Active Duty's Axl tattoo controversy

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

See my response and Dudoo1's post's.

If you are going to say my name, say it correctly dammit.

 

[Hellax24]

Re: Active Duty update thread

So now you're going to blame a "bad edit"? LOL

There is not one thing that was taken OUT OF CONTEXT in my post or edited to make you say something that you didn't say. You just keep deflecting.

Bottom line is that you are going to continue to feature a model covered in racist tattoos because it's going to make you a buck and you don't care to hear anything else.

You sir, make pornographers look bad.

Go ahead, refute my bottom line, tell me I'm wrong.

You are right on so many levels.

Sorry, but it's not an opinion.

You stated you ARE going to continue to feature Axl, a model now KNOWN to be covered in racist tattoos.

Your members like him and want to see more so the continued presence of a model covered in racist tattoos will make you a buck.

"I respect your opinion BUT..." is the sure sign of someone not wanting to hear anything else.

So the bottom line is FACT, not opinion.

I will, however, grant you that the line about you making pornographers look bad is INDEED my opinion (and I would have been surprised-- to say the least-- if it was an opinion you shared.)

I would pretty much say it is fact. They way he and Jasun attack when confronted with facts they give a poor showing of professionalism. If Axl is or was a NN then is having him do more porn good for him? What if some of his pals stumble across his pics getting spit roasted. However, Dink did imply if not outright say he is giving Axl a place to explore his sexuality. Because eh cannot do it without being on camera.

I would like to thank LoveFindsHardy for his summary of Dink Flamingo's comment at post number 602 above.

Dink may perceive that his comments were "truncated," edited or taken out of context, but that is just not the case. Dink's comments are well written and very clear. Dink may have one view of himself, but that view is in complete contradiction to his actions.

I am person of color, of mixed race. I am fortunate that I have not experienced much racsim or discrimination, but I am very aware of the social ques that make me uncomfortable. I'm also very careful to not prejudge anyone, to be objective and whenever possible, to give people the benefit of the doubt.

As much as I have tried to walk away from this incident with Active Duty, Flamingo's comments have made it necessary, once again, to express my opinion.

I guess it's best to describe my view of Dink Flamingo as out of touch, socially unaware and racially insensitive. For example, Dink describes an expereince of recruiting a black model as this:

Flamingo states that commentors believe that he is "lying" about this incident. Commentors are not saying that he lied about this. Actually, commentors are shocked that Flamingo has taken what appears to be a single incident and applied it, in stereotypical fashion, to an entire race of people! The Miriam Webster dictionary describes racism as, "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race ." Isn't interesting that the producer of Flamingo's other site, Amateur Straight Guys, caught ASG performer "Spence" stealing $7,000.00, yet ASG and Active Duty still hires white guys? I guess it's only bad when black guys steal?

Moreover, what I find really interesting (and offensive) is this statement:

Of course porn fans and members like him. He's perceived as good looking, a decent performer and now he has that "bad boy" quotient that so many people love. But that guys body is covered in tattoo's that many people find offensive. Regardless of the bad decisions that "Axl" made, his ignorance or his youth, for Active Duty to further promote him is beyond reasonable comprehension.

Dink Flamingo can't possibly be racist. He grew up in a diverse working class neighborhood, his family employed African Americans and he has friends of all strips on Facebook...it's just not possible. While I doubt that many of these diverse people are members of Active Duty, I'm sure they would be very supportive of his right to continue to feature and promote his new and popular performer with the racist tattoos.

I cannot argue that Dink Flamingo knows what's best for Active Duty. Regardless of what those tattoo's represent, you have members who can't wait for his next "scorching" scenes. And, of course that trumps social responsibility (yes, even for porn.) I'm curious, what would Flamingo tell a hot Latino, African American, Asian, Middle Easterner or Native American military man that approached him to perform for Active Duty? Sorry, I don't hire ethnic minorities (but guys with racist tats are cool.)

So, let's say for the sake of further debate that LoveFindsHardy truncated Dink Flamingo's words. The one thing that cannot be denied, is that Flamingo's actions speak louder than than his words.

Yup. I was going to post about the whole Spencer aka Devin Draz situation. Jasun thinks he's a gr8 guy and of course he is a pornstar that is on the incredible line-up over at Jake Cruise.

This conversation has lasted only four days--to suggest it's run its course in only four days is ludicrous considering it revolves around a topic as sensitive as racism. It is also ludicrous for posters to look for integrity and real sensitivity from pornographers. Sex sells, and controversial sex sells more. Viewers who take real offense to something as hurtful as symbols of racism are treated like whiny irritants who complain of chest hair on a model. Attacking the symbols and the decision to showcase them to make a buck is portrayed as crucifying the model.

How dare any of us be offended by either the symbols or the pornographer's decision to continue to make money off of them. Truly, everyone should just shut up and wank, and be thankful that we're even worthy of whatever scraps pornographers are willing to throw us.

They are in the porn industry anyone who questions them they attempt to make those people look small and unimportant. Since we're not suing the models on casting couches and excusing bad behavior to make a few bucks.

You can please some of the people some of the time, none of the people all of the time and some people none of the time.

You guys seem to only read and respond to what you want to pick out on this site. If you want to be more proactive respond to every point made rather than picking and choosing.

Keep it up, this is becoming entertaining. I notice NO ONE in the "AD IS RACIST" camp has responded to LittleDove's valid argument above. Why? Too true? Too hard to explain? What are the chances? Come on, ya'll got this. Get to it.

Oh wait, Cowboy Bob did. But it was only to seemingly throw in the white towel. Something he had REFUSED to do previous to LittleDove calling out Hellax. After going on and on and on he finally said something that made sense:

"Good grief, just how far do you want to take this? Volkswagen was started by Hitler as the People's Car. Go and picket your local Volkswagen dealership." He could have very easily made this same argument way earlier in the thread debate but he did not until it was time to defend one of his allies.

LittleDove, calling me out was just plain simple. Just goes to show what happens when someone only has a little bit of information. Grasping at air so he can go about jacking off to NN. Attempting to justify something anyone in their right mind and conscious knows is wrong. As they say "A hard dick has no conscious" As far as "AD Is Racist" goes your own words and actions painted that picture all by yourself.

Speaking of picking and choosing what to answer, deflection is not answering questions. I

CXXX

 

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

I rarely comment here, but i have been reading this thread for the last couple of days and I feel compelled to comment.

Now with that out of the way, i want to say that this Axl incident is now completely overblown. As part of my professional and academic interest i have studied racist groups, and I didn't even put those tatts together until Cowboy Bob called them out. Truth is, except the 14/88, i have seen all of the other elements on many non racist people. I know people who have these tatts and i haven't been bashed in the head yet.

The 14/88 is the key here. Let's recap the explanation given.

Axl was becoming interested in his Irish heritage, and wanted to get a tattoo symbolic of that. Fair enough.

So he goes and gets a Celtic cross. OK, fine. The Celtic cross is a very popular symbol among the White Supremacist crowd, but at this point it could be just a mere coincidence. It is interesting that he chose that, instead of, say, a leprechaun, or a 4-leaf clover, or "Irish Pride" or the Irish flag or a map of Ireland, but no worries at this point.

So he gets the tattoo, but decides, on this symbol that he has elected to showcase his Irish heritage, that he also wants a Thor's hammer. Thor was a NORSE god, and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything Celtic or Irish. It also happens to be, like everything Norse and Viking, an extremely popular symbol with white supremacists. But, we're told, he wanted it because it "looked cool".

So now we have a tattoo that was supposed to symbolize Irish heritage with a Norse symbol on top of it, and both of them are popular with the neo-Nazi crowd. The addition of the Thor's hammer significantly reduces the likelihood of the white supremacist connection being coincidental, but it's still remotely plausible, I guess.

Now, according to the story, Axl walks around with this tattoo for awhile, and nobody ever brings it up to him that these could be construed as white supremacist symbols. Again, unlikely, but possible.

Then he decides to get a "Viking Prayer" tattooed on his chest as well. It's actually a fake Viking prayer from a shitty movie, but who cares...it's "Viking" and in neo-Nazi land, "Viking" = "awesome". But, we're told, this too is just a coincidence. Axl saw the movie and thought it was so cool that he had it tattooed on his chest. He's now apparently far more into the Norse/Viking thing, which he isn't, than the Irish thing, which he is, but whatever. The likelihood of this being a coincidence has just taken a steep nosedive.

But the real clincher is the "14" and the "88". These are absolutely blatant, undeniable white supremacist symbols. Just google "14/88", or look up the wikipedia entry on "Fourteen Words". Yet we're told that the little naif was misled into getting them by a rogue tattoo artist who told him they were verses from the "Kolbrin Bible". (The Kolbrin Bible is an obscure "ancient text" hoax that nobody ever heard of until around 2004/2005 and apparently has a small following with the crazed conspiracy theory crowd). Yet if you look at the Kolbrin Bible, these notations make no sense whatsoever, as there are several books with chapter 14's, and none of them are divided into individual verses. But that's not important, because the official story is that our little Axl was DUPED into getting them. Apparently, he didn't think to ask what the verses pertained to when he was agreeing to tattoo their notations onto his body for life. And, again, we're asked to believe that he walked around like this without anybody ever noticing or bringing it to his attention, until the webmaster's call the other day. It's also worth noting that after allegedly being informed of the racist/anti-Semitic/homophobic implications of "14" and "88", he apparently wasn't horrified, wasn't shocked, didn't feel bad, and didn't hang up so he could rush out to the nearest tattoo parlor for some cover up work...which in itself says something about him.

I, for one, believe Dink's explanation, at least to a degree. For many, tatts are tatts, and we dont really scrutinize them. And now if you consider that almost every single one of AD models are tatted, i am pretty sure Dink did not pull out a magnifying glass and stare at each one, nor is he equipped with a "tattoo dictionary" that would decode each one for him.

I believe that part too. Rather, I have no reason not to believe it, so he gets the benefit of the doubt here.

Now as for Axl himself, I do not know what is beliefs are, because i have not met him. If Dink's story is true, then he is just a dumb kid. But even if Axl know what those tatts are when he get them, he might not hold the same beliefs now.

True, but a) if you're supposedly only 18, how much are your beliefs going to completely change in a short time, and b) if they did change, why isn't it a priority for you to get the offending tattoos removed or covered up? According to the story, he only recently got the "NN" tattoo...he didn't think to have the "14 Words" and the "Heil Hitler" covered up while he was at it?

For one thing, being homosexual is HIGHLY objectionable in almost every gang, especially if you bottom. Aryan Nations, Bloods, Latin Kings, doesnt matter: all are anti gay to a severe degree. So if Axl belongs to a white power gang, he marked himself for expulsion the minute he took a job as a gay porn model (and there is no peaceful expulsion: almost all gangs of that type mark you for assault or worse if you violate their laws, and I dont think Dink pays enough for Axl to risk injury or death).

Also true, but a bit of a straw man, as his actual membership in AB or another actual white supremacist gang is mere speculation, and you can have white supremacist beliefs and tattoos without actual belonging to a white supremacist gang. Also, how many dumb kids, and dumb adults for that matter, do porn, thinking nobody's ever going to see it or find out about it, only to be shocked when the school district or police department they work for fires them for it?

Second, Dink's models are based on military boys. I dont think Dink has answered this question and he probably cannot because of legal consequences, but if Axl is active duty military, that means that Uncle Sam has already looked into his background and determined that he is fit for military service, where gang memberships and racist beliefs would certainly be frowned upon. When you are in the military, you dont get to choose who you serve with, and you would serve with people of all races and religions, which i am pretty sure is not ideal for a white supremacist kid.

There are actually plenty of white supremacists in the military, especially since the recruitment standards were lowered when we needed more cannon fodder for Iraq and Afghanistan. Just go to the Southern Poverty Law Center website and look for articles that discuss extremists in the military, or google the issue. They have been trying to get the military to address this issue since the late 90's, without much success.

Some of the posters also point to the lack of diversity of AD as a sign that AD is "racist", which is just uncalled for. AD provides a product that cater to a set of customers, and that is what these customers want to see: clean cut (straight looking) military boys fooling around. Dink knows what his customers like and stick to that look. Would the commenters of this thread accuse other sites that use almost all white models (CF and SC comes to mind) of racism?

I agree to an extent, but that EXTREME lack of diversity (and CF, SC, CM, RB...most "mostly white" sites do feature an occasional black guy, unlike AD) is going to come under harsher scrutiny when the webmaster proudly features a model with white supremacist tattoos all over his body. Suddenly the lily-whiteness takes on a different tone.

Speaking of sites that feature ethnic minority models, their stars have plenty of tattoos as well, and would the commenter of this thread go and look through those picture and determine who on those sites have objectionable tatts? a gang tat perhaps? If so, would you protest those sites for promoting gang membership or behavior?

There is another site that has a guy with a Latin Kings tattoo on it, now that you mention it. But, vile as they are, the Bloods or 18th St. or the Latin Kings or Mara Salvatrucha don't exist to wipe out entire groups of people off the face of the earth, nor do they tend to glorify those who do...unlike white supremacists.

Here's the bottom line. Dink casted a model based on his physical attractiveness, and he missed that one of his models have objectionable tattoo. While we might never know the real truth of why Axl got those tats, and i suspect he might never tell Dink the truth, as long as he is in demand, Dink has no obligation to expel Axl's work from his site (after all, Dink already paid the kid, why should he swallow a loss because of an innocent mistake?) If you find Axl's scenes not to your liking, you can ignore it, or not subscribe to AD. But lets not paint Dink with the brush of racism.

He's under no legal obligation to do so, agreed. But I say, if you don't want to be painted with the brush of racism, don't feature a model with white supremacist tattoos and then, when it's called to your attention, defiantly vow to keep featuring him on your site, thus implicitly condoning white supremacy, racism, and anti-Semitism.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Hellax,

What do you suppose SHOULD happen to AD then?

What, in actionable steps, can AD/Dink do?

Jared pointed out it would not be objectionable for Axl to cover up his tats and resume filming. But Isnt that skirting the issue? Shouldnt AD then pull all his scenes?

But wait, what should be the next step? Should we look into every AD actor's background? Like i said before, many racists dont bother with tats. So as consumers of porn, we have no idea what the actors really think. A clean cut model with no tats can just as racist (or more) than that model with tats. Should AD pre-screen all actor's politics before asking them to film?

And what bout other sites? We all know Harlow Caudra and his site (which is now shut down). But what about Sean Cody? One of HIS models turn out to be a hustling psychopath that killed his girlfriend's client and run off with the money. Should SC apologize for hiring that guy, cut his scenes, etc etc.? And thanks to blogs like men of porn, we know plenty of porn stars who are arrested for a long litany of crimes. Should studios pull all those movies as well?

Or what about Next Door? Rod Daily proclaim that he is a Donald Trump supporter, who we know is an opponent of gay rights. Should NDS and anyone who used him before (that includes Jasun's former employer) yank his scenes and entire site offline? Should we look into the political inclinations of every performer and force sites to apologize if they are not sufficiently pro-gay? If a gay for pay star voted for prop 8, should we picket the studio?

 

[Hellax24]

Re: Active Duty update thread

No. Both you and Dink seem to see this as though the issue was too many blondes, not enough redheads, too many gay4pay models, too much barebacking, not enough cumshots, etc etc etc. This is NOT an issue of AD and its niche market. This is an issue of someone who has adorned his body in tattoos that represent violence toward gays, ethnic minorities and religious minorities. This is about (from this day forward) KNOWINGLY featuring and (gleefully) promoting that model and those tattoos.

This is WHITE SUPREMACY, it's not "too many twinks."

I can't tell you (a person who falls into ALL THREE categories on the Aryan Brotherhood's hit list) when or when not to be offended but I honestly don't get it. I'm a blue eyed WASP with a German last name and it offends me!

It's so hard to see the forest for the trees. Given all that we have discussed Axl and Dink are very compatible. Dink not realizing that this is a far greater issue then making a buck speaks volumes as you and others(myself included) have pointed out. But hey, i'm crazy, right.

I dont think it is endorsing his ideology -- because we dont know what his ideology is. Tats cannot be removed quickly or easily. If Axl has since renounced his ideology, we have no way of knowing that. That said, if he still holds WP ideology, then he wouldnt be taking it up the ass performing for a bunch of gay customers in the first place. The fact that he continues to be willing to work for AD (no one is forcing him to be a cocksucker on camera) can also mean he is denouncing that view or never hold it in the first place.

And if you find WP ideology so distasteful, then wouldnt it to be gratifying to see someone who espouse that idea breaking their own rules? I take an admittedly weirdly perverse view that if he is really a white supremacist, taking it up the ass is the ultimate humiliation, no?



Maybe its because i am somewhat innoculated by my study of these groups, but i know of cases people who grew up in an environment where that ideology is almost mandatory. They get the tatts, they grow up, they found out that they are wrong and regret it and eventually remove the tats. Unless Axl actually says racist things on camera and scream Heil Hitler when he is cumming, we should not assume that he continues to harbor those sentiments.

And to add: I have to say those tats are foolish, especially the 14/88. If i were a white supremacist, i would never get a tat like that in the first place because i know it would be social napalm. Trust me, the most racist of people and the most homophobic dont always tattoo their slogans on their chest.

If you are going to say my name, say it correctly dammit.

Sorry, But i don't think anyone was confused of whom i was talking about.

It is not my apology to give. I have no stake in this except to shine the light on a counter argument. As for as the model goes, now that you know he has the tats, you are ok with him modeling just as long as the tat is covered up? Why? You already know its there.

And i believe Dink has issued an apology on the longer post above to those offended in this quote:



I have given all my arguments on this issue. Tom of Finland disavowed his pictures and thats nice, although I always thought he was making fun of Nazis instead of glorifying them.

And if we are in the business of seeking apologies from porn producers for their model's beliefs, there are plenty more people who would need to apologize.

If he has known as many AF-AM as he claims and has relationships with them how could he be so indifferent to racial matters such as this? Also, i don't think a true friend would acts as if all AF-AM are thieves such as he has implied with his own posts. I know if he called me friend with those attitudes I would be ashamed to even say i knew him. Because apparently all us AF-AM are no good.

CXXX

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

The 14/88 is the key here. Let's recap the explanation given.

Axl was becoming interested in his Irish heritage, and wanted to get a tattoo symbolic of that. Fair enough.

So he goes and gets a Celtic cross. OK, fine. The Celtic cross is a very popular symbol among the White Supremacist crowd, but at this point it could be just a mere coincidence. It is interesting that he chose that, instead of, say, a leprechaun, or a 4-leaf clover, or "Irish Pride" or the Irish flag or a map of Ireland, but no worries at this point.

So he gets the tattoo, but decides, on this symbol that he has elected to showcase his Irish heritage, that he also wants a Thor's hammer. Thor was a NORSE god, and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything Celtic or Irish. It also happens to be, like everything Norse and Viking, an extremely popular symbol with white supremacists. But, we're told, he wanted it because it "looked cool".

So now we have a tattoo that was supposed to symbolize Irish heritage with a Norse symbol on top of it, and both of them are popular with the neo-Nazi crowd. The addition of the Thor's hammer significantly reduces the likelihood of the white supremacist connection being coincidental, but it's still remotely plausible, I guess.

Now, according to the story, Axl walks around with this tattoo for awhile, and nobody ever brings it up to him that these could be construed as white supremacist symbols. Again, unlikely, but possible.

Then he decides to get a "Viking Prayer" tattooed on his chest as well. It's actually a fake Viking prayer from a shitty movie, but who cares...it's "Viking" and in neo-Nazi land, "Viking" = "awesome". But, we're told, this too is just a coincidence. Axl saw the movie and thought it was so cool that he had it tattooed on his chest. He's now apparently far more into the Norse/Viking thing, which he isn't, than the Irish thing, which he is, but whatever. The likelihood of this being a coincidence has just taken a steep nosedive.

But the real clincher is the "14" and the "88". These are absolutely blatant, undeniable white supremacist symbols. Just google "14/88", or look up the wikipedia entry on "Fourteen Words". Yet we're told that the little naif was misled into getting them by a rogue tattoo artist who told him they were verses from the "Kolbrin Bible". (The Kolbrin Bible is an obscure "ancient text" hoax that nobody ever heard of until around 2004/2005 and apparently has a small following with the crazed conspiracy theory crowd). Yet if you look at the Kolbrin Bible, these notations make no sense whatsoever, as there are several books with chapter 14's, and none of them are divided into individual verses. But that's not important, because the official story is that our little Axl was DUPED into getting them. Apparently, he didn't think to ask what the verses pertained to when he was agreeing to tattoo their notations onto his body for life. And, again, we're asked to believe that he walked around like this without anybody ever noticing or bringing it to his attention, until the webmaster's call the other day. It's also worth noting that after allegedly being informed of the racist/anti-Semitic/homophobic implications of "14" and "88", he apparently wasn't horrified, wasn't shocked, didn't feel bad, and didn't hang up so he could rush out to the nearest tattoo parlor for some cover up work...which in itself says something about him.



I believe that part too. Rather, I have no reason not to believe it, so he gets the benefit of the doubt here.



True, but a) if you're supposedly only 18, how much are your beliefs going to completely change in a short time, and b) if they did change, why isn't it a priority for you to get the offending tattoos removed or covered up? According to the story, he only recently got the "NN" tattoo...he didn't think to have the "14 Words" and the "Heil Hitler" covered up while he was at it?



Also true, but a bit of a straw man, as his actual membership in AB or another actual white supremacist gang is mere speculation, and you can have white supremacist beliefs and tattoos without actual belonging to a white supremacist gang. Also, how many dumb kids, and dumb adults for that matter, do porn, thinking nobody's ever going to see it or find out about it, only to be shocked when the school district or police department they work for fires them for it?




There are actually plenty of white supremacists in the military, especially since the recruitment standards were lowered when we needed more cannon fodder for Iraq and Afghanistan. Just go to the Southern Poverty Law Center website and look for articles that discuss extremists in the military, or google the issue. They have been trying to get the military to address this issue since the late 90's, without much success.



I agree to an extent, but that EXTREME lack of diversity (and CF, SC, CM, RB...most "mostly white" sites do feature an occasional black guy, unlike AD) is going to come under harsher scrutiny when the webmaster proudly features a model with white supremacist tattoos all over his body. Suddenly the lily-whiteness takes on a different tone.



There is another site that has a guy with a Latin Kings tattoo on it, now that you mention it. But, vile as they are, the Bloods or 18th St. or the Latin Kings or Mara Salvatrucha don't exist to wipe out entire groups of people off the face of the earth, nor do they tend to glorify those who do...unlike white supremacists.



He's under no legal obligation to do so, agreed. But I say, if you don't want to be painted with the brush of racism, don't feature a model with white supremacist tattoos and then, when it's called to your attention, defiantly vow to keep featuring him on your site, thus implicitly condoning white supremacy, racism, and anti-Semitism.

Good, so we agree to a certain extant. You would be surprised how much a young mind can change about race and religion when they just start meeting other people who are not like them. Sad to say, but there are still communities across this country who thinks racism is a part of normal discourse. He might just be raised in such an environment and didn't really know people from other backgrounds until the ink is dry.

As for removing that tat, i agree thats should be first priority, bit who are we to tell the poor boy how to spend his money and tattoo removal is a very expensive, long and painful process and sometimes the ink never really goes away. I have a friend who has to laser her ex's name from her hip and it was painful.

AD casting a minority model wouldnt be a bad thing. For once i would like to see an asian marine. But considering it is hard to recruit someone to essentially violate the law to come film (you still cant film porn as a true Active Duty member, DADT or not) I think it might be harder to come by.

As for the tats themselves, i cannot explain his motivations. Of course, many of us have been talked into doing stupid things as teenagers, some of which even include tattoos. I suspect even Dink didnt know the truth. Maybe he did belong to a gang, maybe not, but you are never going to tell the guy who writes your paycheck something that might jeopardize said paycheck.

As for public recognition of said tattoo: if i see a WP tattoo i wont be confronting the guy, i would be crossing the street. So he might have never been told what i means by people who know and wonder why some people avoid him like the plague.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Sorry, But i don't think anyone was confused of whom i was talking about.


CXXX

Well, its about courtesy, but thanks.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

There is another site that has a guy with a Latin Kings tattoo on it, now that you mention it. But, vile as they are, the Bloods or 18th St. or the Latin Kings or Mara Salvatrucha don't exist to wipe out entire groups of people off the face of the earth, nor do they tend to glorify those who do...unlike white supremacists.

But ez, even if they are not racist they are still homophobic to the core and would take pride in bashing gay people. So WP = bad but membership in gangs that gay bash = ok?

 

[Hellax24]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Oh I'm sorry.

At what point did any of this totally hysterical clusterfuck of a thread start to make "sense?"

I must have missed that part.

Yet, you keep adding to it without anything to to add.

Hellax,

What do you suppose SHOULD happen to AD then?

What, in actionable steps, can AD/Dink do?

Jared pointed out it would not be objectionable for Axl to cover up his tats and resume filming. But Isnt that skirting the issue? Shouldnt AD then pull all his scenes?

But wait, what should be the next step? Should we look into every AD actor's background? Like i said before, many racists dont bother with tats. So as consumers of porn, we have no idea what the actors really think. A clean cut model with no tats can just as racist (or more) than that model with tats. Should AD pre-screen all actor's politics before asking them to film?

And what bout other sites? We all know Harlow Caudra and his site (which is now shut down). But what about Sean Cody? One of HIS models turn out to be a hustling psychopath that killed his girlfriend's client and run off with the money. Should SC apologize for hiring that guy, cut his scenes, etc etc.? And thanks to blogs like men of porn, we know plenty of porn stars who are arrested for a long litany of crimes. Should studios pull all those movies as well?

Or what about Next Door? Rod Daily proclaim that he is a Donald Trump supporter, who we know is an opponent of gay rights. Should NDS and anyone who used him before (that includes Jasun's former employer) yank his scenes and entire site offline? Should we look into the political inclinations of every performer and force sites to apologize if they are not sufficiently pro-gay? If a gay for pay star voted for prop 8, should we picket the studio?

This topic is not about ANY of those sites. Did Harlow have Aryan Tatts? Are the models you mention still working in the industry? Nextdoor has bigger issues then Rod's politics(Which could have changed) I don't believe that Trump is planning Genocide a global scale. I could be wrong, but i don't think i am.

You seem to have a firm grip on what the issues are here and this post wasn't worth your time.

CXXX

 

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

But ez, even if they are not racist they are still homophobic to the core and would take pride in bashing gay people. So WP = bad but membership in gangs that gay bash = ok?

When did I say that membership in gangs that gay bash is OK?

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Yet, you keep adding to it.



This topic is not about ANY of those sites. Did Harlow have Aryan Tatts? Are the models you mention still working in the industry? Nextdoor has bigger issues then Rod's politics(Which could have changed) I don't believe that Trump is planning Genocide a global scale. I could be wrong, but i don't think i am.

You seem to have a firm grip on what the issues are here and this post wasn't worth your time.

CXXX

But that is changing the issue again:

I have not seen the scene but i dont think at any time Axl sprouted his views on race on camera. So all we have to go on is his tats. So as far as we know he THINKS that way, maybe. Unless we have on record he committed a hate crime, his beliefs has not been translated into action, and a tat is still just a tat.

Harlow and the the Sean Cody guy KILLED someone, actually, physically killed someone. So by your logic, Axl's tats are more objectionable than either one, which makes "believing in racism (if he really does)" higher on the crime scale than actual murder.

My point is, if you object to Dink's model for his (observed) ideology, and for what you assume what he thinks off camera, then other sites should be accountable for what their stars do off camera as well. Harlow owns the site, but SC owns the psycho's footage. By your logic (that Dink by casting Axl supported his ideology) than isnt SC celebrating a murderer by keeping his scenes on site?

As for politics and Rod Daily, so just believing in anti gay ideology while taking it up the ass is somewhat less objectionable if he thinks AF-AM and Jews are ok? For me they are not all that different. Hating a community for just a community is all objectionable whether it is just 1 community you hate or 3 of them. Of course, conservatives dont want to kill us all, but probably because they know its impossible (at least not in this country, but look up "the family", Scott Lively, and Uganda). They just all want us to be second class citizens.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

When did I say that membership in gangs that gay bash is OK?

But, vile as they are, the Bloods or 18th St. or the Latin Kings or Mara Salvatrucha don't exist to wipe out entire groups of people off the face of the earth, nor do they tend to glorify those who do...unlike white supremacists.

Maybe i misread you, but in this quote i thought what you are trying to say is that "yeah, they are gangsters (who would kill the gays in their turf), but WP is worse because they want to kill everybody".

 

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Good, so we agree to a certain extant. You would be surprised how much a young mind can change about race and religion when they just start meeting other people who are not like them. Sad to say, but there are still communities across this country who thinks racism is a part of normal discourse. He might just be raised in such an environment and didn't really know people from other backgrounds until the ink is dry.

As for removing that tat, i agree thats should be first priority, bit who are we to tell the poor boy how to spend his money and tattoo removal is a very expensive, long and painful process and sometimes the ink never really goes away. I have a friend who has to laser her ex's name from her hip and it was painful.

Clearly this hoped-for "change of heart" is pure fantasy on your part, and I'll tell you why.

According to the website, the "NN" tattoo is recent. The "poor boy" obviously had money to have that done, yet he couldn't get a cover-up of those small numbers?
I'm not talking about laser tattoo removal, I'm talking about cover up work, which is an important part of every tattoo artist's business. Those little neo-Nazi numbers can easily be turned into two little hearts, or two little flowers, or two little hand grenades. If he'd had this complete turnaround in his beliefs as you're speculating, that would be his top priority, not getting "NN" added to the pantheon. At the very least, wouldn't he have attempted to cover them up with makeup for the porn shoot?

AD casting a minority model wouldnt be a bad thing. For once i would like to see an asian marine. But considering it is hard to recruit someone to essentially violate the law to come film (you still cant film porn as a true active duty member, DADT or not) I think it might be harder to come by.

I don't understand your reasoning here. Are you saying that a minority service member would be more difficult to recruit than a white one? Why?

As for the tats themselves, i cannot explain his motivations. Of course, many of us have been talked into doing stupid things as teenagers, some of which even include tattoos. I suspect even Dink didnt know the truth. Maybe he did belong to a gang, maybe not, but you are never going to tell the guy who writes your paycheck something that might jeopardize said paycheck.

"You are never going to tell the guy who writes your paycheck something that might jeopardize said paycheck." Bingo. Which is why I'm puzzled by so many people who are bending over backwards to believe this patently unbelievable story.

As for public recognition of said tattoo: if i see a WP tattoo i wont be confronting the guy, i would be crossing the street. So he might have never been told what i means by people who know and wonder why some people avoid him like the plague.

Who said anything about the general public? What about his friends, his co-workers, his family? And really...to even get to that point you have to believe the rest of the story that precedes it. So, you are honestly telling me that you find the whole coincidence-on-top-of-coincidence-on-top-of-coincidence-plus-I-was-tricked-by-a-miscreant-with-a-tattoo-needle story even the slightest bit believable? Really?

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Re: Active Duty update thread

But that is changing the issue again:

I have not seen the scene but i dont think at any time Axl sprouted his views on race on camera. So all we have to go on is his tats. So as far as we know he THINKS that way, maybe. Unless we have on record he committed a hate crime, his beliefs has not been translated into action, and a tat is still just a tat.

Harlow and the the sean cody guy KILLED someone, actually, physically killed someone. So by your logic, Axl's tats are more objectionable than either one, which makes "believing in racism (if he really does)" higher on the crime scale than actual murder.

My point is, if you object to Dink's model for his (observed) ideology, and for what you assume what he thinks off camera, then other sites should be accountable for what their stars do off camera as well. Harlow owns the site, but SC owns the psycho's footage. By your logic (that Dink by casting Axl supported his ideology) than isnt SC celebrating a murderer by keeping his scenes on site?

As for politics and Rod Daily, so just believing in anti gay ideology while taking it up the ass is somewhat less objectionable if he thinks AF-AM and Jews are ok? For me they are not all that different. Hating a community for just a community is all objectionable whether it is just 1 community you hate or 3 of them. Of course, conservatives dont want to kill us all, but probably because they know its impossible (at least not in this country, but look up "the family", Scott Lively, and Uganda). They just all want us to be second class citizens.

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO KEEPS CHANGING THE ISSUE.

I'm not sure what you are trying to do, but this throw everything but the kitchen sink at this and see what sticks reminds me of nothing more than a Seventh Grade debate class of the "How can you be a vegetarian and still wear leather shoes?" variety.

You seem to think that we can't be offended by RACIST tattoos (which are there, right there on his body for the world to see) unless we are willing to clean house and thoroughly examine the motivations and ideology of everyone in porn cuz, you know, it's not "fair" otherwise? Ludicrous.

For the 1,000th time, the motivations and ideology of "Axl" do not matter in the least. The tattoos he is wearing have an ideology all their own. They ARE what they ARE and they ARE all over his body like a billboard for white supremacy. End of...

As for this ridiculous straw man argument about the crimes committed by Addison and Harlow Cuadra, NO ONE is standing up and saying "These are nice boys and they've explained themselves to our satisfaction so we're going to keep hiring them, yay!" Would I personally like to see Addison's scenes removed from Sean Cody? Yes I would, but that's just me. The crime was committed long AFTER they were filmed, not before and not DURING. Sean Cody never jumped to a murderer's defense and Harlow Cuadra was employed by himself so what's your point anyway? This breathless argument (that we hold tattoos to be more horrible than murder) holds zero water.

This may come as a nasty surprise to you, but there ARE gay Republicans (even those who support Donald Trump.) I don't pretend to understand them but they exist and to equate them with white supremacists on principle only shows how determined you are to dig in your heels and throw any bit of hysterical mud possible into this ring to confuse the issue.

To state it one more time for you:

The Tattoos ARE racist (regardless of whether or not Axl knew it at the time and regardless of his personal beliefs.) Active Duty now KNOWS that the tattoos are racist and are offensive to people and they have chosen to continue to feature and promote the model with these tattoos.

It's that simple. You can continue to muddy the issue all you want with a hysterical laundry list ("how CAN you be offended by THIS if you aren't offended by THIS, THIS and THIS?? See, I've proven you're a hypocrite so that means the original issue no longer exists!!") but the bottom line is simple and clear cut.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Clearly this hoped-for "change of heart" is pure fantasy on your part, and I'll tell you why.

According to the website, the "NN" tattoo is recent. The "poor boy" obviously had money to have that done, yet he couldn't get a cover-up of those small numbers?
I'm not talking about laser tattoo removal, I'm talking about cover up work, which is an important part of every tattoo artist's business. Those little neo-Nazi numbers can easily be turned into two little hearts, or two little flowers, or two little hand grenades. If he'd had this complete turnaround in his beliefs as you're speculating, that would be his top priority, not getting "NN" added to the pantheon. At the very least, wouldn't he have attempted to cover them up with makeup for the porn shoot?



I don't understand your reasoning here. Are you saying that a minority service member would be more difficult to recruit than a white one? Why?



"You are never going to tell the guy who writes your paycheck something that might jeopardize said paycheck." Bingo. Which is why I'm puzzled by so many people who are bending over backwards to believe this patently unbelievable story.



Who said anything about the general public? What about his friends, his co-workers, his family? And really...to even get to that point you have to believe the rest of the story that precedes it. So, you are honestly telling me that you find the whole coincidence-on-top-of-coincidence-on-top-of-coincidence-plus-I-was-tricked-by-a-miscreant-with-a-tattoo-needle story even the slightest bit believable? Really?

I dont know what the truth is, that is why i refrain from only thinking the worst. I guess i am a glass half full kind of guy. But like i said, i believe dink told us what Axl told him. Whether Axl is telling the truth is another matter.

As for his friends, coworkers and family: assuming gAxl is a white supremacist, where do you think he learned it from? His friends, his family and/or his coworkers. So him having those tats is probably normal within his immediate circle pre-military and pre-porn, or even now.

 

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Maybe i misread you, but in this quote i thought what you are trying to say is that "yeah, they are gangsters (who would kill the gays in their turf), but WP is worse because they want to kill everybody".

Hitler killed 6 million of our tribe.

Most ethnic street gangs mainly kill the gays who are stupid enough to join their gang and then get found out. Yes, some of them hate gays as a rule, but they don't go around targeting the gays in their turf for bashing or death. That's not to say that individual street gang members don't occasionally gay bash or even kill gays, it sometimes happens and I am not trying to minimize it at all...but no, it's not the same as the Holocaust.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO KEEPS CHANGING THE ISSUE.

I'm not sure what you are trying to do, but this throw everything but the kitchen sink at this and see what sticks reminds me of nothing more than a Seventh Grade debate class of the "How can you be a vegetarian and still wear leather shoes?" variety.

Veganism and leather shoes are incompatible. Vegetarianism is not. Personally i dislike both.

You seem to think that we can't be offended by RACIST tattoos (which are there, right there on his body for the world to see) unless we are willing to clean house and thoroughly examine the motivations and ideology of everyone in porn cuz, you know, it's not "fair" otherwise? Ludicrous.

For the 1,000th time, the motivations and ideology of "Axl" do not matter in the least. The tattoos he is wearing have an ideology all their own. They ARE what they ARE and they ARE all over his body like a billboard for white supremacy. End of...

I am not saying you should not be offended. You can be offended. Hell, you SHOULD be offended. No one is telling you not to be offended. And yes, the tats combine to paint an unflattering picture.

What I also pointed out is that we have spent the last 3 pages of this forum condemning Dink for including this model, and I DO condemn the so many posts that seems to point to Axl's tatts to imply that Dink somehow endorses the same opinion. I am in the camp that believes that Dink know nothing of this until notified. His subsequent apology in the previous page is pretty thorough.

As for this ridiculous straw man argument about the crimes committed by Addison and Harlow Cuadra, NO ONE is standing up and saying "These are nice boys and they've explained themselves to our satisfaction so we're going to keep hiring them, yay!" Would I personally like to see Addison's scenes removed from Sean Cody? Yes I would, but that's just me. The crime was committed long AFTER they were filmed, not before and not DURING. Sean Cody never jumped to a murderer's defense and Harlow Cuadra was employed by himself so what's your point anyway? This breathless argument (that we hold tattoos to be more horrible than murder) holds zero water.

Who is defending Axl? Dink just told you what Axl told him. Whether it is believable or not, that his story and he is sticking to it. It doesn't mean that Dink endorse what is written on his chest and arms. Dink keeps Axl, (if he does) is probably based on his attractiveness and his ability to perform.

And if you imply that Dink's keeping Axl as a model means he is endorsing his beliefs, then other sites should be accountable for what their own stars' behavior off camera as well, whether it is before or after. Harlow's case is a famous and inaccurate example, and i apologize for putting them up, but Addison's case is a true example of a real murderer whose video you can see on SC's site. If you equate Dink's keeping Axl is an endorsement of his beliefs, then SC's keeping Addison's scenes is an at-best neutral position towards his crimes.

This may come as a nasty surprise to you, but there ARE gay Republicans (even those who support Donald Trump.) I don't pretend to understand them but they exist and to equate them with white supremacists on principle only shows how determined you are to dig in your heels and throw any bit of hysterical mud possible into this ring to confuse the issue.

I know there are gay republicans. I dont understand them but here they are, endorsing people who would rather subjugating us as second class citizens. But the vein of self-supremacy rings true for both. In Republican's case it is a sense of judeo-christian moral supremacy that claims that people who do not follow their beliefs are inferior and therefore do not deserve equal rights. (read: santorum, perry, bachmann) Their criteria of discrimination is as arbitrary as white supremacists (in GOP's case, its sexuality and religion, in nazi's case, its race, religion, sexuality and other factors).

 

[Ninja108]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Hitler killed 6 million of our tribe.

Most ethnic street gangs mainly kill the gays who are stupid enough to join their gang and then get found out. Yes, some of them hate gays as a rule, but they don't go around targeting the gays in their turf for bashing or death. That's not to say that individual street gang members don't occasionally gay bash or even kill gays, it sometimes happens and I am not trying to minimize it at all...but no, it's not the same as the Holocaust.

At the end of the day..they're both still murderers,whether they killed six million people or two. It should also be obvious at this point that everyone here is beating a dead horse. Use your wallet (as a couple of members have said they would) to complain.
Axl isn't the first questionable person to be in porn..and he won't be the last. The fact Spencer Reed is still in porn is proof of that.

 

[ezwriter]

Re: Active Duty update thread

I dont know what the truth is, that is why i refrain from only thinking the worst. I guess i am a glass half full kind of guy. But like i said, i believe dink told us what Axl told him. Whether Axl is telling the truth is another matter.

That's fine. Personally, I have trouble believing that this middle-aged, been-around-the-block smut peddler (and I say this as a middle-aged, been-around-the-block smut fan, so no offense intended!) is suddenly this naive, googly-eyed, giddy little lovestruck schoolgirl being conned by the smooth, slick, doe-eyed 18-year-old heartthrob. It's a crock of horseshit, and I believe he knows it, whether he concocted it himself or it originated from him the little Nazi kid himself.

As for his friends, coworkers and family: assuming Axl is a white supremacist, where do you think he learned it from? His friends, his family and/or his coworkers. So him having those tats is probably normal within his immediate circle pre-military and pre-porn, or even now.

But we're talking about HIS scenario, the one you seem somewhat inclined to believe, in which he's NOT a white supremacist, remember? For that to be the case, not only would he have had to have gotten every single one of those white-supremacist-related tattoos unknowingly, but he would have also had to have walked around with them, without a single person, including all of his friends, family members and acquaintances calling any of it to his attention...to which I can only say that you're going to swallow the rest of the bullshit story, you might as well believe that part too.

 

[BUD001]

Re: Active Duty update thread

Hitler killed 6 million of our tribe.

Most ethnic street gangs mainly kill the gays who are stupid enough to join their gang and then get found out. Yes, some of them hate gays as a rule, but they don't go around targeting the gays in their turf for bashing or death. That's not to say that individual street gang members don't occasionally gay bash or even kill gays, it sometimes happens and I am not trying to minimize it at all...but no, it's not the same as the Holocaust.

I agree with you there. But murder is murder, and hate is hate, and hate motivated murder is still that whether its one victim or 6 million.

In a recent conference a speaker was talking about the idea of memorialization of tragedies and the holocaust was the central object of the study. One of the participants of the conference actually said that Jewish victims should be the only one memorialized because there are more than 3 million of them, while others are in much smaller numbers. When i pointed out that gays died in the holocaust too he actually claimed that holocaust is for jews only and not for gays, saying ther word doesnt apply to gay victims. Like i said, murder is murder and if we differentiate "severity" of the murder by number than everyone loses.