Age and grammar

[oakpope]

Battle of the old versus the young is as ancient as humanity. One would hope that we learn something along the way, alas memory is a fleeting thing.

 

[rareboy]

Classic English grammar is hurtling toward obscurity, replaced by the babel of txtspk, emoticons and other glyphs.

Half the time, I'm struggling to figure out what younger writers are trying to convey and have instituted a policy where I have to read every single thing, including emails, that is to be issued out of our office.

I hire a proofreader for all our reports and contract documents in order to catch as many grammatical and spelling errors.

All to no avail, I'm sure.

Within the century, if not within decades, I suspect that we will be using only hieroglyphs for most written communications and much of the nuance and subtlety of modern grammatical construction conventions will be thrown on the rubbish heap of English Lit 101, much like those of Chaucer, Beowulf and even Shakespeare are today...relics to be parsed and understood, but not emulated in everyday communication.

 

[Adrock-JD]

I fear Sloppyseconds has the answer.

 

[fetaby]

Within the century, if not within decades, I suspect that we will be using only hieroglyphs for most written communications

Might as well start studying now.

 

[rareboy]

By the way Hard-Up.

You needed a box to check for 'Most of the Above'

 

[MrRochesterNY]

I think it a mix of reasons. The failure of education, clarity and precision being sacrificed to the pressures of everyday life, the nature of the English language, these are three reasons that come to mind immediately.

What other language has so many homophones? Examples: sight, site, cite; their, there, they're; too, two, to. Couple that with the fact that uneducated people don't write much, and when they do, they fall back on phonetic spelling, and you have a written language that defies mastery.

As far as grammar rules go, there are few that are simple enough to understand and remember. Try to formulate a comprehensive rule for the use of the apostrophe. A growing trend is to throw in an apostrophe before any s, whether the s signifies possession or a plural or is just the final s in a simple word.

Even in our newspapers, "whom" is a dead item. Paragraphing and punctuation are disappearing in online writing in favor of a long, run-on string of words, either with no capitalization or in all capitals, that is left to the reader to plow through. Inconsiderate, but quick and effortless to pour out.

Woe is us! Or is that, Whoa is us?

 

[star-warrior]

Bring back Old English.

Beowulf Excerpt mp3 audio

 

[xRemyx]

I think the problem has to do with education during the primary and secondary levels. The curriculum has moved away from proper grammar, cursive writing and mental math and is being replace with computers (text-speak, programs that identify mistakes, i.e. Microsoft Word) and calculators.

It will probably remain as normal since nearly everything has some present on the internet, businesses, personal websites and so on.

 

[Kulindahr]

I don't think it's age at all, it's a matter of education. Those especially who have college degrees in areas which require actual thinking adhere close to correct grammar for the simple reason that sloppy grammar indicates sloppy thought; if one wants to express an idea clearly, one takes great care in choosing one's words.

 

[MrRochesterNY]

I don't think it's age at all, it's a matter of education. Those especially who have college degrees in areas which require actual thinking adhere close to correct grammar for the simple reason that sloppy grammar indicates sloppy thought; if one wants to express an idea clearly, one takes great care in choosing one's words.

Hear! Hear! (or as it is too often written on the Internet, "Here! Here!")

 

[Kulindahr]

Hear! Hear! (or as it is too often written on the Internet, "Here! Here!")

Or as the Firesign THeater has it...

"Hear, hear!"

"There, there!"

...

"Where? Where?"

 

[HunterM]

Wut? Say dat again?
This ain't nottin' new da internet is a big blck universe thankyou



Sorry, SloppySeconds just channeled through me for a few seconds there. Whoa! It was a doozy.

I don't think it's an age gap issue. As another poster stated, it's more an educational level issue. My nieces and nephews are in the age range of 12 to 17. They all are in IB curriculum. They are all A students. They know grammar and spelling when doing homework assignments. They know what a run-on sentence is. They know how to use punctuations...ok, maybe one too many exclaimation points when they get excited.

However, they use "txtspeak" to txt each other because it's a short and fun (and creative) way to communicate. Even in txtspeak, there are proper way to spell words. Wanted to be the cool uncle that I am, I updated my Facebook status with txtspeak. OMG! They flagged me for creating confusion by misspelling a couple of words...(ugh! the wrath of teenagers...scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Internet forums, such as this, had opened up/spotlighted more people who do not practice proper grammar. It's not a new problem. I believe the problem had always been there. We notice more today because we are interacting more virtually across various educational backgrounds, cultures, geographical locations than ever before...through each other's writing.

When learning a new language, most of us learn phonetically...because it's easier to imitate sounds we hear. Just as babies learn to speak first, way before they learn how to write. With the absence of internet forums and emails, we speak with one another...but we wouldn't know if people we speak to know/practice propper grammar.

Know what statistic evidence shows the generation gap? People who text with one hand vs. people who text with both hands on that tiny little cellphone keyboard. Younger generation text with both hands as most of them are avid video gamers. Older generation (35 and older) text with one finger

thankyou

 

[G-Lexington]

Two points to make.

Back when I was young, very few of my peers used proper grammar. Even in college, it wasn't unusual for us to throw around "aint's" and whatnot. But as we grew up, we tended to drop a lot of the non-grammatical stuff. Maybe it was just an age thing, or perhaps we decided we wanted to "present a better face" to the world at large. But whatever it is, I don't think this is unusual. I think a lot of kids use poor grammar as a form of slang, and many (but not all) of them outgrow it.

Secondly, it's the internet age. As such, you get to observe a lot more "youngsters" interact than you would've thirty years ago. You get to see their sloppily-typed messages to each other (and the world), whereas years ago, you could only experience it if you hung out in schoolyards or something.

Lex

 

[HunterM]

I dunno aboot u but my grammer seemz to get gooder with age.

lolz ur da man!!!!!

 

[seven2go]

So corporations, other businesses and the courts will evolve to communicating via text speak?...... .......

(I just noticed the old emoticons are back....... ) .......

 

[bankside]

I begin by assuming that the level of language skill is constant over time. Prior to the internet, one had to be published in order to be read by others. Certain standards were in place.

Now, people who couldn't dream of being published before can write voluminously. It doesn't reduce the number of skilled communicators, it just empowers a whole flotilla of shitty ones alongside them.

So, we have a higher chaff-to-wheat ratio. Not surprisingly our attention spans have fallen alongside the proliferation of publishing methods; readers are focussed on weeding out the good from the bad ever more intently.

What gives me optimism is the degree to which skilled communicators can interact with clumsy ones. In any other endeavour, stronger skills win out. I expect the same effect from the fluidity brought about by the net; the stronger communicators will gain a certain advantage in conversation, others will learn from that, and the general quality of English (and other languages) will go up.

 

[MrRochesterNY]

HunterM, G-Lexington, and Bankside all make good points. On the Internet we are being exposed to a wider spectrum of educational, cultural, and ethnic backgrounds, all using the written word as the means of communication, a medium not everyone is at home in.

I notice that there is one JUB poster who can't write more than two sentences without saying either "fucking" or "shit." While those kinds of expressions can be shrugged in oral communication, they strike a discordant note here and (to my mind) reflect badly on the writer.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

I fear Sloppyseconds has the answer.

ya need a sumthang ta answer

ho ho ho

# da UN rise ans go say Wot we doin here? #
@ ya givin folk job @
# wot dat? #
@ emtpy ya trash everyday @
# ooh here anoda 10000 pages #
@ ooh easy day then ans wot it about? @
# we get popcorn dude hand out popcorn durin da speechins ors buy entrance #

@ then a anime >
# >

now porn say
@ ARRRRH @
# ooh #
* close mouth now *
@ GUlp @
end of porn say

unbutta porn use in makin this mini

thankyou

if you gons read this post 1000 million folk nnot read this post

there ya go

 

[HunterM]

I notice that there is one JUB poster who can't write more than two sentences without saying either "fucking" or "shit." While those kinds of expressions can be shrugged in oral communication, they strike a discordant note here and (to my mind) reflect badly on the writer.

Who dat fucking poster can't rite shit?

 

[youfiad]

There are many from all generations who do not observe grammar rules, whether it is out of ignorance or lack of concern.

But languages evolve. And as long as people are able to communicate their thoughts to each other with sufficient clarity, grammar and spelling will become less important.

That's true to an extent. But without a firm understanding of grammar, your language can be mediocre, at best. Two people may not be able to clearly communicate what they are saying to each other and ambiguities will form unless there is a common set of rules to follow.