9/11

[GL]

GL247 - please also remember that it wasnt just Americans who died that day. It was Brits, Germans, Arabs, Muslims, Christians etc....

Joe, I do remember that it was not only Americans who perished that day. But it cannot be argued that this tragedy happened on American soil. As such I think we as a nation are entitled to look upon this collective sadness as we do.

 

[techboywi]

The events of 9/11 are tragic, to stay the least. Were mistakes made prior to 9/11? Yes. Could of it been prevented? Maybe... Remember, hindsight is 20/20. We can look back now and realzie all the mistakes we made prior to 9/11, same goes for things like Hurricane Katrina.

Did the Bush administration attack the WTC? NO. Were they behind the plot in any way? No. That acusation is just plan silly. The movies and specials that are out, or will be coming out can be a good way of dealing with those events, and learning from our mistakes. Its finally time for movies like "World Trade Center" and "United 93". Had they come out in, say October of 2001, then yes, it would of been in poor taste.

And, to the person who said America is a "Crybaby"? How DARE you make such a heartless statement like that? This is the worst tragedy to hit anywhere in the world since, probably Peral Harbor. We mourn the loss of nearly 3,000 lives. We mourn for the families who lost their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers. That is not being a "crybaby" That is out of recpet for the lives lost.

 

[techboywi]

It's over-hyped, over-glorified, over-done. Hundreds of people die everyday in car accidents. Thousands die of disease or hunger in third world countries.

We need some perspective on this. It made a great news event. It was a spectacular attack, but 3000 people is not a major death toll relatively speaking.

God..another cold, heartless statement. 3,000 people died at ONCE in ONE place at ONE time. Not over a week, month, a year. This was a sinister plot brought on by martars who despise everything America stands for. 3,000 is not a major death toll?? What is then? What if 10,000 died, would that be a "major death toll"?

 

[Christopherb36]

Wow..is it Monday again?

 

[james1200]

^^while i agree horrible things have happened to other countries that rival 9/11, don't undercut your argument by using the dresden bombings...read your history books again. we were at war with a (at the time) a savage country whose ally directly attacked us at pearl harbor and which was busy exterminating 6 million people in ovens...if there ever has been a moral justification for going to war, it was against nazi germany. and let's not forget that the german people elected hitler and gave themselves up to fascism happily and willingly so they need to accept responsiblilty for what happened to them at dresden.

 

[DiaryOfAMadman]

You know, living 10 mins outside of Manhattan I'm going to sit here and agree in most part Tadzio. The only differnce is that I care more about the citizens of any country more then I do a piece of dog shit, just because I value human life a little higher then dog feces. (not that i'm impling that was ment by Tadizio, but just clarifying that so as I'm not misunderstood by anyone) Yes people have to move on, there's no reason to live in the past for anyting we've ever experienced in life. Everyday when I go past the WTC site, I wish they would do something already with that gaping hole in the ground, cause it does bring back some bad memeories.

Plus I agree that its about life as a total that sould be mourned, but then again only for so long. In recent history, the US only suffers 1 bad foreign attack every 50-60 years or so, witch isn't bad (OKC I'm not counting because it was Americans who did it). I find Hurricane Katrina fare worst then 9/11 on terms on tragedy as an American. The one thing I hated about 9/11 wasa it made me scared of "foreign attack" for the first time in my life. But again, you just have to move on wiht life.

Look at the Tsunami one of the worst Human diasters in the past 60 years. Between the Nazi Holocaust, Stalin's 20 million murders, the Union Carbide incident in India off the top of my head, Chernobyl (yea I spelled it wrong), Atomic Bomb's One and Two, and the Pacific Tsunami. I mean while upsetting for Americans it really sits low on the list of human tragedy of recent history.

I'm not knocking it, but its really someting people have to move on from. Hey in the course of a lifetime you loose most of those close to you and yet you have to move on. Large scale tragedy is no different.

 

[james1200]

when they signed up - they KNEW that this was what they were training for - they KNEW that one day they may have to lie down their lives, so that innocent civilians dont have to. They get PAID to defend our rights and our way of life.

are you serious? i don't know what it's like in england but here, our troops signed up to DEFEND our country...not attack a nation that has NEVER attacked us so our president can get rid of a dictator that insulted his family a decade ago...we are not cesar's rome...we don't live at the whim of a dictator who can do what he wants with our army. and yet maybe we do since we went into iraq at georgie's whim and nothing else...and if you think we have the resources to subjugate iraq, afgahinstan, iran and syria, you're as crazy as george bush...thank god that people in this country seem to be waking up!

 

[DiaryOfAMadman]

Not true james,

3 of my firiends who graguated HS with me and enlisted in the Army right afterwareds in August 2001 all knew what they would potentially put their lives on the line for. Wiether or not the world looks at it as right or wrong they knew they would have to follow orders and defend the "intrests" of the country not the nation itslef. There was talk about war in Iraq before Bush was elected and before they enlisted. Vietnam is still in the minds of America and ever American has learned that a war can be fought for seemingly no reason whatsoever. Plus I'll tell you that they all Proudly served in Iraq regardless of their feelings about politics. When your fighting people in war, you have to stop thinking and "SURVIVE" and do what you have to do. They're not going to stand around the desert and get shot because they don't beleive in the reasons leading to the war.

Now I'll side with you and say that people who signed up for the "National Guard" should not have been sent to Iraq. Their job is to domesticaly guard the nation. However 2 of my friends who jointed the National Guard..... One was sent for battle in Iraq and the other sent to Germany. They were both dumbfounded.

Now I'll poudly say that all 4 of my friends survived Iraq, however one of them was hit by shrapnel in his arm and lost some of the function and feeling in his arm. Other then that they did their job and served proudly, regardless of the reason for war. Talk to any of them and you'll learn that NONE OF THEM CHOOSE WAR, BUT NOTHING WILL STOP THEM FROM DOING THEIR JOB.

"One man's solider, is another man's terriorist" War will always be a Loose/Loose situation.

 

[james1200]

i know that our troops can't pick and choose when to fight nor should they be able to...and i know that most of them serve proudly. but you know what, it is their responsiblity, if they truly love their country, to speak out when they believe what we are doing is immoral...once they come back. i know they can't while they're serving...those who went into afghanistan have a reason to be proud...they overthrew a fascist government that directly helped kill 3000 americans...your friends have no reason to be proud of going to iraq...they helped decimate a country for no reason....they killed thousands of iraqi's for no reason...they lost 3000of their fellow american troops for NO REASON.

because of the actions of our great retard of a leader, the true lesson of 9/11 seems to be that when attacked by nation A, the U.S. is going to go nuts and retaliate against not only nation A but nation B.

 

[james1200]

civilians die in a war...what exactly would you have like the western allies to do when the axis powers attacked...bend over and take it? you fight back in a war...and when it's an enemy as powerful and deadly as nazi germany, you destroy as much of it as you can before you send troops in...otherwise, they'll be waiting for you when you invade...and our first priority in ww2 was getting our troops in as safely as possible, and ending the war as quickly as possible. you wanna talk about how many russian civilians the germans killed? you wanna talk about how many chinese civilians the japanese killed? you wanna answer about what happened to the jews? were we supposed to thank germany for wanting to conquer us and get on our knees while their troops kept marching west? and do you think germany would have treated us as kindly as we treated the civilians after we invaded?

and before i forget, a lot of civilians die in countries like nazi germany cause countries like it (and iran, syria etc.) hide military installations in civilian areas...cause they are governed by people that answer to no one...you think we aren't morally superior to rats like that??

 

[Fire]

I'll probably spend most of my 9/11 with my family, watching 9/11 programs because 9/11 changed everything and watching 9/11 programs reminds me of how sad I was and I think it's important to remember 9/11.

 

[techboywi]

Jesus Christ... dont you get it? Youre saying an act of nature isnt as bad as an act of ill-will. That means youre more concerned with the fact that America was attacked than the fact that people died. Because the death toll and destruction from the tsunami was much higher. But that isnt really being talked about still like 9/11 is.

Umm...re-read what I said. I merely pointed out that the tsumani was a act of nature, 9/11 was a deliberate act. I made no statement as to which one was worse. Please read before posting.

 

[pacz]

It was the one historic event that totally affected me. I will spend the day in mourning, just going throught life. At some point, I will break down in tears. I can't believe it has been 5 years.

 

[looseliam]

I have no flames to add (although I'd like to...);

I got this today in my military.com newsletter. I think it's kind of neat.

Navy Retiree Drives Mobile Memorial to 9/11 Attack Sites

 

[james1200]

it has no more flaws than an ideolgy like yours that pretends that all political philosophies are equal and war is always wrong...even against fascists and murderers. even if i accept your analysis that we were at war with al qaeda and they were simply striking back at new york for some aggression we commited against them, are you going to tell me that us striking against a country in ww2 that embraced nazism and the extermination of an entire race (and that attacked us first) and us fighting against an organization now that has a "convert to islam or die mentality" that is nazism redux is not necessary...are you seriously saying that if the cost is too high, we should give up our ideals of equality and give in to whatever fascist philosophy that comes next??...or are you simply saying that when we do fight wars, we should do so nicely...cause if you are, you are really, seriously naive...if al qaeda believes that we've commited some imagined slight against them and wanna keep attacking, that's fine...but i expect my government to exterminate them. if you wanna be so pc as to not wanna fight obvious evil when it wants to devour you, you live in la la land.

 

[Pegasus69]

This is so cool. I just used the ignore feature for the first time and it is so great.....

 

[chance1]

I think you said this quite nicely. Good to see other people not looking at this situation through rose-colored lenses.

Besides, Bushie said all there needed to be said at the presidential debates with John Kerry a couple years ago. During one of the debates, he snickered, and said "well, look where he's from!" (in reference to Massachusetts), as if he was referring to Kerry's home state like it was Iraq or something. An instant giveaway of the truth. Something sinister was behind the 9/11 attacks, and the people behind it are the ones acting all patriotic in the White House. So Massachusetts, watch out - you may be the next on Bush's, I mean, the terrorists attack list.

Bush ass-kissers, your replies will be ignored, don't even try with me. Thank you. Of course I can't fathom any gay person wanting to defend that retard - he wants to kill you too!

"Gay Republican" = biggest oxymoron; moron being the operative word.

The "situation" was the slaughter of innocent people. They died at the hands of terrorists not George Bush. Could have been a friend or relative of even you! Complain all u want about his actions as Pres, whatever. But don't dishonor the dead by going on your pathetic rants here - have some freakin' decency.

 

[Pegasus69]

I think that much has been lost during the past five years since that horrific day. As a nation we had to change our view of ourselves and of our security at home. We have children entering thier teen years with this horrific event in thier minds. I remember the effect that the reports of the war in Vietnam had on me growing up. The manner in which this attack was carried out was quite different than anything we have ever seen before, either here in the US or anywhere else for that matter. This was an event that had a monumental effect, not just through the deaths of so many who were going about thier lives that day, or the losses of those who loved them. This was an event that paralyzed our Air Transit system, as well as those of other countries. We saw one of the longest shutdowns of the heart of our economy. We saw the emotional effects that this had, not just in this country, but all across the world. The world felt the effects of the vulnerability that the US experienced. Many felt that if this could happen here, it could happen anywhere.

This event is still affecting the lives of the American people and those who wish to come here. In an effort to try and "secure" our country some have felt it necessary that we give up some of our "freedoms" that we have taken for granted.

We have also forgotten what it was like to come together as a nation, to come together as members of the human race. In my life I do not recall any other single event that made us put aside our differences and to see each other as part of the human race, as a part of the human experience. I think that we forget that there are people of other countries that died on those planes and in the towers. We forget that there were representatives of nearly every religion that died at all of the locations in which these planes were crashed.

Violence is abhorent to me, but I do not see it as simple as "just refuse to respond". I don't believe in retribution, but I do believe a country must be proactive sometimes in order to protect it's citizens. If I am personally attacked, I will fight to the death to defend myself and my life, or the lives of my loved ones, or of an innocent individual.

If we do not remember the past, if we do not examine the past events, then we are doomed to repeat them. As has been mentioned, hindsight is twenty twenty, but "woulda's and shoulda's" cannot help other than to figure out how we conduct ourselves in the future. I also don't believe that it does anything to help trying to place the atrocities that man visits upon man on a scale of which is worse. If we could be inspired to respond to the mistreatment of, or violence visited upon, a single individual with the same sense of horror or indignity or passion that we do with these monumental events, just imagine how much better this earth would be. I am not talking about just here in the US, but all across the world.

I know that this is rambling a bit, but this is something that I just have a hard time putting into words. When I see people try to just shrug it off as "oh well", or "we got what we deserve" I get very frustrated as well as sad. I think that it speak volumes about the individual and thier egocentric nature as well as thier lack of compassion for others.

I also believe that if you do not like the US you can do one of two things: Get involved to make it a better place, either through the political process or as a volunteer in a humanitarian agency. You can also pack your bags and go to a place where life is as you would like it. We are doing something right when there are so many people who would like to be able to call this country home. We are not perfect and I doubt that we will ever be, but we do the best that we can and we are working towards being better.

 

[techboywi]

Cheers Pegasus! You are exactly right with your post.

 

[snapcat]

If some people don't cool it right now, this thread is either going to be yanked or closed. I suspect some warning points may be needed for some people.