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3 Florida Ex-Cops Sentenced in Scheme to Frame Innocent Black People

Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

Indeed, i'm sure it's even more than 99%, that amount of bad apples must be infinitesimal.

Do you care to share from where you drew these numbers you're so sure of? I have asked twice, maybe thrice for clarification's sake. A cynical person might think you're just being cheeky.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

This was supposed to be a serious topic but I must say I'm finding some pleasant humor.

Them: Most cops are good

Me: Sources?

Them:

giphy.gif
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

Damn a bitch asked for receipts and this muthafucka turnt into a ghost town.

You first.

American police stay in the news for corruption, violence, abuse, sexual assault, DUI, drug charges, misuse of firearms or force … domestic violence

… ask one hundred policemen's wives how many of them have been hit.

beating the shit out of a citizen … planting evidence on innocent people … raping children … stealing … beating their wives/children … selling drugs … working in conjunction with street gangs.

… I need some statistics. I need some numbers. I need to know how many cops have beat their wives or planted evidence or [been] arrested for DUI or sexual assault.

You made some rather bold assertions about police officers without providing any percentages or similar contextual reference. I agree – You need some numbers.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

You made some rather bold assertions about police officers without providing any percentages or similar contextual reference. I agree – You need some numbers.

Of course. What a classic indict-by-accusation narrative. The implication is that the status quo supporter must prove a negative, prove that cops are not universally corrupt, prove that there was not a second shooter in the grassy knoll, prove the oligarchs did not stage 9-11 to provide pretext to war. It is the path of delusion and dementia if it is not cynical manipulation of an audience.

And of course, you exclude the facts that don't fit within the delusion. Where is the data to show Latino conspiracy and collaboration to frame blacks? Where are the statistics to show non-black minorities in police forces who systematically use racism to propagate black oppression?

And what of the actual criminal data? That people were rounded up and framed isn't really in context without criminal records? Were these targets void of any recent criminal records, or were they merely habitual criminals whom the police had arrested many times and were convicted illegally by a police force that cheated and bypassed due process in favor of an unconstitutional pogrom? In both cases, an illegal travesty would be actual, but society would see the latter very differently that the alleged "random" accusation.

The facts are the facts, but we haven't been shown them. We have just heard propaganda, as before.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

I've made no bones about why JUB should discount Fab's threads. They leap to the fray, only seeing the worst possible and always ignoring the reality on the street in favor of the oppression narrative when plain old common sense usually informs us of the truth.

This thread is another case in point. Whereas the simplistic sound byte title sounds plausible and is built on partial truth, it's not the whole story. As has already been pointed out, it ignores the Latino ethnicity of the guilty officer behind the illegal arrests. That is an inconvenient truth when the propaganda's goal is to further the White Privilege/White Supremacist social theory. And be clear -- there exists majority/Caucasian racism, so it certainly doesn't require reeling in extra fish to support the actual incidence at whatever real occurrence it exists.

Having no knowledge of this story before Fab's trolling, I followed the link in the OP. The two cases cited for the frame up are here:

Miami Herald said:
In February 2014, Atesiano told Ravelo that he wanted him to arrest Erasmus Banmah, 31, for five unsolved vehicle burglaries, despite knowing there was “no evidence” that he had committed the crimes, prosecutors allege in court records. A couple of days later, Ravelo filled out five arrest forms falsely accusing Banmah of the vehicle burglaries at five different street locations in Biscayne Park.

For each of the five burglaries, Ravelo “falsely claimed in an arrest affidavit that [Banmah] had taken him to the site of the respective burglary and confessed to the items that [he] had stolen,” they say.

In January 2013, Atesiano ordered Ravelo to arrest Clarens Desrouleaux, 35, for two unsolved home break-ins. The officer signed two arrest affidavits falsely claiming that Desrouleaux “had confessed to committing the burglary,” prosecutors allege.

On Thursday, Ravelo admitted his wrongdoing in federal court.

So, let's see who these innocent victims are.

This link helps us understand Mr. Erasmus Banmah more clearly: https://www.rapsheets.org/florida/doc-prisoner/BANMAH_ERASMUS/M55158\

He is a man with 17 aliases. I've heard of guys wanting to dodge their ex, even child support, but 17? Perhaps he is just a solid believer in turning over a new leaf, especially every time he is discharged from prison.

And his incarceration record before he was framed for what were not proven to be his vehicular burglaries (which is not the same as saying they weren't his)? The convictions include burglary, grand theft, and cocaine possession. He must look the part to have been previously convicted for the same crimes.

Whereas the Ravelo-directed false arrests were onerous and unconstitutional, even the Herald article faithfully records that officers were pushed to arrest habitual offenders, career criminals. In other words, the cops cheated. They arrested the enemy, those that they were trying to catch every day because they are proven criminals. That they were black is indeed racist, which is laid at the feet of a Latino officer, not White Privilege or whatever other lump category you need for the story.

And what of the martyred Mr. Clarens Desrouleaux? Have a look for yourself: https://thegrio.com/2018/08/13/poli...n-5-years-in-jail-got-deported-back-to-haiti/

Our upstanding Haitian native was actually arrested with a stolen check on his person. His conviction was vacated before he was deported back to Haiti (or after?) because of the confession of the corruption scandal. It is a strange piece of evidence to plant, isn't it, if that is anyone's allegation. Where would an officer get a stolen check to use as evidence in a burglary or theft case? The only people who would have the stolen check would be the thieves. This isn't like planting a bag of weed on a suspect. It's a piece of material evidence in an actual theft.

Although the article doesn't explain whether the check had anything to do with the contrived charges against the man, it doesn't seem so bogus as you read about the charges being vacated for lack of proof of breaking and entering.

At any rate, I think the corruption deserves the bad press it gets, but also deserving the light of day is the actual criminal records of the victims of the framing. I lived next door to a career criminal in Albuquerque. The cops were lazy and apathetic about catching him. He broke into my house once, kicking in the front door. Another time, he was stealing a neighbor's motorcycle when the neighbor caught him. He wasn't black, just a career criminal. But I don't believe any of you would want either "victim" in this story to be your neighbor, or in your neighborhood. And, after enough continuing crime, you'd welcome their removal from the street.

Black oppression is real, but only a fool conflates the targeting of actual criminals (albeit illegally) with the deprivation of opportunities for success for blacks. The two are not the same. Using this story only further erodes the credibility of the OP, and rightfully so.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

There's always bad apples in any organisation, i'm sure 99% of police officers do a splendid job.

I'm sure that was sarcasm, because I feel this is more a "tip of the iceberg" thing.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

You made some rather bold assertions about police officers without providing any percentages or similar contextual reference. I agree – You need some numbers.

:? Well gee that's not one-sided at all. :rolleyes:
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

I'm sure that was sarcasm, because I feel this is more a "tip of the iceberg" thing.

It was. As are a majority of the posts here. Nobody's actually done any research I just have a knack for attracting people who don't care about my topics, INTO my topics. How I pull that off is beyond my realm of understanding.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

Black oppression is real, but only a fool conflates the targeting of actual criminals (albeit illegally) with the deprivation of opportunities for success for blacks. The two are not the same. Using this story only further erodes the credibility of the OP, and rightfully so.

I read this and the first sentence. Neither are true. This narrative that black are trying to indict ALL officers or get off on oppression is as false as it is rooted in old racist themes-- lazy blacks wanting a handout, psychotic, feral blacks who can't be reasoned with and shouldn't be taken seriously, blood-hungry negroes lusting for cop blood.

None of it true. None of it ever expressed in any of my threads. I'm not a cop hater. My problem isn't any individual cop or group of cops rather with the system that allows them to get away with it. But of course me being a person of color means I don't get the benefit of the doubt nor does my intelligence.

Again, I can't stress how much I did NOT read any of that post. I'm sure it's the usual circumlocution, hot air and tangents.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

prove that cops are not universally corrupt

what the hell are you talking about oligarchs and 9/11 and shit? can somebody, anybody please show me when/where/why/how I said cops are universally corrupt? You're the second, maybe third person to make that assertion in my topic and I've yet to see it substantiated. Maybe YOU are making inferences from my threads and instead of asking me about it you pull out your grab bag of tangents and SAT words to write 6 paragraphs challenging me on thing I've never

ever

ever

ever

said.

:?

Which brings me back to the heartbreaking reality that some white people could watch a cop stomp an innocent black person's face in while proclaiming "I hate black people and that is the only reason I am stomping this nigger's face in." and the response would go something like this

"I just don't see how this is racist."

"We don't know what happened before the stomping."

"[insert insinuation without directly stating that blacks are criminals and deserve this treatment]"

I'm not stupid, I know that eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevery single cop isn't a monster, but that's not the point as nobody here can prove that I've ever said otherwise, this is just an attempt at derailing a topic that many of you simply don't have the will-power or care to really get into so you issue these garbage-ass retorts about bad apples and all cops because it makes you feel better about the fact that you DO know this is going on and simply DON'T care. Because it's not you or people who look like you.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

Even if it were the tip of some alleged iceberg, you'd need some data for context rather that insinuation. Mars could have been full of malevolent little green men, as spun by comics and science fiction and hysteria.

But it wasn't.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

Even if it were the tip of some alleged iceberg, you'd need some data for context rather that insinuation. Mars could have been full of malevolent little green men, as spun by comics and science fiction and hysteria.

But it wasn't.

Other than "This is more common than you believe" I don't remember making any indictments about ALL or even MOST cops, ONLY that these incidents aren't as one-off as you'd think. And honestly this is common knowledge for most people that American policing is shitty and needs severe overhaul. The four or five of you challenging me on the first are the first people I've met who legitimately believe that these actions are uncommon. Maybe you're assuming "Doesn't happen to white people" = "Doesn't happen a lot."

Until Black Lives Matter cops weren't exactly adorned in America. We would say the empty hollow things like "They have a tough job" and "sacrifice" blah blah blah but people didn't really really like cops until it become fashionably contrary to people of color to do so, a response to this false narrative that we hate cops and want them all to die. Again, this has never been substantiated by me or really any person of color in mainstream but that doesn't stop you guys from moving forward with it. :rolleyes:

And once again a story about a black person being victimized by the system is met with doubt, confusion, distrust and a manipulation of facts as well as my intentions. even after several cops are indicted on these charges we still get the requisite "But we don't know the whole story." There is no whole story, there is no justification for their behavior and white serial murders don't get treated like this. But alas, I know some people get boners poking the race beehive and the default position will always be anti-whatever the black person is saying.

There's something you don't see every day. Unless you're black. And in America. And your eyes are open.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

I'd like to point out the obvious and obviously racist tone of the difference in responses:

Threads about Muslim terrorists or black criminals, NOBODY [let alone several people, aside from the usual kind-heared suspects] jumps up to say "But they're mostly good people" or "There's a few bad apples." It's not even insinuated it's stated plainly as fact that we should be afraid of MOST of them. That MOST are dangerous or bad or criminal. When prop 8 passed nobody said "Yeah blacks supported it but they're mostly good people."

The hypocrisy and double-standards are so clear you can see THROUGH them. The lack of sympathy or concern is not an indictment of me, rather further proof that some white gay men exist on an island where no one else lives or matters except for other white gays, except the obligatory big-dicked mandingo or two. :rolleyes: Sad truth: Some of yall will fuck us but don't give 1/3 of a damn about us aside from bragging rights.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

Indeed, i'm sure it's even more than 99%, that amount of bad apples must be infinitesimal.
On your side of The Pond, maybe. I'm guessing police in Scotland (aha, I got it right this time) probably adhere to a much more consistent standard than here.

That said, I needed some help (having to do with the need to make a phone call) when I was in Italy two years ago, and I had **NO** fear or dread whatsoever about asking for a policeman to help me. He actually let me make the phone call on his personal phone, and the encounter was pleasant. I wouldn't expect this in USA.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

On your side of The Pond, maybe. I'm guessing police in Scotland (aha, I got it right this time) probably adhere to a much more consistent standard than here.

That said, I needed some help (having to do with the need to make a phone call) when I was in Italy two years ago, and I had **NO** fear or dread whatsoever about asking for a policeman to help me. He actually let me make the phone call on his personal phone, and the encounter was pleasant. I wouldn't expect this in USA.

Frank in a barren desert of thoughtlessness you are an oasis of truth and light. Thank you for always be so understanding and caring. If more Americans followed your example color wouldn't be such a problem in this country and police wouldn't take wild chances breaking the law and violating people of color absent of that knowledge that the public wouldn't really give a damn anyway.

A few things cross-section here

-the idea that comfort should only be standard for white people. We have individual laws on the books named after white people, the idea is that no bad thing should happen to any white person ever and if it does punishment should be swift and heavy-handed. The Matthew Shepherd Act, Caylee's law, Marsy's law, Johnathan's law. Where's Trayvon's law or Sean Bell's law or emmitt till's law? white victimhood is met with sympathy black victimhood is met with scrutiny

-in conjunction with "black victimhood is met with scrutiny" so is black activism. First rule is to cast doubt on the possibility of race being a factor in an incident such as "We don't know what happened before the camera started rolling." If that can't be done, say, if the cop is exposed as a Klan member, then you move to phase two which is to challenge the black person/group's intentions for TALKING about the incident ie "yall just want attention or sympathy" or "yall just hate white people" and something about personal accountability, because no discussion about black people is complete without insinuating laziness and a lack of responsibility. :rolleyes: If I had a dollar for every time the phrase "personal accountability" was introduced to me as if the entire concept is foreign to me and my people I could upgrade every single one of you to VIP status. One member here alone has said that phrase to me enough that I could buy a new car. No matter what the topic, if a black person is involved you can set your watch to "blah blah personal accountability blah blah."

-I say the sky is blue some people will swear it's orange with green polka dots just to be contradictory

-provocation. nobody here has really done any actual research about police corruption and especially not about police abuse of people of color, they're simply being contrarian because that's the default response to people of color. see above comment about multi-colored sky

-different experiences, to white people cops are the good guys, because cops treat white people differently. for reference see every police interaction since 1776.

-we come from a culture that views black people as criminals and only command justice and accountability when the officer is Muslim and the victim is a white woman. Otherwise, "They had it comin." There is no more telling evidence of America's racist culture than the fact that the ONLY police shooting in recent memory that spawned public outrage, let alone charges, let alone a conviction was a muslim officer shooting a white woman. Accidentally. In the dark. The exact circumstances that would be dismissed as an honest mistake if he were white and she black. this is why a white man who murdered his family is being paraded around the media as "a good guy" and "a loving father" while a black father who punched a man that followed his underage daughter into a bathroom is sitting in prison.

-lack of education. as I said, nobody really researches this stuff they jump into the fray because it's controversial and fun to be racially provocative whether disguised as humor or just an act for the sake of poking the hornet's nest. It's as obvious as it is predictable. And it's the same people. every time. :rolleyes:

-denial. this has been America's response about its mistreatment of people of color since day one. Deny deny and then deny some more. I could post a mountain of statistics and videos and links and news stories and personal experiences and it will ALL be dismissed. All of it. It's sort of a running joke that [some not all] white people believe in unicorns and Sasquatch and werewolves and magic but don't believe in systemic oppression of people of color.

and finally

-discussing race makes white people uncomfortable. they feel as if it's an attack on whiteness as a whole, [which tells you all you need to know about America that even white people themselves subconsciously equate 'white' with 'racist' even if that's the furthest thing from the point of the discussion] which is merely a manifestation of knowledge and guilt about racism in America, to draw a parallel it's like a person who witnessed a rape but didn't intervene, so to maintain emotional stability they convince themselves that "the victim was asking for it, she shouldn't have been at that party, wearing THAT skirt, and she got way too drunk too so really it's her own fault so ultimately I'm not a bad person for not intervening." :gogirl: another common tactic to bring oneself back to equilibrium is this "some not all" nonsense. When all else fails, inflate reasonable or even factual statements to unrealistic proportions to make it sound implausible. "ohhhhhhh so you're saying AAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL cops are bad, right? ALL cops aren't bad. Why do you keep saying ALL cops are bad?" Which, again, I haven't, never have and no one's been able to prove otherwise yet. But as Jason was saying that's another common tactic, throw that spaghetti on the wall and sooner or later something will stick.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

We had 765,246 full time cops in 2008. https://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2016/07/24/how-many-police-are-there-in-the-united-states/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ionwide/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ee2933cb7191
That same year 1109 were arrested, that puts the percent at .0014 sounds like a bunch of good apples to me.

:rotflmao: This is the laziest reach I've ever seen. It assumes that

-cops are arrested at the same frequency with which they commit crimes which is laughably illogical and profoundly untrue

-that we can trust the police to police themselves

-that every time a cop does something bad they're held accountable for it

Chicago, LA, Florida, Baltimore have entire departments that are notoriously corrupt. But I know the aim of this game, neutralize black oppression, pretend it doesn't exist, cast doubt on the obvious truth of racism in modern America. I wish you'd at least have put more effort into your denial and deflection, am I not worthy?
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

You first.




You made some rather bold assertions about police officers without providing any percentages or similar contextual reference. I agree – You need some numbers.

He can't give you what he doesn't have and what doesn't exist. He can only demand it of others and then mock them for not being able to provide stats that he doesn't possess.

BTW, It is my opinion with nothing to back I up statistically, that most cops are decent people and most people of color are law abiding, honorable citizens.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

BTW, It is my opinion with nothing to back I up statistically, that most cops are decent people and most people of color are law abiding, honorable citizens.

This is so heartless. And misguided. Based on a few faulty premises.

-that condemning police brutality or corruption is an indictment of all police everywhere that ever existed

-that there's an imaginary quota where we don't have to be concerned until it happens to x amount of people. on 9/11 nobody was talking about good Muslims and bad apples and "select few," it didn't matter that there are over a BILLION Muslims in the world. We have an entire anti-Muslim culture, complete witht travel bans and vandalizing mosques, based on one incident.

-the idea that however few black people this happened to, their lives aren't worth concern.

The collective response to this topic is a true thing of disgust, contemporary men are immeasurable unremarkable which is why none of us will have a National Holiday named after us

MLK: Until all of us are free, none of us are free

Us: Oh, only 57 black people were wrongfully shot by police? Holla at me when that number jumps into the thousands. Maybe then I'll care. Maybe. But probably not. But maybe.

Just my daily reminder that black lives don't mean shit in this country. :rolleyes:

As for me providing numbers, why? So you guys can either ignore them or argue them down as par the course? Do you think your logic is a mystery? It's not, it's pretty simple. American culture dictates that black people are dangerous, violent criminals thus getting shot by police just comes with the territory. Let's say hypothetically I mosey on to google and dig up the actual stats. You expect me to believe yall won't dig your heels further into the ground? That yall will suddenly go "Ohmigosh Fab you're right this is a valid problem that needs addressing."? I'm not bright but I'm NOT stupid. I've been dealing with these kinds of "opinions" all my life and the themes are the same. White good. Black bad.
 
Re: ex police chief instructed officers to arrest and frame random black men

I'm going to post a series of articles and stats that I'm sure you all will hungrily argue, deflect and deny, but you can't say I didn't try. First of all, as has been said before, little is known about police officers committing crime in regards to the frequency because there is no database nationally that accurately keeps tabs. hmmm, men walking around with guns and authority and no real let alone competent system of checks/balances? that SHOULD raise alarms. but it doesn't. because most of you [STRIKE]know[/STRIKE] think you're immune to it. we don't let our govt or teachers run around unchecked we keep a tight reign on them and they don't even have guns. But I digress.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/595kv3/police-crime-database

Twelve years ago, a criminal justice master’s student named Philip Stinson got into an argument with his grad school classmates about how often police officers committed crimes. His peers, many of whom were cops themselves, thought police crime was rare, but Stinson, himself a former cop and attorney, thought the problem was bigger than anyone knew. He bet a pint of ale that he could prove it.

On Tuesday, Stinson made good on his bet with an extensive police crime database offering the most comprehensive look ever at how often American cops are arrested, as well as some early insights into the consequences they face for breaking the laws they’re supposed to enforce.

The data set includes 8,006 arrest incidents resulting in 13,623 charges involving 6,596 police officers from 2005 through 2012, with more years of data to come. Nearly half these incidents, Stinson and his research team concluded, were violent.

The data covers 2,830 state, local, and special law enforcement agencies across all 50 states plus Washington, D.C. That’s just a fraction of the approximately 18,000 law enforcement agencies and 1.1 million sworn officers in the U.S., so the data set is not comprehensive, but it’s the most extensive and ambitious look at cop crime to date.

“It’s not as rare as you might think. It happens at all stages of officers’ careers, and at all ranks,” Stinson said.
 
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