On Topic Discussion A serious talk about the value of human life...

[zoltanspawn]

Or! We could start with some of the basics regarding the important distinctions of personal responsibility, sex education and birth control. And people not pretending that those have been given a fair shot would be a start.

I believe your program is as unlikely as mine.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I believe your program is as unlikely as mine.

Eh, time'll tell. Perhaps 'giving a fair shot' might be a bit of a euphemism. What I really mean is 'find a way to impress upon a very social creature with a short attention span and a serious mimicking capability that it would be in their best interest to take the fifteen second intervals that they don't spend thinking about food, fucking or sleep and concentrate on how to best enjoy those three previously mentioned with the minimum of disturbance or effort involved from everyone else.'

Imo, people spend too much time trying to convince themselves everything is fine behavior wise with the first three when what they're doing is shoring up the sense of self their circumstances/decisions have created. While ignoring the fallout. It's quite the conundrum. Seriously, though, there's been some really interesting notes on how humans react visually to ethical reminders, I think there might be something there to add to the general repetition and rote memorization of the various moral fables.

 

[Dominus]

And sometimes people just want their biases confirmed, never mind those pesky opinions that conflict with their own.

This is why my rule of thumb is if I sense the other person in a debate is not hearing whatbim saying I will simply agree to disagree. And sometimes, I run into people who for whatever reason won't be happy with agreeing to disagree. In which case I just agree with them. Why? I learned a long time ago that most people can't stand knowing someone else has a different opinion.

 

[luckynumbah7]

This is why my rule of thumb is if I sense the other person in a debate is not hearing whatbim saying I will simply agree to disagree. And sometimes, I run into people who for whatever reason won't be happy with agreeing to disagree. In which case I just agree with them. Why? I learned a long time ago that most people can't stand knowing someone else has a different opinion.

A debate is not just a sharing of opinion. An investigation of opinion could prolly be considered a description of debate. Which do you mean?

I mean, sharing is what I do when someone asks me what my favorite pizza topping is. Agreement with no shown forethought actually tends to irritate, I'm much less likely to go away until clarity/issue is resolved.

 

[Dominus]

A debate is not just a sharing of opinion. An investigation of opinion could prolly be considered a description of debate. Which do you mean?

I mean, sharing is what I do when someone asks me what my favorite pizza topping is. Agreement with no forethought actually tends to irritate, I'm much less likely to go away until an issue is resolved.

I'm sorry. Let's stay away from that from now on.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I'm sorry. Let's stay away from that from now on.

Nooooooooooooo, it's a good conundrum! There's nothing like identifying the distinctions in how people use vocabulary.

-tho perhaps not for this thread, it is a bit off topic

 

[zoltanspawn]

This is why my rule of thumb is if I sense the other person in a debate is not hearing whatbim saying I will simply agree to disagree. And sometimes, I run into people who for whatever reason won't be happy with agreeing to disagree. In which case I just agree with them. Why? I learned a long time ago that most people can't stand knowing someone else has a different opinion.

Lots of members here seem perfectly capable of engaging with opposing points of view, and some even remain friendly.

I think it's a mistake to cater too much to the fragility of peoples' pet worldviews; we grow by considering the thoughts of others.

There's something sadly juvenile about clinging to a comfortable echo-chamber. If people are merely polite, they ought to be able grapple with diverging ideas.

 

[Dominus]

I really should tell you that nowadays in my old age of 30s I really don't like to get into arguments or debate with anyone. As I told fabulala, I'm here to relax not to argue or stir up trouble. Full disclosure, if I notice someone trying to troll or bait me, I will add that person to my ignore list.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Lots of members here seem perfectly capable of engaging with opposing points of view, and some even remain friendly.

I think it's a mistake to cater too much to the fragility of peoples' pet worldviews; we grow by considering the thoughts of others.

There's something sadly juvenile about clinging to a comfortable echo-chamber. If people are merely polite, they ought to be able grapple with diverging ideas.

Agreed with this completely.

 

[peeonme]

Lots of members here seem perfectly capable of engaging with opposing points of view, and some even remain friendly.

I think it's a mistake to cater too much to the fragility of peoples' pet worldviews; we grow by considering the thoughts of others.

There's something sadly juvenile about clinging to a comfortable echo-chamber. If people are merely polite, they ought to be able grapple with diverging ideas.

I agree with you, I knew when I started this thread that I would get all kinds of different thoughts and ideas from people. We don't have to get angry if we disagree or even if someone can prove us wrong.

 

[Dominus]

I agree with you, I knew when I started this thread that I would get all kinds of different thoughts and ideas from people. We don't have to get angry if we disagree or even if someone can prove us wrong.

My experience with this is everybody says the same thing, that they have no problem with different opinions and ideas. But when it comes down to it, most people are a lot less tolerant of ideas different than their own. What's worse is once there is group think involved, god help the one or two voices that hold a differing view.

This is why I refuse to debate anyone on anything anymore. I also apologize a lot because there are over sensitive people all over the place.

 

[peeonme]

My experience with this is everybody says the same thing, that they have no problem with different opinions and ideas. But when it comes down to it, most people are a lot less tolerant of ideas different than their own. What's worse is once there is group think involved, god help the one or two voices that hold a differing view.

This is why I refuse to debate anyone on anything anymore. I also apologize a lot because there are over sensitive people all over the place.

You can't let others control you. If I have offended someone and I didn't know it I will apologize, but I won't apologize for what I think or believe. This is a forum, we are supposed to exchange thoughts and ideas.

 

[Dominus]

You can't let others control you. If I have offended someone and I didn't know it I will apologize, but I won't apologize for what I think or believe. This is a forum, we are supposed to exchange thoughts and ideas.

Again, this sounds nice and everyone claims to support this. But when a sensitive topic comes up that most people go one way, they will gang together to crucify the couple of voices that are different.

I'm not letting others control me. I will continue to have independent critical thought. But I'm getting too old to deal with the trolls, over-sensitives, social justice warriors, etc. Simply not worth my time anymore.

How about this. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is willing to admit he's a racist. Even kkk members will deny up and down that they are not racist. Do we really believe there are no more racists?

No, I am not changing the topic. My point is it sounds good to say you are not a racist and that everyone will tell you he's not a racist. But when it comes to it, Donald Trump made all the racists come out of the woods.

Anyway, I don't believe for a moment that people are as comfortable with different ideas as they claim to. All it takes is a sensitive topic to come up and we can see how intolerant people are of different views.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I think you need to read more if you've never seen anyone point out that no one escapes racist thought, including themselves.

And I know critical thinking involves discussing/debating/examining your own opinions, not merely listening to others conceptions of their own with a hoary eye. A discussion of one produces very little feedback. It's like a tepid glass of milk that quickly spoils in the sun. Smells off and tastes worse whenever it's encountered.

 

[Dominus]

^^^ It's not a discussion if one side refuses to recognize that the other side has a different view without getting agressive.

Anyway, I'm sorry for having brought this up. I'm going back to passive mode.

Apologies.

 

[luckynumbah7]

^^^ It's not a discussion if one side refuses to recognize that the other side has a different view without getting agressive.

Anyway, I'm sorry for having brought this up. I'm going back to passive mode.

Apologies.

....Right.

you realize silence after a simple question tends to give the impression you don't have a solid definition for many of the words you're using and encourages people to consider that you can't explain how you've come to any particular conclusion, right? That'll be an issue if you're 'stating an opinion' and refuse to define the terms you're using so anyone could get the gist of your speech.

It's also, quite bluntly, wormy behavior. There's a difference between 'I like the color green.' and 'I think abortion is murder. One is an aesthetic choice; the other involves some 'splainin'.

 

[nyctopgam]

A couple and their family living in extreme poverty in Joshua Tree was recently charged with child abuse and held on 300K bail each. Their crime was poverty.

 

[luckynumbah7]

....Right.

you realize silence after a simple question tends to give the impression you don't have a solid definition for many of the words you're using and encourages people to consider that you can't explain how you've come to any particular conclusion, right? That'll be an issue if you're 'stating an opinion' and refuse to define the terms you're using so anyone could get the gist of your speech.

It's also, quite bluntly, wormy behavior. There's a difference between 'I like the color green.' and 'I think abortion is murder. One is an aesthetic choice; the other involves some 'splainin'.

-and feel free to change the word is to isn't before murder, doesn't matter what way it's written. The point isn't to discredit opinion, it's to make sure everyone is using language in a similar way.

 

[Dominus]

^^^ You're absolutely right. I am very sorry.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

My experience with this is everybody says the same thing, that they have no problem with different opinions and ideas. But when it comes down to it, most people are a lot less tolerant of ideas different than their own. What's worse is once there is group think involved, god help the one or two voices that hold a differing view.

This is why I refuse to debate anyone on anything anymore. I also apologize a lot because there are over sensitive people all over the place.

I don’t know why you need to feel the need to apologize. There is a difference between being offended and just disagreeing, you’re not the only one I have seen confuse the two but I didn’t personally witness anyone being offended here.

I’m not bothered by anyone’s disagreement in this thread with my posts, even if it might look like it. I am just challenging a point of view that comes and challenges mine, which is great because we either learn something or gain a perspective we didn’t consider when it comes to a positive outcome of a conversation. Or it just ends up being a healthy discussion and nothing more.

As far as my interactions go in this thread I have no ill feelings towards the people that disagreed with me.

I think these discussions were interesting, even if it didn’t exactly go to the direction that t the OP thought or might have intended.

For me the value of human life is based almost on an individual basis, like how does that individual value life in general? And if I feel like they don’t, then I don’t really feel I value their life, for instance a serial killer, someone who abuses children or animals. That value goes down dramatically for those individuals.