A Personal Epiphany on Abortion, Not Religious, Not Political

[sixthson]

Well, this was a heavy way to start a lazy Saturday.

Thanks alot, Jason!!!

 

[seven_sins]

Hard-up, I never interpreted your post as a poll on abortion. It is not often than anyone airs out his family baggage in such a frank way. I think it is good for the soul to do it. You said that you are happy now. I don't think you have a thing to regret. I think you have your head screwed on right.

 

[chatolandia]

My mother had an extremely difficult upbringing in a very dysfunctional family, suffice it to say that only one of her brothers (through her mother) is alive now. Most of them died on drug related deaths.

Yet she found a way out of it, through the church of all places, and she has lived a successful and happy life.


But I often wonder about what you said, wouldn't it had been better for my grandmother to just have an abortion?

Wouldn't all the pain they went through and all the suffering that happened in her family be best avoided?

I wonder about that sometimes...


BTW I personally do not like the idea of an abortion, prevention is more effective. But since I don't get pregnant, I do not think my opinion on that should be law...

I rather leave that choice to the people that have to make the decision

 

[Appleseedpie]

Re: A Person Epiphany on Abortion, Not Religious, Not Political

Pro-choice

It's not an easy choice, but it has to be allowed

Yup, it's tough and sad but sometimes it's HAS to be done and should never be illegal. I just don't want women to think that it's some kind of empowerment. It's shouldn't be a shameful thing, but it's not something you brag about having the right to do.

 

[Kurn]

Don't rape. Don't even thought-rape. Treat each other with dignity. (Even if they are female.) What I mean is, we shouldn't enable Government to dominate the life-choices of our fellow citizens.

Ergo, choice is a legal absolute.
The law can enhance choice.
The choice of the woman: to bear or to not bear.
....This would mean that undue pressure on either side could be considered a misdemeanor.
The choice of the physician; to abort or not to abort.
......The physician has a professional obligation.
..........If a physician strongly objects to aborting there needs to be a way for the system to deal with this situation. One partial way would simply be for the present medium, the WWW, to have abundant and clear and impartial information for people confronted with unexpected pregnancy. Other information sources could enable appropriate physician choice. All physicians would still be generally liable for certain difficult cases which he or she could delegate to a colleague if needed.

Life is choices. America enshrines the "pursuit of happiness" in its constitutional essence.
This doesn't rule out "pro-life" intervention; it is to say that there must be a boundary beyond which enforcement will not go.

Thank-you for sharing, Hard-up.
In the near future there might be better strategies for helping "misfits."
There are numerous insights developing; some of them have to do with certain kinds of foods that are needed or needed to be avoided.
We are understanding the brain more and more.
So, whatever your genetic heritage, keep on living, guy!

 

[hotdog1846]

Wow, there's a lot of complexity and depth here, and I'm not quite sure which tack to take in responding.

HU1, I think the essence of a lot of the discussion about your epiphany revolves around the question: would't it have been better if I'd never been born?

I've certainly wondered that in my dark hours (still do, from time to time).

There's a Peanuts strip from the mid 60s, I believe, in which one of the characters posits that "it would've been better if I'd never been born", which starts quite a discussion that ran over the next several strips. And, that theme is central to It's A Wonderful Life.

HU1, I'm not sure whether you'll understand my line of thinking here, because I think some of your comments indicate a significant difference between us in many of our views.

If I paint a picture of 1969 in my mind, I see your dismayed grandmother watching her daughter ruin her own life plus the lives of several children, and now the oldest child is headed down the same path. It's too late for her daughter -- she's proven time and again that she "loosens lug nuts", and that's the kind of person she is. But maybe it's not too late for her granddaughter. She's about to make a bad choice, but often teenagers do, and maybe she'll grow out of it if she doesn't get trapped into a cycle of poverty and undereducation. Hence the remark about considering an abortion.

I think it's fascinating that your sister responded so negatively. That's exactly the kind of response I'd expect from a woman who's experiencing the natural protectiveness that expectant mothers should feel toward their children. It probably was heightened by your sister's desire to flee your mother's abusive household.

It's quite a contrast to your mother's indifference, maybe antipathy, to you. Something just isn't right about that, and I don't mean morally, I mean that something was probably wrong psychiatrically with your mother. It's normal for a woman to be very protective of her children, even those she doesn't particularly like. That maternal bond between mother and child is normally very strong -- "mama bear will always protect her cubs" -- and the absence of that bond often indicates something going on with a woman. Perhaps addiction, perhaps mental illness, perhaps a learning disability such as a severe form of ADHD. In any case, and remember that I wasn't there so I don't really know, but I kinda think that your mother's poor choices indicate a psychiatric deficiency rather than an exercise of free will to choose to commit sin proving the essential total, complete, fundamental depravity of humanity.

And in that, I think there's a big difference between your mother and your sister, and I think your grandmother knew that, although she probably didn't ascribe the same reasons as I do. Whatever the reasons, at the time in 1969, your sister probably wasn't grown up enough to tell whether she was doing the right thing or not, but your mother was way too old to be given the benefit of the doubt about that -- your mother had already proven that she could (and would) ruin other people's lives.

Sometimes the least of the evils is all for the best.

Unlike It's A Wonderful Life, reality seldom works out with such happy endings, and none of us will ever know whether it would've been better if we'd never been born. All we can really do is make the best out of what we have to work with at the time. And unlike fairy tales, children who grow up in the cycle of poverty, undereducation, addiction, and hopelessness usually take the path your sibling's children have taken, regardless of whether they can tell right from wrong.

It's the rare exception that escapes that cycle, and you're certainly the rare exception.

 

[darcey]

Each child sees their parent or grandparent with their own eyes, and that can cause some strange confusion. My family has had a similar experience.

As for abortion, the question is miss stated so often it has become a "hot button" rather than a well thought out view.
The question is "Does one support legalized or illegal abortions?". They will exist (& have existed)no matter how one views the act.

Maybe our schools & the parents should view "To Sir, With Love" & realize that children have to be taught how to live in the world. Too many 'parents' are trying to be their children's 'pal & not their guide.