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Alternate view of Columbus Day

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Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

Here, here.

This is certainly more constructive as a way to get past the legacy we're all here discussing than a sentiment of "well, get with the program" and talking about Vikings or Celts. The legacy of the colonization of the Americas is still highly visible and tangible today, it's not something in the archaic past with no repercussions in the present.

In much of the country it isn't evident, so people can be happily ignorant.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

In much of the country it isn't evident, so people can be happily ignorant.

Very much so--- and it's because of another legacy of colonization, reservations.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

Very much so--- and it's because of another legacy of colonization, reservations.

Some of which are doing quite nicely. One here in Oregon is famous for its hot springs, and the resort around them; others now have casinos -- the closest one to me does well enough from its casino that all tribal members have health care as good as any state employee, and everyone has good housing as well.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

Some of which are doing quite nicely. One here in Oregon is famous for its hot springs, and the resort around them; others now have casinos -- the closest one to me does well enough from its casino that all tribal members have health care as good as any state employee, and everyone has good housing as well.

That's true, it's been a boon for some tribes, mostly small ones. But there is definitely a general misconception in the public that all tribes "have casinos now" and are rich.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

Why is this man remembered as a hero, and why does he have his own holiday?

I think that if you examine any human you'll find that none are "heroes".

I haven't given much thought to Columbus in my life, so I don't really know much about him. This thread has been very educational. Thanks for making it.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

Having lived in Alaska and New Mexico, I have worked alongside Native Americans in greater numbers and proximity than most people I know elsewhere. Sadly, their heavy reliance on casinos works against their interests here quite often, as their own members squander much in gambling and without the expendable income to afford it. They also encourage both drinking and smoking, both of which have devastating effects.

Many tribes do not want casinos for *exactly* this reason. I think many Americans would be surprised to see the list of tribes that has refused to do anything higher than the level of bingo hall gaming precisely because of what you talked about above, regardless of the financial tradeoff. Additionally, not all tribes are capable or situated in a place where "well, go open a casino" makes any sense, nor are all casinos wildly successful, nor are all tribes small enough to end poverty entrenchment from the revenue of a casino.

Here's the thing though, a lot of tribes turned to gaming in the first place because it is so difficult for reservation dwellers to start up enterprise due to the legal complexities of tribal nationhood. As one example, all (remaining) tribal land is considered to be held in trust by the Federal Government-- in effect, tribes own it but are unable to to use it as collateral, or borrow against it for the purposes of business capital loans or anything else. And as I think we all know Indians themselves are not wealthy people, they're in fact the poorest demographic in the United States. Indians largely didn't get into casino gaming "instead of more honest and less unsavory enterprises", but rather because it's so difficult for them to get into any other type of business. Also, nearly all of the first Indian casinos got their investments to begin from Asian overseas lenders-- American banks and capital investors routinely panned reservation tribal ideas for resorts or casinos or businesses. (I'm sure more than one of those lenders must have kicked themselves afterwards.) But that was part of a much longer history of banks being unwilling to lend to tribal entities for starting up businesses.

Despite the "general reputation" that Indians have their own courts (and the accompanying suspicion that they're inherently unfair or corrupt against non-Indians) the typical American is pretty outraged if you explain to them the complex process of what happens if a non-Indian wanders onto a reservation and rapes you or commits some other felony, where due to the legal setup the reservation dweller has no direct power to insist upon a prosecution, and a large number of reservation felonies go unprosecuted.

This is a *bit* of a tangent but it is relevant insofar as, NA's are not simply an ethnicity like any other. They are also (at least with regard to reservation dwellers and tribal members) of a different legal and political category than any other American citizen, which in a few small ways is beneficial, and in a number of large ways is detrimental. With every other ethnicity, you really only have two legal categories: American citizen or not. The rest of what affects them is social and largely not procedurally or legislatively different. For Indians, your citizenship/tribal membership status will effect everything from how you can borrow money to how (un)equally you are protected against crimes, to even child adoption. There isn't a Bureau of White Affairs white people have to go deal with to do home improvements or refinance their house. There is a Bureau of Indian Affairs.

The colorblind approach is admirable in theory but it also does completely miss a lot of specific complexity at work insofar as how certain things affect certain groups differently, and how history has shaped that difference.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

........and The Book of Mormon unequivocally states that Jared and his brother, at the time of the Tower of Babel, fled across the ocean via unique barges and established an ancient civilization in the Americas. So I guess "Columbus Day" must be renamed "Jared and His Brother Day." Just one of the many million reasons to be grateful Mitt failed to win the Whitehouse. Go figure :)
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

I agree on Columbus, the Vikings had already landed in North America many years prior.
 
Re: Why does Columbus have a holiday named after him? He wasn't a hero.

........and The Book of Mormon unequivocally states that Jared and his brother, at the time of the Tower of Babel, fled across the ocean via unique barges and established an ancient civilization in the Americas. So I guess "Columbus Day" must be renamed "Jared and His Brother Day." Just one of the many million reasons to be grateful Mitt failed to win the Whitehouse. Go figure :)

LOL

Those "unique barges" were submarines!
 
Found: Columbus' flagship Santa Maria???

500-year-old mystery: Wreck off Haiti may be Columbus' flagship Santa Maria

(CNN) -- Is a sunken shipwreck off Haiti the long lost remains of the Santa Maria, Christopher Columbus' flagship from his first voyage to the Americas?

The underwater explorer Barry Clifford, who led a team that found and investigated the wreck, says he's confident it is.

If his claim is confirmed, it would go down as one of the most significant underwater archaeological discoveries in history.

Clifford told CNN late Monday that he found the ship in the exact area where Columbus says the Santa Maria ran aground more than 500 years ago. The wreck is stuck on a reef off Haiti's northern coast, 10 to 15 feet beneath the water's surface.

The "smoking gun" that led Clifford to believe the ship is the Santa Maria is a cannon of 15th century design that was found at the site, he said.

"It is the Mount Everest of shipwrecks for me," the 68-year-old Clifford said. "This ship changed the course of human history.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/13/world/americas/christopher-columbus-santa-maria/
 
Re: Found: Columbus' flagship Santa Maria???

how a it change a human ape hisotry?
_ooooooooohnooooooo_
keep straight face
_okay_

thankyou
 
Re: Found: Columbus' flagship Santa Maria???

That's pretty awesome! I'd forgotten they still used those long skinny cannon at that time. I wonder when they stopped using them? The change would have come when corned gunpowder was developed; it burned faster and so a shorter barrel was more effective.
 
Re: Found: Columbus' flagship Santa Maria???

That reminds me. My tiny hometown was port of call for about a month when a reproduction of the Nina was having engine troubles. I think it was in the 90's.

The replica had been built as part of the American Bicentennial celebration for 1976.

When touring the boat, one had to marvel that men crossed the Atlantic in such a small craft.


Albuquerque?
 
Re: Found: Columbus' flagship Santa Maria???

Are they still saying Columbus discovered America (first)?
 
Re: Found: Columbus' flagship Santa Maria???

Evidence?

Touchy . . .

I didn't ask for a peek into your freezer, or about all that freshly turned soil on your 'conservation trail'. I just asked if you'd ever heard of 'shanghaied chicken' or 'long pork'.

Never mind.
 
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