America may never recover from recession

[evanrick]

America may NEVER recover from this recession

Lets remember a few things:

The economy first started going downhill around 2000 with the dot com bust.

Then we had 9-11 and George Bush.

Then the housing crisis sparked financial meltdown, the bailouts came and unemployment skyrocketed.

The economy is barely recovering, if at all, and this recession will likely hinder America for years if not decades.

This has essentially been a lost generation, since income has stagnated, and the rich-poor divide is wider than ever.

If this recession ends, what will be left of America is two separate worlds.

One part will be prosperous and the other part will be left to globalization.

There will be a huge number of poor and a few rich people, there is already substantial evidence pointing to this outcome, and in some areas, it has already arrived.

America will transform into a place completely unrecognizable, much worse off compared to today's standards.

I do not see congress or the President being able do to anything about this. There is only so much government can do to blunt the force of globalization for so long.

Corporate America and the wealthy elite have effectively taken over this country, what the future holds for millions is bleak indeed.

Call me pessimistic, but what could possibly change the trajectory of history at this point?

Barack Obama? Revolution? Another Civil War?

One thing is for certain, this problem will not fix itself, its time to take history into our own hands.

Let us not confuse optimism for self-deception, or history will only repeat itself.

 

[purina]

What social welfare?

 

[CumAlong]

Another prophecy of doom thread...

shit happens

shit sucks

shit rebounds as it always has

deal with it.

America isn't going anywhere, and I can still think of over a billion people that aspire to one day be as fortunate and graced with good luck to be a poor bastard on the streets of America.

Besides, America's debt isn't even close to the worst in the world...

Out of the world's 75 largest economies, the United States has the 20th largest as debt-to-GDP ratio, standing at 94.3%, with a gross external debt of $13.454 trillion and an annual GDP $14.26 trillion. In fact, out of the largest 75 economies, this number is just above the worldwide average of 90.8% Western-European and North American countries dominate the upper end of the spectrum, with Switzerland (422%) and the United Kingdom (408%) at the #2 and #3 spots, respectively, and Ireland representing the most drastic debt-to-GDP ratio. According to the most recent World Bank data, Ireland's number stands at a staggering 1,267%.

source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/33506526


We may have a large debt in numbers, but we also have far more population than most European and developed countries do. A fact many people seem to like to ignore to blow things out of proportion.

 

[c750dt]

Considering the dollar is a fiat currency and totally backed by faith these days, it will never regain value until we're able to stop moping and crying about it's value. Eliminating minimum wage and letting that high school kid working the fryer at McDonalds work harder for his money might help him to grow up with higher standards and better spending habbits. However, there's several other factors like the job market and such.

Next, hoarding money is a double edge sword. Usually in economic hardship, the dollar does deflate some but it's not happening. How is it people are supposedly so hard to spend their cash now and yet, individual dollars are still becoming worth less by the day? This is all going against the law of diminished returns and in huge part, because of the governments idea that it's somehow good to run those printing presses and keep those dollar bills printing.

Next up, we'll have to tough this recession out but have you noticed as an individual, you tend to do exactly as bad as you say you are? Psychology plays a huge factor. We outta spend less time moping and begging the guys in political offices to do everything for us. Why do we all expect Obama to magically bail us out? His main job is to keep other countries at bay; let's focus on our local politicians a little more. For each individual economy within the US, that's more relevant. It also doesn't help to research, find ideas, debate and even write your politicians whether it be to support him, scorn him or simply to ask how he's helping us.

Times suck right now. However, how many of us here are actually doing a decent duty to fix that? But alas, even if you can't or think you can't do a thing, you could be worse off. Thanks to infrastructure and established programs as well as even the quality of material items and the ease of access to shelter if you look (some towns might stink for that, some might require you work a lot and that shelter you get in lieu of decent pay) is acceptable so we'll never possibly be as bad off as those who lived through the recession.

 

[resonance]

A recession by economists is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We are not technically still in recession.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I guess when exactly this downfall started depends on which side of the tracks you grew up on .

I refer to all the people crying about this "unforseen" economic turmoil as "new poor." They're the ones shocked when, after spending hundreds on clothes and dates and vacations, they don't have money for their phone bill or child support payments. Then all of a sudden it's the republicans' fault for screwing up their finances.

 

[evanrick]

Then all of a sudden it's the republicans' fault for screwing up their finances.

Well millions have been laid off, George Bush left office with a huge deficit, exploding unemployment, a collapsing job and housing market, and you really believe their policies have not damaged the economic future of thousands of people?

Must be nice living on the moon.

 

[gaypiper]

This is an empire. All empires fail. No exceptions.

 

[LilBit]

In post-WWI Germany, people were using Deutschmarks as fuel for their stoves. It looked like they were terminally fucked. Now Germany is the strongest economy in Europe.

It may take some time for America to recover, but no recession lasts forever. Unless you're Haiti.

 

[BostonPirate]

The recession was triggered by a market correction in the housing and financial sectors, and compounded by huge war spending and irrational tax reductions. SO that market correction element of the recession issue is permanent. until america generates new job sectors or new revenue oportunities that do not rely on job growth, nothing is going to change.

as was noted above, the recession is over, but a flatline economy is what we are now dealing with.

The recession was not permanent but the unemployment rate may be, so increasing income taxes will not fix the situation completely. that means that the gov't needs to find new sectors of the economy to tax that are not job related.

It is posible to cut back spending and increase taxes, which would add money into the economy via available credit. Until the gov't stops sucking up all the credit with deficit borrowing, I would say that we are going to risk a double dip recession.

but a flatline, which is NOT a recession, shows the adjustments the Dems are making are working. As old jobs phase out in the sectors that the adjustment was made in, new jobs are entering in, and that is EXACTLY what is needed for LONG TERM unemployment reduction.

I think four to ten years of a relatively flatlined economy with no recession or expansion is what is likely to happen at this point.

 

[CowboyBob]

Most of you don't remember this or were even born then, but this is pretty much the same doomsday talk that was going around in 1974-1975. We were mired in a deep recession, gas shortages, inflation, unemployment. It was all over the news how private cars were going to be too expensive to own. Gas shot up from 24¢ a gallon to an unbelievable 50¢ a gallon and there was panic and fights in some stations.

America was in a bad mood because President Nixon just resigned in disgrace, there was uncertainty if we would ever recover. There was talk about how some people would be permanently unemployed.

That was a long time ago and we recovered and the economy boomed again. It's just another cycle and we'll recover from this one too.

 

[CumAlong]

Most of you don't remember this or were even born then, but this is pretty much the same doomsday talk that was going around in 1974-1975. We were mired in a deep recession, gas shortages, inflation, unemployment. It was all over the news how private cars were going to be too expensive to own. Gas shot up from 24¢ a gallon to an unbelievable 50¢ a gallon and there was panic and fights in some stations.

America was in a bad mood because President Nixon just resigned in disgrace, there was uncertainty if we would ever recover. There was talk about how some people would be permanently unemployed.

That was a long time ago and we recovered and the economy boomed again. It's just another cycle and we'll recover from this one too.

I find it rather comical how these things keep happening. Everyone panics without even trying to make the situation right.

And nothing is more laughable than all the 'America doomsdayers' that are intent on prophesizing the end of America as the world's leading super power.

 

[cityboy-stl]

We will never recover until people have jobs.

People will never have jobs as long as we continue to ship jobs out of country.

How many Americans would have jobs today if their job had not been sent overseas?

How many American business would still be in business if their customers jobs had not been sent overseas?

As long as this outsourcing outrage it permitted to continue is as long as the recession will continue.

 

[Nomenclature]

Well millions have been laid off, George Bush left office with a huge deficit, exploding unemployment, a collapsing job and housing market, and you really believe their policies have not damaged the economic future of thousands of people?

Not to mention:

Reagan insider: GOP destroyed economy

Yes, that is exactly what David Stockman, President Ronald Reagan's director of the Office of Management and Budget, wrote in a recent New York Times op-ed piece, 'Four Deformations of the Apocalypse.'

http://digg.com/political_opinion/Reagan_insider_GOP_destroyed_economy

We will never recover until people have jobs.

People will never have jobs as long as we continue to ship jobs out of country.

How many Americans would have jobs today if their job had not been sent overseas?

How many American business would still be in business if their customers jobs had not been sent overseas?

As long as this outsourcing outrage it permitted to continue is as long as the recession will continue.

Why pay an American worker 12-20 dollars an hour when you can pay someone in Sri Lanka half-a-penny an hour to do the same thing? Not to mention that the Republicans set it up so that businesses get massive tax breaks for shipping out jobs, as well.


The only way to fix that would be to reverse that, so that they get tax breaks for keeping jobs in the US.

 

[resonance]

Well millions have been laid off, George Bush left office with a huge deficit, exploding unemployment, a collapsing job and housing market, and you really believe their policies have not damaged the economic future of thousands of people?

The Dems controlled Congress during the final half of Bush years. Educate yourselves. The president has no legislative power!

As a matter of fact, that liberals ruined the economy has a far more consistent track record considering their control over Congress from Bush 2nd term to the present. Look! No they can't!

 

[Hot White Trash]

Dumbest thread EVA!

 

[cityboy-stl]

Why pay an American worker 12-20 dollars an hour when you can pay someone in Sri Lanka half-a-penny an hour to do the same thing? Not to mention that the Republicans set it up so that businesses get massive tax breaks for shipping out jobs, as well. The only way to fix that would be to reverse that, so that they get tax breaks for keeping jobs in the US.

That's partly right. Tax breaks need to be contingent upon not only keeping jobs in the U.S. but bringing them back as well. But that incentive is not enough. You not only need to incent them not to outsource, you need to punish them when they do outsource. Every single dollar that goes for foreign outsourced labor should be payroll taxed at the full rate without limitation. Tax them for the lost FICA and Medicare plus a surtax to supplement unemployment insurance at the very least. Pay less taxes; Hire American workers. Pay substantially more taxes; outsource.

 

[Daximus]

I've seen the dollar come back against the euro by about 20 (US) some cents now in the last 6 months. Back in Dec '09 the euro to dollar ratio was 1:1.49 or worse. Today the euro to dollar ratio is 1:1.28. So unless the whole world is having a financial meltdown, I'd say the US is well on its way to recovery. Besides, why think negatively. It's that kinda thinking that is partially to blame for todays situation.

 

[evanrick]

The Dems controlled Congress during the final half of Bush years. Educate yourselves. The president has no legislative power!

WRONG. Democrats took control of THE HOUSE in 2007, and the senate was split. Bush took office in 2001, and just to remind you, Bush was in office for 8 years, not 4.

And the President CAN veto bills, I would say that is the most potent form of legislative power there is.

Get your facts straight before you start shifting blame.

Im sorry this thread has descended into a screaming match, I was looking for arguments, not finger pointing.

 

[resonance]

I've seen the dollar come back against the euro by about 20 (US) some cents now in the last 6 months. Back in Dec '09 the euro to dollar ratio was 1:1.49 or worse. Today the euro to dollar ratio is 1:1.28.

That has more to do with the financial meltdown in Europe than any American recovery. To reflect, the dollar hit a 15 year low against the yen.

Also a weaker dollar encourages American exports.

WRONG. Democrats took control of THE HOUSE in 2007, and the senate was split. Bush took office in 2001, and just to remind you, Bush was in office for 8 years, not 4.

The years the Dems were in control were the years the economy began slipping. The recession began in the second half of Bush's term and those 2 years may be argued to be most crucial.

Since Congress was split the other 2 years one could argue that it was in part a bipartisan buildup to the economic catastrophe.

And the President CAN veto bills, I would say that is the most potent form of legislative power there is.

Who cares? That is a bare minimal power hardly qualifiable as a legislative by most individuals and simply a random irrelevant point of contention you threw into your diatribe.

Tell me: how did Bush's legislative power impact the economy? What pivotal bill did he veto?

Get your facts straight before you start shifting blame.

Shifting? To believe that the Democrats are in no part responsible for the lackluster economy is delusional.

Also, no one can actually ever prove HOW Bush ruined the economy. The war in Iraq and Republican tax breaks are only what angry uneducated liberals like to randomly toss out.

I would argue that the legitimate cause of the market bubble and subsequent recession is due to inaction on the part of Congress and improper monetary policy by the Fed.