work or run errands around town wearing a giant rainbow flag on your shirt or wear a shirt that says, "I'm gay & fabulous"? I don't need to tell every stranger I run into that I'm gay -- it's none of their business.

 

[rareboy]

^ No, But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that if anyone asked at one of your Klan rallies, you'd lie and tell them that you were straight.

What you don't get sunshine, is that you can try to 'pass' for the kind of T-Baggin' good ole boy that you yearn to be....just know in your heart that if they were to find out that you want to poke your curryhole in the air for apparently any rich white guy that will marry you and move you to Westchester County.....well, let us just say that on top of your ethnic heritage....you're not likely to be asked to chair the refreshments committee for your local T-Bagger cell.

In fact, at most of their rallies, you'd be lucky not to get fag-bashed.

 

[texpatriot]

Well first of all, the HRC is essentially the gay-fundraising arm of the Democratic National Committee. Don't even try to pretend that HRC is non-partisan when it comes to party affiliation.

What a piece of RIGHT-WING ANTI AMERICAN bull shit that statement is.



A statement that CAN NOT BE PROVEN, because it's nothing more than a matter of perception.

The Human Rights Campaign, and pay attention here JayQueer, is NO FRIEND OF MINE.

They're mostly comprised of the same monied fags that laughed and giggled at you at you first experience at a West Hollywood Gay Bar.

I joined them because they were the first "national" GLBT lobby that was fighting for us in Washington.

I didn't have a lot of money to give, but I had my time to donate.

So I'm out there in the hot September sun during Dallas Gay Pride, with a clip board, and I'm sweating my ass off trying to get signatures / pledges to sign up to join the Human Rights Campaign.

I got a free HRC -T-Shirt!

I guess to show that I was "legit."

THEN I found out that there as huge "after pride party" hosted by the HRC and I wasn't invited.

Why?

Because I wasn't able to write a check for $1,000 dollars contributing to the Human Rights Campaign to make me eligible to attend that party.

The same motherfuckers who laughed at me, who pored their drinks on me, and tossed my clipboard out into the parade route while laughing their asses off at me and my fellow volunteers.

So FUCK THE HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN!

I've never given those mother fuckers one more minite of my time, or the minimum $35 yearly membership.

Fuck them!

But I'll be Gawd-Damned if I'm going to let some little suburban fag from Orange County tell me and the rest of the world that the HRC that:

Well first of all, the HRC is essentially the gay-fundraising arm of the Democratic National Committee. Don't even try to pretend that HRC is non-partisan when it comes to party affiliation.

Because that's just you talking out of your conservative, self-hating ass.

You don't have the first fucking clue, because the hardest thing that you've had to deal with is not being our own man.

They have already endorsed Obama's re-election when we don't even know who the Republican nominee is yet.

Like that pond scum candidate for the wacko Tea Party, Evangelical Religious Right (despite being a Morman at this point) is going to make a difference.

And who says you don't have a sense of humor JayQueer!

Second, why do I need to "announce" to everyone in public that I'm gay?

Why?

Let me throw some scripture atcha!

1 John 3:18 NIV

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

Otherwise you're just a liar who speaks with the Devil's Tongue.

Speak with a hypocrisy bitch? I WILL CALL YOU ON IT!

Do you go to work or run errands around town wearing a giant rainbow flag on your shirt or wear a shirt that says, "I'm gay & fabulous"?

Honestly?

No.

But I'm not afraid to wear a cotton blend T-Shirt that's so tight to announce to the rest of the County Square that I'm a man who cares what he looks like (and gets paid for showing it off to guys), watches what he eats, and if that doesn't announce GAY in Rural Texas, or at a Tea Party Rally, I don't know what does!

Do you get where I'm coming from with this?

I don't need to tell every stranger I run into that I'm gay -- it's none of their business.

Well Hell JayQueer neither do I!

There are most things that are better left to the gossips.

As a Gay Man who's out to his entire family, and friends, I personally control my own "Public Relations Campaign."

You're obviously approaching it from the perspective of "OMG! What if they knew I was GAY?"

I approach it from the perspective that the only people who really matter already KNOW that I'm gay, and I/we (family and friends) are just fucking with everyone else.

But do you know what JayQueer?

My family, and my friends and I made that happen.

I came out.

My benefit in life is that my family and friends LOVE me more than who the "gender" that gets my dick hard, or the politics that I support.

And I feel like I earned that respect because I own it.

What do you own?

My Grandpa use to tell me, "Son, if you don't stand for something, then you'll fal for anything."

I'm an American, and I'm Gay!

I served in the United States Milliary.

I use to vote for Republicans.

I discovered that the only reason that I voted for Democrats is because they werent Republicans.

And from what I can tell you're just blowing shit out of your ass.

 

[texpatriot]

^ Oh!

That still doesn't mean that I wouldn't fuck you!

I'd fuck you HARD, I'd give your tight little hole every square inch of my fat cock that your butt cold take!

I'd expect a huge cash donation in return, and then I'd donate the proceeds to the HRC, just out of pricniple.

 

[laikaNYC]

^ No, But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that if anyone asked at one of your Klan rallies, you'd lie and tell them that you were straight.

There were lynchings and other violent, racially charged attacks at Tea Parties?

 

[archive]

^ Oh!

That still doesn't mean that I wouldn't fuck you!

I'd fuck you HARD, I'd give your tight little hole every square inch of my fat cock that your butt cold take!

I'd expect a huge cash donation in return, and then I'd donate the proceeds to the HRC, just out of pricniple.

Love it, but you didn't have to murder any chance he had besides the usual canned response. You're my new hero.

 

[archive]

There were lynchings and other racially charged attacks at Tea Parties?

Go stand in the corner.

 

[texpatriot]

There were lynchings and other racially charged attacks at Tea Parties?

Well of course not!

It's only considered fashionably considerate to never over dress more than the host.

Where are your manners?

 

[RonR18]

No, you guys are making inferences that are not true.

I support Obama's decision to have bin Laden killed. I think it was one of the few things he has done right during his presidency.

The Taliban probably had no way of knowing exactly which Navy SEALs were responsible for shooting bin Laden. But his death most likely became a rallying cry for those Taliban militants to shoot down as many U.S. soldiers as possible. So, in the Taliban's view, for them to take out 31 or more U.S. troops with a single missile.......they probably saw that as a "victory" and a good way to avenge bin Laden's death.

RE: No, you guys are making inferences that are not true.

"You guys?" Are you implying that I have a multiple personality disorder? And no, I didn't make any "inferences," as I based my comments on your exact words in the OP, and there's no mistaking the meaning of what you said.

RE: I support Obama's decision to have bin Laden killed. I think it was one of the few things he has done right during his presidency.

But you didn't state that in your OP. And based on the way you worded the "bait," it could easily be concluded that you took issue with the fact that Bin Laden wasn't taken alive. As it appeared that you were deliberately trying to associate Obama with the deaths of the SEALS. As again, Obama authorized the killing of Bin Laden, and you indicated the helicopter was shot down solely out of revenge for his death.

RE: The Taliban probably had no way of knowing exactly which Navy SEALs were responsible for shooting bin Laden.

"Probably?" That goes without saying, as their identities are a closely guarded secret. They also had no way of knowing there were SEALS on that helicopter.

RE: But his death most likely became a rallying cry for those Taliban militants to shoot down as many U.S. soldiers as possible.

Are you for real? You don't think that killing thousands of Taliban insurgents is enough motive for them to "shoot down as many U.S. soldiers as possible?"

RE: So, in the Taliban's view, for them to take out 31 or more U.S. troops with a single missile.......they probably saw that as a "victory" and a good way to avenge bin Laden's death.

Yet another extremely nonsensical statement. "Probably" saw it as a victory? Again, are you for real? Anyone with an infinitesimal amount of common sense is aware they saw it as a "victory." And it's obvious that you're trying to mince words with that sentence. As now you're implying that you meant they saw it as revenge for Bin Laden's death after the fact. Again, follow your own advice... go back and read the OP.
As you stated, "This was clearly done by the Taliban to avenge Bin Laden's death."

You can dance around the bullshit in your OP all you want to, but at the end of the day it's still going to be there, stinking up the thread. The best way for you to save face at this point is to just man up and admit that you screwed up royally, and then post a revised version of the OP, the way it should have been written in the first place.

 

[MoltenRock III]

What a piece of RIGHT-WING ANTI AMERICAN blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.... Like that pond scum candidate for the wacko Tea Party, Evangelical Religious Right (despite being a Morman at this point) is going to make a difference.blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blahblah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

But I'm not afraid to wear a cotton blend T-Shirt that's so tight to announce to the rest of the County Square that I'm a man who cares what he looks like (and gets paid for showing it off to guys), watches what he eats, and if that doesn't announce GAY in Rural Texas, or at a Tea Party Rally, I don't know what does!

Um.... yeah, I agree! You go girl! Now.... where is it you get paid for it? And how much is it? Enquiring minds, and all that, 'ya know.

 

[thewiz]

I'm not sure but I think someone might have hit Texpatriot's nerve! lol! I wouldn't mind hitting something else, but I'll try to stick to this thread!

Concerning my son who is in the Army and just got to Afghanistan; I talked to he and his wife today and he is doing well. I have two children and two step-children and my own two are 22 (daughter) and 24 (son). He was the first one I came out to five years ago.

I flew him and his girlfriend at the time to DC and told them I needed to tell them something. His girlfriend looked at me as we sat down to dinner and asked, "are you going to tell us your gay now?" Had I had food, I would have spit it out. Turns out she has a twin brother who is gay but she was gifted with a better gaydar. My son and his (now) wife have been to DC many times; he plays in the gay football league of which I participate and we've gone to a number of gay clubs, etc. His friends have tried to set me up before I was married whenever I went back to Michigan to visit him! lol!

As for HRC being an arm of the DNC, I would have to tell you that you are totally wrong. I am friends with many who work at HRC; we'll be table captains at their annual dinner; and I don't always agree with them.

But I do agree that they have helped get gay marriage in DC, New York, and are working in other parts of the country now. I didn't see any Republicans doing that (matter of fact the Republican party had planned to attempt to hold the DC budget hostage with it freed only if they agree to reverse and ban gay marriage).

HRC has helped establish programs for youth who have been thrown out of their homes or cut off by parents for only admitting who they were. I find that revolting and have worked with some youth who were made homeless in that manner. I cannot tell you how sorry I feel for them and their parents; it is only ignorance of the parents that causes such actions. I was lucky my kids totally accepted me as have many of my straight friends back in Michigan (who learned I and Barry married in DC).

HRC is also fighting the spread of HIV/AIDS. I've been to a number of meetings and the fastest group which is growing with new cases of infection are black men. I suspect the cultural pressure to "not be gay" has caused many to go "down low" and not take protection. Black women are at high risk as well -- because they same DL men hide their gay condition by having unprotected sex with them.

And HRC does speak out for gay rights and is at the forefront of the gay rights movement. Having a voice is key to us making progress.

I do think HRC should hold the president and Dems more responsible at times and have told that to leadership. I think the president and leadership was stupid to think you could govern with bipartisanship when one party only seeks to destroy you. It's kind of like thinking we could make peace with Osama Bin Laden -- his only intent was to ruin America.

I wish the Dems and president would grow a pair and stand up forcefully. I vote for people -- not party -- although I must say I have begun to look more frequently at the Dem side after being much more Republican in the past.

I am amazed at how people are shocked and outraged at this loss of life in Afghanistan. I am also saddened. This is war (although never declared). Unfortunately we have become so insulated from the realities of war that when life is lost, everyone seems surprised. We think war is nothing but pushing buttons and launching missiles and the bad guy disappears.

Well our real sons and daughters are taken from their families and put into hell holes around the world. They get up every morning and risk their lives for us who hear little about their work and efforts until they are killed. The people who they are trying to protect or help have no concept of government, governing, or loyalty (for the most part).

As I said earlier, if there was more awareness, this debacle likely would not have gone on for so long nor would Iraq have been allowed. But given no one knows the true price of these "actions"....demand for change is miniscule.

 

[JayQueer]

@thewiz,

Thank you for your response. I agree with you that HRC does do positive work for gay people.

However, I cannot personally support HRC because they don't adequately reach out to people like me. I know some of the people who work in HRC, and they don't reflect the real diversity of the gay community.

How many gay conservatives work for HRC? How many Asian-American, African-American, Latino, Middle Eastern, and Asian Indian gays work at HRC? How many Muslims, Buddhists, or Hindus work at HRC?

HRC is made up mostly of white gay men & white lesbians, and their social events are targeted not to struggling young LGBT teens & adults, but rather to the "power gays" and trendy "A list gays".

I'm sorry, but I do not wish to pay membership charges or make regular donations so Joe Solmonese can have some more champagne and caviar at his next party in Georgetown or Manhattan.

 

[JayQueer]

I'm a proud long-term HRC member, and I grow more impressed with them as time goes by.

Well, good for you, but I disagree.

HRC is great if you're a gay liberal. If you're a gay conservative, HRC couldn't care less about you.

HRC has already placed all their eggs in one basket by endorsing Obama for his re-election, without at least waiting to see who the Republican is.

I hope HRC will be able to work with the next (Republican) president, because the odds are pretty good we will have one in a couple years.

 

[thewiz]

@thewiz,

Thank you for your response. I agree with you that HRC does do positive work for gay people.

However, I cannot personally support HRC because they don't adequately reach out to people like me. I know some of the people who work in HRC, and they don't reflect the real diversity of the gay community.

How many gay conservatives work for HRC? How many Asian-American, African-American, Latino, Middle Eastern, and Asian Indian gays work at HRC? How many Muslims, Buddhists, or Hindus work at HRC?

HRC is made up mostly of white gay men & white lesbians, and their social events are targeted not to struggling young LGBT teens & adults, but rather to the "power gays" and trendy "A list gays".

I'm sorry, but I do not wish to pay membership charges or make regular donations so Joe Solmonese can have some more champagne and caviar at his next party in Georgetown or Manhattan.

I'm not sure where you live but where I live in DC....I, as a white male, am usually the minority at all HRC events (other than the annual dinner where it is pretty well mixed). I just attended and volunteered at a program to mark the 30th anniversary of the beginning of the HIV/AIDS epidemic and there were, perhaps, a handful of white males at the event. Most were black, hispanic, Asian, lesbian and other minorities. I have been to at least four other recent HRC events and have yet to be a majority at any.

As to gay conservatives....I am sure there are although I rarely have discussed politics. I have also attended Log Cabin Republican meetings: how many minority conservatives do you suppose I run into at those events? Other than my friend Robert, who is black, I can say I truly am the majority at EVERY one of their events. My roommates are very active in the Log Cabin Republicans and we have discussed the difficulty with being part of an organization that would deny your existence. At least the Dems respect the HRC and its contributions (financial) whereas the Repubs would sooner deny there is such a thing as "Log Cabin." The LC Repubs were responsible for the lawsuit that got rid of DADT but it is their leader who has now hired attorneys to overturn the decision! Kind of skitzo....

While I used to tend to be more Republican, the party today is nothing to which I could belong or support. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal -- the Republican party today that you seek to belong is Christian, white, would deny the poor, caters to the rich at all costs, and just drove our economy off a cliff to support their ideology. While you may find Joe distasteful; I find the Republicans in power far more dangerous and disgusting.

If you think as a minority gay male that you would have any place at the table in the Republican party to which you are seeking -- think again. HRC does entertain the A-list folks (and they entertain at the events just as much)....the Republican events to which I have been do as much but to an all-white, older money crowd.