Academic freedom and "reasonable accommodation."

[Vitamin]

You, of course, are correct.

Was this meant with sarcasm or not?

 

[opinterph]

I love that this is occurring in a faculty of sociology.

I agree. The nature of the conflict and the manner in which it is resolved easily generate a plethora of events for sociological analysis.

 

[Benvolio]

Was this meant with sarcasm or not?

No sarcasm, I agree we do not have enough facts.

 

[xbuzzerx]

No sarcasm, I agree we do not have enough facts.

Oh, is that why you simply made some up?

It is just as likely that he expected the entire class to be separated to conform to his religion. Since Allah, or whoever, requires separation, it should absolutely be done. Remember the Boston Marathon bombers were largely motivated by US freedom

 

[Kulindahr]

How then do you characterize a culture and society Alexander the Great would recognize?

Decadent?

 

[Benvolio]

Oh, is that why you simply made some up?

We were comparing probabilities, as shown by my statement, "It is justly as likely...". I was responding to someones speculation, as that quote shows. It is entirely legitimate in this forum to discuss principles, and we never, never, never, know all the facts.

 

[xbuzzerx]

We were comparing probabilities, as shown by my statement, "It is justly as likely...". I was responding to someones speculation, as that quote shows. It is entirely legitimate in this forum to discuss principles, and we never, never, never, know all the facts.

You could just as easily have made the same statement even if we had 5x as many facts because it was based on your prejudiced assumption of Muslim "real agendas" and not on anything present in the facts. You are presuming "what they really want." This is a slippery slope, not that you're any stranger to that fallacy.

 

[bankside]

I must say I have yet to hear a convincing version of "separate but equal" even though many apologists for the muslim faith, including women, have advanced that line. (more particularly, for the cultural practices of the muslim faith, which makes little difference to me, but whatever).

Whenever I have heard that argument from muslim women, it comes across as "I defer to my husband because deference is another form of equality." It's nonsense.

But we don't know the religion of the sexist at the centre of this story.

 

[Benvolio]

You could just as easily have made the same statement even if we had 5x as many facts because it was based on your prejudiced assumption of Muslim "real agendas" and not on anything present in the facts. You are presuming "what they really want." This is a slippery slope, not that you're any stranger to that fallacy.

So now you are telling us what is "present in the facts" which we do not have.

 

[Kulindahr]

You could just as easily have made the same statement even if we had 5x as many facts because it was based on your prejudiced assumption of Muslim "real agendas" and not on anything present in the facts. You are presuming "what they really want." This is a slippery slope, not that you're any stranger to that fallacy.

He's more a crystal ball gazer than Alfie ever was -- he thinks he knows everyone's inner motives.

 

[bankside]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...r-equality-is-not-negotiable/article16278726/

The York student’s request is based on cultural preference rather than any solid religious foundation. Nonetheless, the prevailing societal norm should not be set aside to accommodate a view that repudiates the efforts of countless women and men to ensure equal opportunity. Gender equality is non-negotiable. Furthermore, segregation is based on the false premise of “separate but equal”. It is also offensive to be told (as a woman) that a man refuses to deal with you simply because of your gender. Even the Dean of the Sociology department knew this when he advised Prof. Grayson to conceal the exemption from the other students in the class.

In Muslim communities, gender segregation has led to the marginalization of women, as they are shut out of debate, discussion and decision-making. Under the pretext of “religious purity”, women are discouraged from full participation in community development. At some events sponsored by Muslim campus groups, women are relegated to the back of the hall. At such events, men may freely ask questions; women are encouraged to write their questions on paper, so their voices won’t be heard. Some groups even forbid women speakers, or offer the excuse that there are no qualified females to address the audience. As in the UK, there should be greater scrutiny and debate of accommodations made to groups where gender equality is compromised.

I have to agree with this: separate but equal just isn't.

 

[xbuzzerx]

So now you are telling us what is "present in the facts" which we do not have.

We know the student asked for a personal accomodation, not for a restructuring of the class. So your statement was, and remains, your made-up fiction based on claiming some kind of mythical expertise on people's true agendas.

 

[Kulindahr]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...r-equality-is-not-negotiable/article16278726/



I have to agree with this: separate but equal just isn't.

Ditto. That said it well.

Not all cultures are equal. Some are indeed more barbaric -- I'm not going to say "primitive", because from studying a bit of anthropology I'm not convinced that primitive means lesser -- and some more advanced. And any that relegates any human to lesser status than any other is barbaric -- and thus lesser.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Ditto. That said it well.

Not all cultures are equal. Some are indeed more barbaric -- I'm not going to say "primitive", because from studying a bit of anthropology I'm not convinced that primitive means lesser -- and some more advanced. And any that relegates any human to lesser status than any other is barbaric -- and thus lesser.

Well additionally the 2nd bit of info Bankside provided gave away that this student didn't base this on any specific religious event, period, or practice, but rather on "general cultural practice." So that kinda fundamentally changes the issue imo.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well additionally the 2nd bit of info Bankside provided gave away that this student didn't base this on any specific religious event, period, or practice, but rather on "general cultural practice." So that kinda fundamentally changes the issue imo.

Changes it totally. I had to face seriously different culture when I went off to university -- it's part of the point!

 

[xbuzzerx]

Changes it totally. I had to face seriously different culture when I went off to university -- it's part of the point!

Yes definitely-- that plus, when you choose to go to college in another country, you pretty much know going in that the culture there is going to reflect the culture of the host nation. I was originally more under the impression this was a request to opt out of something like group work (something that college students notoriously hate for a huge variety of often valid reasons) or, perhaps, to be excused at a specific time due to a specific religious observance or holy period or something, which would have been different.

 

[Vitamin]

Yes definitely-- that plus, when you choose to go to college in another country, you pretty much know going in that the culture there is going to reflect the culture of the host nation. I was originally more under the impression this was a request to opt out of something like group work (something that college students notoriously hate for a huge variety of often valid reasons) or, perhaps, to be excused at a specific time due to a specific religious observance or holy period or something, which would have been different.

Of all the group work I've ever done in college the one thing I wish I could opt out of is introductions on the first day of class. Awkward as fuck.

 

[opinterph]

Awkward as fuck.

I'm one of those guys in the class who absolutely relishes those awkward intro moments. {EG}

 

[xbuzzerx]

I'm one of those guys in the class who absolutely relishes those awkward intro moments. {EG}

It's even creepier if I imagine you sitting in class as your previous avatar, the scary statue one.

 

[opinterph]

It's even creepier if I imagine you sitting in class as your previous avatar, the scary statue one.

This one?

https://forums.justusboys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=777658&d=1188612384​