Advice on BDSM Play

[chrisdobro]

I am generally submissive and not very assertive to boot. It's part of my personality I guess.

I have engaged into play with a guy where he tied me up. He did things like tickling me, mostly with his mouth. I am very sensitive in many areas and generally do not enjoy the tickling. He also told me to be quiet, and say no words. He whipped me every time I did, so I shut up. Then he told me not to moan, and whipped me every time I made a sound. So well I shut up as well. He kept saying that he is torturing me. Well .. okay. I was generally not very happy during the play.

One thing I did not like particularly was that he grabbed my penis as I was getting hard and pulled it towards my feet quite a few times. I've heard on Dr.Oz show once that guy's penis with age starts pointing more downwards. Well, if so, I don't want it to happen any sooner than it has to. I am now concerned that him pulling might have expedited that process. I am/was actually thinking of checking with a doctor just for reassurance that my penis is still okay. I don't know. Well, he also yanked on my penis while jacking it quite hard, and it now at the base it feels like it took a beating. I can still feel it the next day. The play ended when he tried to perch himself my uncut and quite sensitive penis, and I screamed out quite loud from pain. We stopped.

From what you might gather, I am a guy who likes nice slow gentle, reassuring sex. He is the guy who likes rough sex, bondage, tickling, with elements of torture.

By the way.. I know the guy, it's not the first time we met, but he usually doesn't pull this kind of crap. He does occasionally but not often, thankfully.

He saw my mood after the "sex" and told me not to even bother whining to him about it because "I could have said anything at any moment" (to stop whatever I didn't like). For me that sounded like a dissonance, because I am submissive and to say something for me during the experience would be assertive. I mean especially, that he told me to basically shut up, I would need to muster up the assertiveness to say something.

When I looked up the word Deference in wikipedia, submissive and assertive appeared to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum. I felt that he doesn't know what he is talking about when he said that I could have said anything at any moment, because I think that dominant partner must watch out for the submissive partner and use the necessary care, love and respect, because he has a level of responsibility for me. And prompt the partner to speak and check with him once in a while, or at least understand that submissive person will not become assertive all of a sudden during submissive play. It sounded to me like he doesn't understand what being submissive is all about, or perhaps what BDSM play is all about. Thus expecting me to say something, felt strange to me.

Now, my question:
* do you see the dissonance between me being submissive and assertive at the same time? Anything you can infer, tell me or educate me about BDSM and my experience here? Are my expectations generally correct? Maybe I don't understand this kind of play myself yet.
* and gawd, I hope my penis will be okay.....

 

[EJMichaels]

You are correct that he did some things wrong. If there was no discussion about how you would communicate your needs, then I'd say you both did something wrong. Being sexually submissive does not mean you don't take some of the responsibility. Keeping yourself safe is your job, too. Sometimes it's a list of activities you don't want, but sometimes it depends on how an activity is done, and you can't put that on a list so easily. Even so, there should be some sort of negotiation of the type of play you're comfortable doing.

I felt that he doesn't know what he is talking about when he said that I could have said anything at any moment, because I think that dominant partner must watch out for the submissive partner

My point is that HOW that happens has to be planned in advance. He shouldn't expect you to automatically speak up.

A good Dom will do many things to ensure your well-being (like things you mentioned), but before you start, you need to have an understanding that he's going to do those things and how. For example, if you don't like to make requests because it's not submissive enough, you need a way to let him know when he's crossed some line. Some Doms aren't as experienced (or as good) as the subs they play with, but someone has to negotiate these things.

When I first started in BDSM, I connected with my partners so well it seemed like they could read my mind. Later, I found it difficult to express my needs with those less good at "mind reading". I think coded safe words sound silly, so I use other methods to let the Dom know we've gone into unwelcome areas of play. For example, I tell them that when I've having a good time, I'm more quiet. When I start making noise, that's a good time for them to ask if I'm okay. The other thing I so is simply say "please." The Dom can chose to ask "please what?" at some point without making me feel like I'm not submissive.

Too often, Doms will ask "What kinds of things do you want to do?" and I say something like "I want to do what you want; I don't have a list." That's really not good enough, even if partly true. You have to give them something to work with. If you need a long warm-up before a lot of pain, that's general enough that you won't seem un-submissive for requesting that.

My comments have focused on what the sub should do, not the Dom. One reason is that it's not as obvious. There are probably plenty of books and articles about how to top.

I can dig up some links to good articles on these issues if you want. This site has many of the good posts I've found: http://dilokeith.wordpress.com/. There is quite a lot there, so I can narrow it down later. Some of it is written from a heterosexual perspective, but that really doesn't matter with BDSM. Two good sites to start - http://www.withinreality.com/essays.html and
http://www.leathernroses.com/lnrhome.htm (big site - see index).

 

[EJMichaels]

I ran out of time to edit my post.
Here's a good article on communicating needs:
http://trisoc.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/communicating-your-needs/

Here's an excerpt form that post that makes a point about providing necessary information:
"Finally, keep in mind that some wants and desires can get changed into needs if we don’t get them fulfilled soon enough ... If you know that a want is going to become a need soon, try to give your Master a “heads up” about it before it becomes a need so that he/she can have more control over when and where it is met."

Providing information is part of giving the Dom more control and ultimately letting you get into the submissive space you want.

Submissive Bill of Rights (from the same site as above)

http://dilokeith.wordpress.com/ is my site. To anyone reading - please let me know about links I should add to my resource list.

 

[justsimon]

Read this book:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/New-Bottoming-Book-Janet-Hardy/dp/1890159352/ref=pd_sim_b_3"]http://www.amazon.com/New-Bottoming-Book-Janet-Hardy/dp/1890159352/ref=pd_sim_b_3[/ame]

and find a better Dom.

 

[chrisdobro]

wow thanks

learning about this is an ongoing thing for me. I am getting the book from Amazon, it seems pretty cool.

With that I agree, I would like a better dom. The things this one says aggravate me to no end, more so then the things he does. He refuses to take any responsibility for the play at all. It's all "me". bleh. The one that got me as well was "I thought I was pleasing you". And I'm like "... no!". I guess communication between us is severely lacking.

I'll have a book for me, maybe I need to get him a book as well.

Thanks for all the links.

 

[EJMichaels]

The Bottoming Book is good, as is the Topping one by the same author. I need to start a book list for my web site.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I'm still a novice at this, but one thing you can try is to use a watchword that means "stop".

That way you can go all the way with "No! No! No! Please don't RAPE me!" and have the whole submission situation stop when you really don't approve of it anymore.

 

[KaraBulut]

That wasn't BDSM play. That was just sadistic. You're probably lucky you didn't get hurt.

There are a lot of rules in the BDSM community about safety and security. Take the advice given about education yourself and introducing yourself into a community that is willing to educate novices. And never get into these situations without a safe word.

 

[LoveIsNow]

The first thing is you need to drop this guy. He sounds very disrespectful and callous. If he's blaming you for everything, that's a sign of abuse- not dominance - abuse. The moment a guy told me "not to bother whining", I would have had him get his ass out and never come back.

 

[chrisdobro]

hmm okay.

I would like to think that some training and communication on both sides will help. But getting another dom who is more attuned to me might be better. I haven't tried that so I don't know.

I also wanted to add that I have passive aggressive behavior when it comes to a lot of things. In this kind of play for example I can passively put up with some pretty crazy stuff. Stuff like not enjoying myself and not saying anything and letting the dom have control. Later, that stuff mulls around in my head and I regret not saying something to prevent it, or the opposite - not saying anything to make something I wanted happen, and may become aggressive and lash out towards the dom, blaming the dom for things that might not always be his to blame him for. In either case, this particular dom blames me back for not saying anything and does the stuff I've already mentioned. Therefore I think he is partially right here, although I do not like his attitude and the way he communicates things to me.

If this passive aggressive behavior gives you new information, let me know. I imagine that not all subs are passively aggressive and therefore might not have the issues that I have.

 

[Lube]

I have engaged into play with a guy where he tied me up. ...

From what you might gather, I am a guy who likes nice slow gentle, reassuring sex. He is the guy who likes rough sex, bondage, tickling, with elements of torture.

...

Now, my question:
* do you see the dissonance between me being submissive and assertive at the same time? Anything you can infer, tell me or educate me about BDSM and my experience here? Are my expectations generally correct? Maybe I don't understand this kind of play myself yet.
* and gawd, I hope my penis will be okay.....

I'm trying to reconcile the first two paragraphs.

What are you really looking for, and why do you think BDSM is the answer?

 

[EJMichaels]

hmm okay.

I would like to think that some training and communication on both sides will help. But getting another dom who is more attuned to me might be better. I haven't tried that so I don't know.

I also wanted to add that I have passive aggressive behavior when it comes to a lot of things. In this kind of play for example I can passively put up with some pretty crazy stuff. Stuff like not enjoying myself and not saying anything and letting the dom have control. Later, that stuff mulls around in my head and I regret not saying something to prevent it, or the opposite - not saying anything to make something I wanted happen, and may become aggressive and lash out towards the dom, blaming the dom for things that might not always be his to blame him for. In either case, this particular dom blames me back for not saying anything and does the stuff I've already mentioned. Therefore I think he is partially right here, although I do not like his attitude and the way he communicates things to me.

If this passive aggressive behavior gives you new information, let me know. I imagine that not all subs are passively aggressive and therefore might not have the issues that I have.

Makes sense. There are D/s issues and there are personal issues. What you describe will be an issue regardless of the kind of sex you have. If you want to do serious BDSM and truly give up control, better communication is absolutely essential. Even though good communication is important in any relationship, it's not so important in other kinds of sex where pain, pleasure, control and risk are not so integrated.

You'll notice I've avoided diagnosing your partner. I don't want to make assumptions about his intentions or the relationship when I just have your description.

 

[erobert]

Good advice hear for subs

While BDSM play can be like that- both people need to be on the same page and into that. It's usually a good thing to make it clear to them what is acceptable during play. As a bottom you can be totally vulnerable and this can be a risky situation when you're with someone who you described.

He also should have been communicating with you about whether you liked that or not. That's very disrespectful for someone's well being to put it nicely. Bad tops/dom's turn would have been a good BDSM experience into a negative one.

 

[Seasoned]

I reiterate what has already been said. Stop seeing this guy and find someone who will respect your safe word. Indeed, the connective tissues at the base of your penis have been injured. Give it a rest to allow it to heal.

 

[dhchitown1984]

I can be very submissive in bed. I too, feel that yelling a safe word like "POPCORN!" or "LIBRARY!" in the middle of sex just seems awkward and silly.

However, it's important to remember that just because you're submissive doesn't mean you should accept being a victim.

Whenever I've had the kind of sexual experience like that, I make it clear to the dom: I'm going in fully submissive here. I'll tell you no, I'll play the role. But once my tone changes, and you'll know when it changes, I mean it needs to stop. There are no exceptions there.

And they've always gotten it, and they've always respected it.