Advice / Venting

[altlover85]

Welcome to JUB!

First, I am pretty sure that my parents would disown me, and there is a decent chance that other members of my family will do the same. Second, I am afraid that being openly gay will hurt my professional career in the near future. I don't want to disclose what my future has in store, but I know that being a gay male might turn off some potential employers. Third, I am afraid that my friends will think differently of me and maybe even turn against me.

You don't really give us a lot of information to go on and you don't really give reasons as to why you think that your parents will disown you. That said, it sounds like you might want to come out when you have some financial dependence and are away from your parents.

As far as being gay hurting your future career, it's hard to say if you are being realistic or paranoid if you don't at least give us a clue about what that career might be.

Regardless, it might be worth asking if you are headed into the right career path if you think that you wouldn't be able to be out in such a career.

Anyways, I just need some people to talk to and discuss all of this. How did you guys come out. Was it easier than you thought? Are you glad you did it? Do you have any advice for me at all? I know it is a very wordy first post, so thank you for taking the time to read it. Like I said, I just need some people to talk to and a place to vent a little.

Coming out was forced on me because of porn and a conversation my mom found when I was home from college. It ended up not being that big of a deal really because I'd already come out as bi before then.

As far as my friends go, it was a lot easier with them than I thought, especially the one who I thought would take it harder. But you never really know how things will go. I wouldn't expect them to go bad though.

I'm definitely glad I came out to my friends and I would say when you're tired of being in the closet, you'll find that it's a good time to come out. It's basically when the pros of being out, outweigh the pros of being in.

Good luck with things!

There's some great guys here who will give some great advice.

 

[Seasoned]

After 14 years of marriage and 2 children I came out as gay. The kids are great and I wouldn't wish them to go away, but I was in a kind of hell for all the years in the closet. That secret could have cost me my life in a lot of different ways. By that I mean suicide, HIV, as this was just prior to it's arrival, by car accident, as I was running around and often drinking and driving, and by hooking up with someone weird. I felt I was living in a pressure cooker. Having a secret and acting on it could have proved fatal to me.

My mental health increased by at least a hundred fold once I escaped out of the closet and began making sober decisions by the light of day.

As human beings our first responsibility is to ourselves. The closet causes damage and the harder I tried to hide my sexual orientation the more damage I caused.

The closet gives the message that gay is something negative, when, in reality, it is simply the other normal. Even the US government recognized that today with the removal of DADT.

Today, after 28 years in a relationship that will soon be a marriage I see being gay as a gift that comes with a price. The price is an admission to myself and others that I am in a minority by pure chance. That admission may have closed some doors, but, to be honest, I don't know that it has, and, to be honest, has opened many, including the largest of them all, freedom.

The majority of people in the Western world have positive coming out stories. Some face hostility, but the bottom line is that most human beings rise to the occasion when told that someone they love is gay. Those that can't cause great harm.

Covering up my sexual identity for self acceptance and the acceptance of others caused me to compartmentalize my identity and my life leading to fear, self denial and sometimes even self hatred. Since that's no way to live I could easily chosen death, as mentioned earlier, either actively or passively.

As I don't know you, I chose to write about the person I know best, me. I made my coming out more difficult and dangerous than it needed to be.

I wish you courage and good luck as you are confronted with choice and consequence. You may PM me any time.

WELCOME TO JUB.

 

[TX-Beau]

First off you didn't say anything that sounds like you don't know, all you said was that other people might not like you if you were gay. Which pretty much sounds like you do know and don't want to deal with it.

Which is fine. We've all been there. You will only go as fast as you will go. the world we live in is a very different one from the one a lot of us grew up in - so you'll excuse me if I say that you have a hell of a lot better chance of being an out gay man than a whole lot of people in here who came out under far far worse circumstance.

A whole hell of a lot of us came from extremely phobic backgrounds and still managed to have a life.

Why do I say that? Because what you are doing is rationalizing. Which is fine, we've all done that too.

The great huge secret about coming out is how few people actually care. Your employers aren't going to care so long as you make them money - and you know what, I've never been in a job interview where anyone ever asked.

People generally take their cues from you, and if you have a problem with yourself, you're actually far likelier to have problems.

Which is where I think you are, not comfortable with yourself. Which again, is fine. We've all been there.

But consider this, it's your life, your happiness, your peace of mind, no one can secure that for you - you have to do it yourself, and the first step to that, is to tell yourself over and over that if you are gay - there's nothing wrong with that. You just keep on telling yourself that until you purge the shit from your head.

 

[Ganoderma]

Now I want to start off right away by saying that if all you are going to do is "bash" me or tell me to get over myself, please don't even bother posting. Ok here we go...

Anyways I am almost convinced that I am gay, or at the very least bi. The trick is for me to come to terms with this. Let me explain why this is tough for me.

First, I am pretty sure that my parents would disown me, and there is a decent chance that other members of my family will do the same.

Second, I am afraid that being openly gay will hurt my professional career in the near future. I don't want to disclose what my future has in store, but I know that being a gay male might turn off some potential employers. Third, I am afraid that my friends will think differently of me and maybe even turn against me.

Anyways, I just need some people to talk to and discuss all of this. How did you guys come out. Was it easier than you thought? Are you glad you did it? Do you have any advice for me at all? I know it is a very wordy first post, so thank you for taking the time to read it. Like I said, I just need some people to talk to and a place to vent a little.

Hi Twinkbutt,

First of all, I would like to welcome you on JUB and on an important first step you have made by asking people over here for advise how to come out, and how to become comfortable with your own sexual orientation. Please feel free to ask as much as possible questions. Very likely, you will get a variety of replies of people from different backgrounds. People are not similar to each other, and that's ofcourse also the case with people over here on JUB.

You don't provide us with much background information, but it seems to me that you are living in the US (?), that you are around 20yo, and that you are still in a dependent situation with your parents (e.g. they pay your education and/or you are still living in the same house).


(1): any future job / carier you have in your mind. Excuse me very much, but I cannot think of any job, in particular jobs where a certain level of eduation is needed, where is would matter if a male is gay, straight, or anything in between, neither or this male is single, or married, has kids or no kids, has a male or a female partner etc. I fully agree with TX-Beau: a job goes about your skills, and not about your sexual orientation and/or if you are partnered or not.

I can only think of one exception and that's a carier within anything what has something to do with fundamental christians. I would like to advise you to stay far away from that kind of people / groups when planning a carier.


(2): your parents / family. You don't give arguments why your parents would disown you and would stop to consider you as one of their offspring. I assume this ideas of your parents are based on their religion? Are they fundamental christians? Quite a few fundamental christians are unable to cope with offspring that's not 100% straight, and who will not provide them with grandchildern and so on. There is nothing I can do on that. They need to change their ideas about gay people, and quite a few of them are unable to cope with this. However, you must realize that this is not your problem. They have made such a choice, and not you. You are a decent, a clever and a well-educated guy, they have narrow-minded opinions about gays. I ignore such people, and I don't discuss with them. Its senseless.


I would like to suggest you that there is no law that tells parents that they can keep deciding what their adult offspring has to do / has not to do etc. I mean, its up to you to tell them that you are not 100% straight, but you can also decide that this is 'not their business'. How about your brothers / sisters, how about your guy friends. You might also try and make some online gay friends and talk with them about various items.

Likely, you will be independent from your parents in due time. Towards my opinion, that's a good moment to be firm about their influence on the choices u make wat you do and what you don't do. At that moment, its not anymore 'their business'. Well-educated parents who love their childern know exactly what I mean. Their task is finished.

Nowadays, its not a big deal to be open; for you, change your ID from 'guy without a girlfriend, but with a history of some girlfriends' into another ID. Im open since the beginning of the eighties. It was no big deal at that time. Its still no big deal.

The most important item is that you should try to be very comfortable with your own sexual identity. Definately, guys who are very comfortable with their own identity have no big problems to find a nice and a good job (be it that they must have the other skills needed for that particular job).

Best wishes and good luck. Please keep people over here informed.

 

[EJMichaels]

People have already said some of the things I had in mind. I'll add that if you are concerned about what friends think, they aren't very good friends. I lost one friend by coming out, but it didn't bother me because I didn't want that kind of friend. I made new friends. I've been somewhat forced back into the closet and I can definitely say I was happier when I was out.

There's a thread here on obstacles to coming out:
http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349419

 

[TX-Beau]

Sugar, I went through this phase were I couldn't even write the word down for fear of "someone," picking it up and magically knowing about me - and at that period, there's no way in hell I'd have ever come in here because I would have freaked out "someone" would track it back to me.

My family are Southern Baptists - most of them didn't take the news well, but then I could give a fuck how they took it in the end. You need to realize that religion is not the proximate cause of homophobia, culture is and usually religion is just the excuse. God is not going to send you to hell, and you are not a sinner for being you.

It's my life. Eventually most of of my relatives got over it. Some of them shunned me at first, but I just refused to be shunned and made a point of making them as uncomfortable as possible whenever I was around them - and you know what, that's really amusing.

Familiarity does wonders for the phobic. If you refuse to be shamed and guilty, they really have no where else to go. If they want to avoid you, they have to leave.

But you're not there yet, you still have to work on you - trust me I know all the shit they put in your head, and truthfully the only way to get over that is to convince yourself they are all full of shit.

Get mad - doesn't it piss you off that a bunch of haters have forced you into this position. You didn't do anything to anyone and they want you to hide and hate youself for thier complacence and bigotry? Their spite and ignorance.

Say it with me - FUCK THAT!

 

[Rolyo85]

Yes, it is perfectly normal to be paranoid. It is also wrong. The world cares a LOT LESS now than it did a decade ago. It changes every year for us, and so far for the better.


That said, there is no sure fire method for coming out. As to your question of how we all did it - it's different for everyone. I've posted my own story in this forum - here. It won't hurt you to read it - on the contrary - but it won't be of much help either. Everybody's life is different, and coming out is one of the most personal experiences you'll ever have.

There are however a few things that are common for all of us. You will NEVER be fully satisfied with your life until you come out - to yourself in particular, but also to others. Nothing hurts you more than hiding this, and you don't even realize how harmful it is to you until you stop doing it. It's like you've lived in a black-and-white world, and color suddenly floods it.

Someone previously said something very true - if your career path requires you to stay in the closet, it is just not the right one for you.

As for your family - there is "traditionally Christian", and then there is "brainwashed Christian". The first will be hurt, and it will probably take time, but they WILL come to terms with it and accept you, because in the end every normal parent can't but love their child. They will adjust their views based on their love for you, not their love for you based on their views. Or it's not love at all. I've known a bunch of gay guys with strongly religious parents. None of them got disowned. If they are the second variety - well, they are psychotic and you shouldn't care what they think and should instead work very hard on running away screaming.

My point - which I've made 10 000 times on this board already, and will never tire to make it - is that coming out is only for you in the end. Nothing matters more than living your life openly and with honesty. If you KNOW that coming out in this particular moment of your life will cause too much hardship, then sure - wait until you have more security. But you have to KNOW that's the case, not simply fear it might be.

We've all been there, and we've all come out at our own pace. But I was 25 when I did it, and I will always be sorry I didn't do it as early as high school. It's never too late, but it's most certainly never too early either, provided, as I said, you are not living with religious freaks who will send you to straight camp.

 

[TX-Beau]

Thanks, you really put things into perspective for me. It does piss me off that, because I was born this way, I have to explain it to everyone. I mean, straight guys don't have to tell everyone that they are straight. I totally agree with you, though, that it is society that has put me into this box. But you are right, I do have to work on myself first. And thanks to you, and everyone else who was kind enough to post in this thread, I am beginning that process.

I really that thank you guys enough!

Good for you - just remember when things get hard and the fear seems insurmountable that you are your own man, and you are not going to let them win.

... others. Nothing hurts you more than hiding this, and you don't even realize how harmful it is to you until you stop doing it. It's like you've lived in a black-and-white world, and color suddenly floods it...

I love the way you phrased this. I planned on only telling one or two people at first, but the relief and the freedom were so great, I'd told just about everyone I knew within a couple of weeks.


twinkbutt it's also good to remember that coming out is a process, not an event. It takes time, but you can do it, and you'll find out along the way that the you, you are now is just a shadow of the you you should be - and that's what they took from you, and that's what you need to take back.

 

[hotatlboi]

aw, he left already?

 

[EJMichaels]

I was wondering about your disappearance.

As for advice, specific questions are useful.

 

[Ganoderma]

Hi Twinkbutt,

Welcome back again, and great to read you like the help various people over here have already given you.

Just take your time.

I can imagine very well that you suddenly had a moment of 'paranoia' and then decided to delete your profile. Its very good you grew over this feeling of 'paranoia', and I hope it will not return anymore, and that you feel now abit more relaxed about yourself. Reading / browsing to old threads can also be helpful to learn more.

Best wishes, and keep asking questions.

 

[EJMichaels]

I never had the idea that there was anything wrong with it, so accepting wasn't really an issue. I suppose it's different for women in that respect. I mean, I knew some people objected, but that was their prejudice, not how I felt.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well, one thing that I would like more specification on is how you came to accept yourself. I know that this is kind of a tough question to answer because it's different for everyone, but some real-life examples will still be helpful to me.

I got to the point where I was angry that I had to hide and lie about my life and couldn't just be some guy like all the straight guys I knew - I started telling myself that there was nothing wrong with me, that it wasn't my problem, and that I wasn't going to live like that anymore.

I know it sounds cheesy, but every morning you look in the mirror - tell yourself out loud that you are a gay man, and there's nothing wrong with that.

You're not going to be able to look yourself in the eye and say that at first, but keep doing it anyway. This worked for me - it took time, it didn't happen over night, but the truth is that there isn't anything wrong with you and in the end you can force yourself to see that.

The reason this is hard, is because we accept that being gay means we aren't men, that we're kind of emasculated lower women - and no one can know about our shame.

Homophobia at it's core is deeply misogynistic and tells us that the worst thing you can do is act like a woman, that's why it's wrong to be gay, because you are a man acting like a woman. If we accept that we'll spend our lives hiding and running away from ourselves. This attitude is underneath all that nasty things phobes say about gay men - even religious justifications.

To accept yourself, you have to convince yourself that crap is the shit that it is. It helps being around out gay men who are just guys of all kinds - from the flamboyant to the hyper-butch, you accept yourself by actually looking at yourself and seeing truly that you aren't what they told you, and never were, and whatever kind of gay man you are, you are still a man, your own man with your own life and you aren't going to surrender that to anyone.

Repeat all of that to yourself, over and over, look yourself in the mirror and say it to yourself - and it's going to be really hard to do this at first, and that's where your anger comes in, because that can really motivate you to take control of your life and fuck the haters.

 

[Ganoderma]

Hi Twinkbutt,

I also never had the idea that anything was wrong with me. I cannot remember that I even had any interest in girls.

However, I can remember very clearly that I had already interest in my classmates and in other guys when i was in middle school (at an age of around 13 or so). 'Checking guys', including guys during gym classes and in the swimming pool. At that time, I considered girls as something for 'lateron'. I had no interest in them, but I had alot of other interests as well. Like many other guys, and we never talked about girls and things like that.

I slowly connected my 'natural interest in guys' into the concept that this thus meaned that I had sexual interest in guys = being gay. I am not sure when this idea / concept became clear to me. Maybe at around an age of 17 or so? So no girls or so for me 'lateron'.

I never ever have experienced any problems / difficulties. It took some time before I openend myself, but that was also no big deal for anyone in my surroundings (including friends / family and so on). This happened in the beginning / mid eighties.

My parents had no religion (stopped going to the church and being religious the same day when they got married in 1955), and I only had friends who did not care at all (all were very liberal and far-left & knew very well what was going on at the world).

So that's an example of a real life experience from a guy born in 1956 in The Netherlands. I am still living in The Netherlands.

-----------------------------------

Twinkbutt wrote:

Well, one thing that I would like more specification on is how you came to accept yourself. I know that this is kind of a tough question to answer because it's different for everyone, but some real-life examples will still be helpful to me.

Twinkbutt wrote:

I have always known that I was "different" in some way or another. It wasn't until I was in middle school until I realized that I might be gay. Slowly I started to watch gay porn until eventually I was exclusively watching gay porn (I was watching straight porn before). I started to check out the guys in my class and the guys in the locker room after gym class. As high school went on I had a couple of girl friends, but nothing was ever all that serious. I am actually still friends with my last girl friend. Anyways I am almost convinced that I am gay, or at the very least bi.

 

[TX-Beau]

I wish it was like that everywhere. By the way twinkbitt, I'm glad you came back. Any time you need reassurance and support, when it gets hard, you can come here and we'll all be waiting.

 

[Rolyo85]

I don't know what my exact feelings about being gay were, I only know I fervently wanted not to be, and denied the truth for myself. Then, when that became unbearable, and I came out, I realized I had never really thought about it very seriously. And when I came out, it was like a switch was flipped. Perhaps I am just psychologically incapable of thinking that there is anything wrong with me, but I really don't believe there is. I am a man like any other man, more attractive than some, less so than others, smarter than many I have goals and ambitions, I have feelings and passions like everybody else. I also like dick. A lot. And that makes me happy, because I had to fight myself and win in order to admit it. Plus, being gay is just that little bit cooler than being straight, in an artsy decadent way

 

[Ganoderma]

I wish it was like that everywhere.

Hi TX-Beau,

A more or less similar situation exists already for some decades in almost all countries in Western Europe. In The Netherlands, but also in many other European countries, religious fundamentalists eg Pentecostals etc) are a tiny majority. Besides that, such people have excluded themself from the 'mainstream', mainly because they have learned to avoid any debate with people like you and me.

This all means that it is, in almost all cases, not a very big deal / a huge struggle for gays (and as well for lesbians) to come out of the closet / don't hide anymore their same-sex feelings.

Ofcourse, gay guys over here which are born in a Pentecostal family will face exactly the same problems as you had. Irrevocably, such guys will be forced to leave their family when they choose not to stay in the closet. But that's just 'part of the deal' for straight guys as well, when these straight guys find a sweet girl who has nothing to do with Pentecostals and so on.

More or less, this is similar how Amish people can survive in the US.

Even in The Netherlands, we have 2 mainstream political parties with members in the National Parliament (but only with a few seats), who have the opinion that being gay is immoral.

One party, called SGP, is a theocratic christian party which does not allow that women are an active member of the party. It is just very recently, that women can become member of this party. 'Women need to take care of the family'. The other one, called 'Christenunie' has 'no problems' with gay males who are single, but does not accept representative males to be partnered with another male (or female with another female). Both parties refuse to debate with non-believers, and also with neodarwinian evolutionists.

You, and others, can do alot to create and to maintain a safe and a relaxed way of living. Just don't discuss with this kind of fundamentalists, and just let them feel that they are similar like, eg, Amish people. Guys / gays who don't fit with the ideas of Amish people alsr 'run away'. So 'Pentecostals eg' can have their own gatherings where they can do what they want (sing as long as they like), but that's nothing of your business.

Best wishes.

 

[NCDogGuy]

Well, one thing that I would like more specification on is how you came to accept yourself. I know that this is kind of a tough question to answer because it's different for everyone, but some real-life examples will still be helpful to me.

You can read my long story here.
http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350828

The short version is that having been married for about 15 years, divorced at about age 37, and failing to be attracted to any woman I dated, at age 44 I could no longer deny to myself that I am attracted to men. Trying to meet other peoples expectations by trying to get in another long term relationship with a woman would be unfair to her, but more importantly, be unfair to me.

My crisis point was when I admitted to myself that I felt strong physical attraction to some guys at a swimming pool.

I like gay porn. I like seeing shirtless guys in blockbuster movies. I notice the man in a couple and rarely notice the woman.I solely fantasize about men when jerking off.thus, I am gay.

Note - I am one of those guys that drive some guys here nuts because I needed to first say I was bi, before I could emotionally process that I am gay. Oh well. Not e too , I believe bi exists. For me, it was how I processed being gay.

I am now in counseling and am actively working out how I am going to come out to friend, family, and coworkers.

By definition, being in the closet is paranoia. It is living in constant fear that others will discover your secret. In my opinion, it is a horrible way to live. I expect I will be out in the next few months. The only delay for me is dealing with my ex wife to be sure nothing changes with my child custody arrangement.

Accept ing yourself means consciously making the decision that the things you were taught about being gay are wrong. Societal pressures to be straight are wrong. You are a good and complete person as you are.

Oh, telling myself” I am gay” in the mirror was a great help.

And I am glad you came back.I understand why you left.it is ok.

Good luck to you. Send me a pm if you have any really specific questions on my situation.

 

[Rolyo85]

However, it's like your virginity - you don't really want that back. And trust me, you won't want to get back in the closet. Ever.

Also, if you can accept being gay without it bugging you, then you have NOTHING to fear from others. Let them think what they want.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Again, thanks for all of the input everyone. I can accept being gay, it doesn't bug me. But I think that my problem is what everyone else will say or think. Plus, the main reason that coming out is so scary to me is that it is final. You can't take it back once it's been said.

It's not the final step... it's the first step actually.