A dignified death/ euthanasia

[codeerror]

Suicide help?
"Active death help"(active euthanasia) is the term used for injecting medicaments that lead to the patients death within a few minutes. Usually a mix of sleeping medicine, painkillers and a medicament that lead to heart or lung failure.

Passive euthanasia entails the withholding of common treatments such as antibiotics that woud otherwise prolong the patients life. Another form can be giving morfine to relieve patients from their pain knowing it will lead to their death.

When can, or should a doctor end life-prolonging treatment? Are there situations where a doctor should give patients a lethal injection, or help them commit suicide?

We are born. Most of us live 80 years or more. Aging starts in childhood and really kicks in after we've passed 60. We stop working, take long holidays and drink red wine. As we get older we get increasingly vulnerable and need more and more care and help. Most of us will die as life were, with or without family and friends, with or without pain, with or without faith, with happiness or sorrow. Most of us will die when sickness or age has convinced us that death is a better alternative than life. We get weaker. We stop eating and drinking, and die within days or weeks.

Not long ago my grandmother had a brain stroke. Of the people in my family, she is the only one I've ever been completely honest with, and told every detail in my life. I've been visiting her at the hospital every day since it happened. Although she has lost almost her entire vision, and the control of her left leg, we still talk.
A scary, sudden change has happened to my old grandmother. From being a healthy 89 year old, with a drivers license and a full schedule she is reduced to a mere shadow of herself. She has started to talk about death. She tells me that she doesn't fear death anymore, that she is glad she had this warning.
We talk about showing weakness, we talk about memories, and everytime I leave her we say goodbye as if it were the last time.

The essence of our talks regarding death is that she is hopeful. It is not hope of life, but hope of being seen, that someone cares, that someone loves her, that someone visits her, that someone will remember her when she dies.

The good news: Active euthanasia is forbidden by law in Norway. Instead my grandmother got this message from her doctor: You mean alot for your family and friends, you mean alot to me, we want to help you, we can reduce your pain, and we will get a room for you at a clinic near your home.

What if they offered her a medicine that would end everything?

It isn't possible to hurt a persons dignity more, than to offer to kill them.


Hope this made some sense, if not, I'm glad I wrote it anyway.
Im sorry in advance for any grammar-related mistake I've made in this post.

 

[bankside]

Do you think doctors would try to convince people that they should choose euthanasia?

I don't think it happens that way. I think it is much more likely to be the person having to press their wishes with doctors and family members trying very hard to ensure it is a substantial decision and not a hasty whim.

 

[codeerror]

In Oregon more than 400 people have come to end their lives according to the law there which allows this."
" Two women living i Oregon, suffering from cancer, got a letter from the health authorities telling them they couldn't have their expenses for chemotherapy covered by the State. In stead they were told that the State could cover the expenses if they wanted help to end their lives. The women got furious and according to local authorities the State was not allowed to send out letters like that anymore" .

It's not my belief that doctors actually force this on people. I think that the majority of people that choose it do it because they think they are a burden, or feel lonely. 9% of the people that die in the Netherlands every year die this way.

 

[Dutch182]

I'm a care giver to a parent with Alzheimers and I know that she would have chosen to end her life quick and painless rather than linger on for years slowly losing all memory of who you are and the people around. I am now at the point where I hand feed her as she looks at me with this blank stair. There is a very good chance that I will also succumb to this diease. When Mom no longer needs me I will take the last of my money go on a great trip see the world one last time and then I will come home and end it.

 

[Haberdashery]

Sad news about your granny.

I think people should die naturally be it in pain or not, even a long drawn out wasting away. I want a slow painful death but with all my senses so I can watch and feel the pain of this world slip away with me.

 

[Jack Springer]

Murdering yourself is not a dignified death. I'm concerned about the recent comments from Obama and what appears to be in this new Health Care/Insurance bill before Congress regarding the obligation of the elderly and ill.

It's not your choice when life ends. If we go down the road of government supported suicide (self murder) we are no different than the Nazis.

 

[quasar]

Well my dad died just over 24 hours ago, so this is very real for me at the moment!

Active Euthanasia is illegal here in the UK, however had the circumstances been different, we would certainly have looked at it as an option.

Luckily, the rate of deterioration was so rapid (less than a week) we didn't need to consider it - although the healthcare we authorised on Friday was in effect 'passive euthanasia' I guess.

What I CAN say for certain, is that if our dog was as ill as my dad, the dog would have been put to sleep a couple of months ago lest we fell foul of the law for cruelty to animals. There is something inherently wrong when we place more importance on an animal's suffering than a fellow human being's pain...

 

[bankside]

There is great Value in suffering, and we Christians keep forgetting that! Dignified death, Euthanasia, or whatever word you have for it, is still suicide, and it is never dignified no matter how you look at it. Suffering, if offered to God, has many-fold graces and can change another somewhere else who is on the verge of throwing him/herself into the pains of Hell. My opinion is from a Catholic Christian perspective on the issue at hand.

I'm sorry you Christians are forgetful! One of the things you seem to forget is that life sometimes ends before the body stops moving. To pretend that just because the heart is beating or the lungs inflate that your loved one is still alive, is devoid of dignity. And to imprison someone in his own body so that others can be edified by his suffering is not only undignified, it should be criminal.

Murdering yourself is not a dignified death. I'm concerned about the recent comments from Obama and what appears to be in this new Health Care/Insurance bill before Congress regarding the obligation of the elderly and ill.

It's not your choice when life ends. If we go down the road of government supported suicide (self murder) we are no different than the Nazis.

Provided he retains the physical capacity to act, any person with the faculties to reach a decision can end his own life. It is quite clearly his choice when life ends. Did you mean to suggest the government has no business deciding that in place of the individual? If so I agree. In fact, I insist on it.

For those who have lost the physical capacity to act, there are physicians who know it is important to act upon

• the carefully considered wishes of the patient
• to advance the hour of an imminent and certain death
• so as to respect the patient's wish to be spared the suffering and discomfort of a struggle with death.

Nothing is undignified about that at all and of course it should be legal, since as I've said, the government has no business to interfere, other than safeguarding that any action is as a result of the person's considered opinion in the face of imminent death.

 

[quasar]

When my Mother was taken off life support, they kept the feeding tube intact, she was gone within 10 minutes, she flat-lined. My brother had medical power of attorny. As long as the feeding tube is left in, I am ok with it, because she still had the chance to pull through when the plugs were pulled.

I am still against any means of euthanasia. Doctors are there to save a life, not take it away. Doctors are not God.

The problem with that - as in my dad's situation - was that due to the nature of his cancer, his body simply couldn't process any nutrients. Over this weekend, anytime he went to the toilet it wasn't body waste that was being passed - it was the broken down matter of his internal system. There was little point in having a feeding tube when he had gone into renal failure. His liver, kidneys and digestive system were gradually disintegrating inside him.

No amount of drugs would have slowed this process down - we were just unlucky that the cancer that had spread was an extremely aggresive type. Last Friday we (my mum and siblings) made the decision to stop any further tests or invasive procedures on his body, and to only allow drugs that would make him more comfortable.

I can understand how your belief in God and His teachings would affect your opinions, and I would like to say that my understanding of God is that he would not want such untold suffering - unfortunately, the reason that I've moved away from religion is simply that the more I understand the Bible, the clearer it becomes that God is NOT the God of kindness, compassion and love that we are brainwashed with at school.

When we question why God allows wars, famines, murder, crime etc to happen, we are told by theologians that God cannot step in and prevent these things because God gave mankind 'free will'. By equal measure, we therefore have free will to prevent someone from untold suffering. Or is God and the theologians being hypocritical.

 

[Spensed]

Quasar, I admire you for going into details about your father, I'm sure it must have been very hard on you to write what you wrote. I am preparing a future thread on the Effects of Prayer in the Catholic Understanding, and why those stupid theologians are wrong. I'll say this as an advance on part of the future thread: Prayer, when prayed with complete faith in the divine Providence, can and will stop Wars, tamines, crime (including murder). Prayer did stop Communism from taking over Austria back in the 1950's. This is just a brief preview, and I hope that you will be patient with me. Please read these things with prayer, and ask God to help you to understand things. We too often try to understand things that are beyound our minds to comprehend with out God involved. We too often try to see things through our physical eyes instead of the spiritual eyes. There are two Realities operating simoustaniously (spelling please), and that will be another thread in the future. Be at peace Quasar, Your dad is in a better place.

If God exists, I doubt he's an instant cash machine, where you punch in the right code and get the result you want.

I suspect the only true prayer is for a knowledge of his will and the power to carry it out.

The rest of it is pure wishful thinking and projection. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Spensed]

^ Don't disagree, if one sees things in theistic terms.

Obviously, the same or an analogous choice is available to atheists, humanists, etc. in terms of choosing to align oneself with the better side of what life has to offer nor not.

 

[thewiz]

One of the challenges with medical advances is that the body can be kept "alive" far longer than it is living. People "die" all the time but the heart is kept beating and blood circulating so that organs can be harvested and ultimately give life to others.

It poses a great conflict: when does a person truly die?

My sister was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer -- it had spread to her lymph nodes and she required radical masectomies along with massive doses of chemo. Prior to the breast cancer she had become an "ugly" person: my kids didn't like visiting her and we avoided going to her house. She had become bitter from two abusive marriages and a pretty loveless one she was in. She had felt God let her down and she grew alienated from all of the family.

After her chemo she suddenly returned to my sister -- the one I wrote a note to when I was 10 and she was first leaving home that said I would always love her (she had kept the note and her husband found it when he was going through her jewelry box after her death).

She asked if she could receive the sacraments and I talked to a good priest friend of mine who went with me, celebrated the sacrament of reconciliation and then had me celebrate the Eucharist with her. I cried and she did as I held the host in front of her and placed it on her tongue. She held it in her mouth for the longest time and remained silent.

She went back to church; she reconnected with the family and my kids even wanted to go to "Aunt Marilyn's" again. It seemed as though she was a new person until one year later she began to slur her words. The scans revealed the cancer had returned and was in her bones and, ultimately found its way to her brain.

Despite stem cell transplant work (experimental at the time), the cancer ravaged her body. I had talked with her and she said when the time came, to no try to prolong her life. We met with the doctor who delivered the prognosis there was nothing that could stop the cancer. After we left that night, she went into sudden cardiac arrest but her husband happened to still be at the hospital and he said to resuscitate when asked.

The next two weeks she spent on a respirator which breathed for her; feeding tubes delivered food; the cancer grew. Her lungs began to fill with fluid and the doctor said everything they tried was not working. I finally had to make the decision to take her off the support and allow her to pass, and got the support of her husband.

I gave her communion one more time before they administered the morphine to make her comfortable. Her eyes were growing cloudy as she struggled to get her tongue past the feeding tube and allow me to put a small piece of the Eucharist in her mouth.

She closed her mouth and her eyes and seemed to go to sleep. They administered morphine and removed all of the tubes and other support.

For the next three weeks she struggled as her lungs continued to fill with fluids which ultimately choked her. I saw little dignity in her death and we would not allow an animal to die as did she.

The night she died I went to visit her as I had done just about every day. I had repeatedly told her to go home; that we would all be all right. Interestingly, her granddaughter had been baptized the same day and I told her about it. I then prayed the "Hail Mary" and sang the hymn "Be Not Afraid" softly into her ear.

Her breathing seemed to quiet and her heart rate decreased. I kissed her and said, "goodbye" and that I loved her. Before I had reached my house, she had passed.

I have told my kids that I want a DNR -- Do Not Resuscitate -- order placed if I ever reach near her stage. She should have been allowed to die with dignity when her heart first stopped but instead medical intervention made a longer suffering both for her and family.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers Quasar...I know how hard it is yet there is a peace that comes with the passing.....

 

[Mariatenebre]

When my Mother was taken off life support, they kept the feeding tube intact, she was gone within 10 minutes, she flat-lined. My brother had medical power of attorny. As long as the feeding tube is left in, I am ok with it, because she still had the chance to pull through when the plugs were pulled.

I am still against any means of euthanasia. Doctors are there to save a life, not take it away. Doctors are not God.

Nether are you and neither is your religion. Point in fact you don't know whether your god is true or another god such as Krishna is true. Catholics or Protestants have no right to force a suffering and dieing person to continue suffering when there is nothing feasibly possible to save them and give them relief. Euthanasia is not suicide it is stopping somone from being in a state of pain and misery. If your dog was dieing and in extreme pain then you would put them to sleep as that would be the only HUMANE thing to do. So to is it the only Humane thing to do with Humans.
It is regrettable that any person should die and if I had my way we would be able to be immortal but that is not possible in the here and now (though if we had stem cell research the we would be able to cure alot of horrible diseases). However it is just as regrettable for a person to be in hellish pain with no relief or cure, destined to the grave and being forced to live in a state of suffering.
Any religion that considers suffering to be a good thing against happyness and comfort is truly a religion misguided and their morals are inverted.
Sorry for being so passionate about this but when I see anyone suffering it breaks my heart in two and I try to contrubute to charity to stop as much evil and suffering as I can.

Sad news about your granny.

I think people should die naturally be it in pain or not, even a long drawn out wasting away. I want a slow painful death but with all my senses so I can watch and feel the pain of this world slip away with me.

[Inappropriate text: Removed by Moderator]

 

[poolerboy]

Any religion that considers suffering to be a good thing against happyness and comfort is truly a religion misguided and their morals are inverted.

There's a difference between overcoming adversity and needless suffering in which a silver lining is found in it only on the basis of faith. Here we see another example of why faith is a danger: it isn't merely a consoling practice and often is applied outside the realm of religion into other areas of people's lives.

 

[Mariatenebre]

There's a difference between overcoming adversity and needless suffering in which a silver lining is found in it only on the basis of faith. Here we see another example of why faith is a danger: it isn't merely a consoling practice and often is applied outside the realm of religion into other areas of people's lives.

I completely agree with you on this one. Oft times religion over steps it's boundering and embrace doctrines of demons such as needless suffering. When the line between overcoming adversity and needless suffering is muddled then most surely has the religion become misguided.