Am I a Classical Liberal?

[Devois]

You sound like someone who was raised to believe in the ultimately libertine philosophy for which America (especially) is infamous, but you've come to make concessions, proposing sacrifices of liberties that only the rich and power have for more basic liberties outside the grasp of others.

 

[Kulindahr]

We have reduced personal income tax for a big increase in personal liberty, for one thing. Conservatives on the Supreme Court preserved freedom of speech against attacks by liberals. In some areas they have been able to require IDs to prevent democrat voter fraud.

Requiring IDs is an authoritarian move.

And while SCOTUS ruled in favor of free speech for citizens, they also extended free speech to inanimate objects, thus authorizing the theft of speech from some people by (generally) extremely wealthy people.

 

[Kulindahr]

E

Nope to you. I disagree with your notion that economic freedom does not count. It is the most important. Without it the rest will go as well.

The GOP wants economic freedom for the wealthy and none for the majority.

This is why I don't refer to that party by its official name -- they're no longer republicans.

 

[Kulindahr]

Not to mention the fact that Americans pretty consistently give less per capita and per dollar than other first worlders who generally live in countries with higher tax rates.

Back before Reagan, there was a joke that was accurate:

Q: What's the difference between a generous Republican and a generous Democrat?
A: The Republican uses his own money.


But Republicans have become much less generous since then; personal giving by Republican politicians isn't very much different than that of Democrat politicians these days. Also since that time, personal giving by Americans has dropped overall.

And the reason isn't hard to guess at: as the middle class has steadily crumbled, people don't have as much to give. That's the result of GOP policies that serve to move wealth up the ladder.

 

[Benvolio]

Requiring IDs is an authoritarian move.

And while SCOTUS ruled in favor of free speech for citizens, they also extended free speech to inanimate objects, thus authorizing the theft of speech from some people by (generally) extremely wealthy people.

Both are necessary to preserve our democracy.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Both are necessary to preserve our democracy.

How exactly does allowing wealthy people to inflate their weight in the democratic process via financial donation "preserve democracy"?

 

[Benvolio]

How exactly does allowing wealthy people to inflate their weight in the democratic process via financial donation "preserve democracy"?

The democrat medis are so consistently biased and against free enterprise that they will and do spend big money pushing us toward a one party socialist state. People favoring democracy and free enterprise must be allowed to counterbalence the expenditures by the democrats and the democrat media.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The democrat medis are so consistently biased and against free enterprise that they will and do spend big money pushing us toward a one party socialist state. People favoring democracy and free enterprise must be allowed to counterbalence the expenditures by the democrats and the democrat media.

So in an era where corporations make more money, bigger profits, pay lower wages and have come out of about a 3 decade period of deregulation, they have to be allowed to funnel billions into skewing the democratic process to combat all the encroachment on their power and entitlement?

Or are they just grabbing more power?

 

[Benvolio]

So in an era where corporations make more money, bigger profits, pay lower wages and have come out of about a 3 decade period of deregulation, they have to be allowed to funnel billions into skewing the democratic process to combat all the encroachment on their power and entitlement?

Or are they just grabbing more power?

Corprations have so much power they have to leave to escape the highest tax rates in the industrial world. You will be happy to know that today Pfizer announced it will be an Irish corporatiin from now on. Ireland has much lower rates. Knowing how much you hate corporations this should be a cause for celebrations by you. It id only thr latest of 50 or so to escape.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Corprations have so much power they have to leave to escape the highest tax rates in the industrial world.

Yes, corporations are expected to pay back into a system they are happy to profit off by selling it $129.99 Nikes they made in a sweatshop in China for $4 a pair with labor.

The inhumanity.

P.S. Let's return to the point. Name a personal liberty expanded by Republicans in the last 20 years. Name one even seriously fought for by the GOP.

Restricting other people's voting, sexual habits, reproductive choices, and redistributing wealth to the wealthy do not qualify as expanding personal liberties.

 

[thewiz]

Pfizer’s reported earnings have been dented by the need to earmark money for future US taxes on its offshore profits, which has accounted for nearly two-thirds of its tax charge over the past four years. Excluding these “deferred” taxes, its tax bills in the US have been relatively low because it has reported nearly $14 billion of losses in the US over the past four years. Its US tax bill totaled a little more than $1 billion over that period.

Moving to Ireland will mean that Pfizer’s reported tax rate, which was nearly 26 per cent last year, is likely to become closer to its cash tax rate of 17 per cent. But the overall rate will depend on Allergan’s rate and the complexity of both companies’ tax affairs mean that analysts are largely dependent on the company for guidance.

At the same time, Pfizer spent handsomely when the Affordable Care Act was passed -- to prevent negotiating on the prices of medication with drug companies. Medicare is not able to buy in bulk, even though this has drastically reduced costs for the VA and in most other countries around the world (Canada for example). Pfizer receives one of the highest levels of funding from National Institute of Health for "Research and Development" with no repayment required. Now it can take your tax dollars, co-mingle them off-shore, and sell their product in the US without any competition since most of their drugs receive patent protection from the US and Medicare has to pay the asking price.

Such ethics! Another Republican example.

 

[Kulindahr]

Both are necessary to preserve our democracy.

You think having an authoritarian plutocracy is necessary to "preserve democracy".

Um . . . . just wow.

 

[Kulindahr]

The democrat medis are so consistently biased and against free enterprise that they will and do spend big money pushing us toward a one party socialist state. People favoring democracy and free enterprise must be allowed to counterbalence the expenditures by the democrats and the democrat media.

Corporatism, which is what the GOP advocates, is antithetical to a free market.

 

[Benvolio]

Yes, corporations are expected to pay back into a system they are happy to profit off by selling it $129.99 Nikes they made in a sweatshop in China for $4 a pair with labor.

The inhumanity.

P.S. Let's return to the point. Name a personal liberty expanded by Republicans in the last 20 years. Name one even seriously fought for by the GOP.

Restricting other people's voting, sexual habits, reproductive choices, and redistributing wealth to the wealthy do not qualify as expanding personal liberties.

Republicans always fight for the rights of individuals to start and run businesses, hiring the best people for the jobs regardless of race creed etc, and without unreasonable dictation by the government.
They have fought for tge rights of babies to be born rather than being killed by democrats.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, corporations are expected to pay back into a system they are happy to profit off by selling it $129.99 Nikes they made in a sweatshop in China for $4 a pair with labor.

The inhumanity.

P.S. Let's return to the point. Name a personal liberty expanded by Republicans in the last 20 years. Name one even seriously fought for by the GOP.

Restricting other people's voting, sexual habits, reproductive choices, and redistributing wealth to the wealthy do not qualify as expanding personal liberties.

As of last December, the figure for the cost to Nike to make a $129 pair of shoes was about $30, of which $12 was labor, the rest being materials, plant, taxes, advertising, etc. Nike makes a profit of $4.50 to $5.00 per pair, depending on the show, when they sell to a retailer. The retailer then marks it up to cover its costs and get a much larger profit per pair than Nike does.

That's why Nike loves outlet stores: they can sell a pair at 15% or more less than regular retailers and make eight to ten times the profit per pair.

 

[Benvolio]

There are plenty of other and cheaper brands. Young people like Nike beacause of their extreme design and coloration. We used to make shoes in the US but the unions and democrats won the battles against the the manufacturors. If the shoes were manufactured here the retail cost would be prohibitive.

 

[jbrown329]

Fuck Pfizer. For that fucking move, the CEO, CFO, Attys and major shareholders should be fined out of existence. Then the company seized, broken up and sold. The EXACT same should happen to EACH and EVERY corp that does the same. Nail one, the rest will not do it. Their move is NOT to save money. Their move IS to guarantee that everyone gets MASSIVE dividends. That's the complete truth.

 

[Kulindahr]

Fuck Pfizer. For that fucking move, the CEO, CFO, Attys and major shareholders should be fined out of existence. Then the company seized, broken up and sold. The EXACT same should happen to EACH and EVERY corp that does the same. Nail one, the rest will not do it. Their move is NOT to save money. Their move IS to guarantee that everyone gets MASSIVE dividends. That's the complete truth.

To be fair, courts have ruled that companies have to provide a maximum return to investors. Ultimately that will kill American companies, because it makes them go deeper into debt when they're carrying debt and hobbles economic flexibility.

 

[opinterph]

To be fair, courts have ruled that companies have to provide a maximum return to investors.

Example?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Republicans always fight for the rights of individuals to start and run businesses

Alright, so we are just establishing clarity here. You do not dispute, and are not bothering to pretend, the GOP stands for, fights for, or has made any meritorious effort in the last 20 years for any personal liberties. It has exerted itself for corporate freedoms.

Which have utterly nothing to do with a good or functioning or healthy democracy, least of all when it is your sole and only perogative to the exclusion of personal rights or personal liberties.