America... what do you think?

[Chalchalero]

^^^ true that! Barack the vote. Obama !!!! Let's make history.

Barack the vote - I like that!

 

[Chalchalero]

Fair enough Chalchalero..Point taken.

I haven't given up on the Democrats either...Not yet..

This november, I will most likely vote the straight Democratic ticket,as I have done for years..

However, afterwards I going to be a registered Independent .

At least you can get the hell out of here when the house to house fighting starts..

You have a dark vision for the future. I hope it does not come to that...

I believe that, like you, I will also register as an Independent after November if I am disappointed again. I am not even certain that I wish to live in this country any more if John McCain wins, because that will indicate to me that America is filled with a great many people that I just really do not like and do not wish to be associated with anymore.

I don't know. All in its good time, I suppose.

 

[Chalchalero]

I hope the Democrats will not lose faith. Looking at the big picture in the most objective way, Obama really is the desired choice for a President now that Hillary is out of the picture.

Obama, from the international standpoint (almost the entire rest-of-the-world prays he'll be the President-elect), and Obama, from the national standpoint (four more years of George Bush policies? I'd rather be barbecued.)

Chalchalero, if I might pass along a compliment: your last post showed incredible insight and advanced levels of objective thinking. I especially respect that you're willing to admit truths with which you don't necessarily agree. Kudos to you.

I have frequently stated in this very forum that simply because we do not like something does not make it any less true. I try to live up to my own words if and whenever possible.

And you never have to ask to give me a compliment. They are always welcome...

 

[TX-Beau]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

The US, a former colony of the UK, inherited much of its zeitgeist from its mother country--its legal system, its customs to some extent, its language, and even a lot of its food.

Iran is a horse of a different color!

Unclean, I've gleaned the idea that countries mature just like human beings do. If this analogy is correct, the United States could be compared to an adolescent--loud, brash, too prone to excess--while the UK could be compared to the Mother that it really is.

Taking this analogy further, just look how much advancement most Northern European countries have achieved over the last century...

It's food for thought, anyway.

You don’t think that’s an anthropomorphized idealized paradigm? Old people aren’t always wise, young people aren’t always brash. Societies evolve certainly, but maybe the direction and characteristics of how, have more to do with precedent and resources. For example, poor countries produce workers – with little time for philosophy, rich and powerful countries produce arrogant classes of the entitled.

Some places are so old they should, according to your proposition have figured things out by now, and yet they too go through cycles of expansion/recession, liberalism/xenophobia.

 

[TX-Beau]

You are quite right. My theory is oversimplified for the sake of clarity.

The truth is of course too complex to detail here. Suffice it to say that civilization has a birth, a period of richness, a period of liberalism, and a period of decline as it ages, subject to possible rebirth.

If you will take a walk of history, you'll see this pattern again and again: Ancient Rome; ancient Greece, ancient Babylonia, even the American Indian culture. (It is not widely known, for example, that the Navajo Nation was a rather sophisticated nation for its time--for example, it practiced group therapy long before psychoanalysis even had a name in Western culture). Moreover, civilizations rise and fall even within a single nation. (Does anybody remember Weimar Germany? Gay rights were virtually unknown in Western Civilization before that period, but Weimar Germany Berlin had gay bars, bisexual bars, etc., on every corner until the "fall"; Weimar Germany was the real birthplace of gay rights.) Let's not forget, too, the British Empire, which was bowdlerized by World War 2. Civilizations can fall but are subject to renewal and rebirth.

In the case of the United States, I contend that its relative youth is responsible for some of its issues. This is, admittedly, purely subjective, but it does seem to follow the general pattern of birth, wealth, liberalism--and eventual decline.

Perhaps, it’s an un-testable proposition isn’t it. Though I’d argue that as nations decline they tend to become less tolerant not more so. Look at Byzantine Rome, the Late Victorians, Manchu China, etc. Of course that’s also a subjective value judgment.

I think that U.S. culture (whatever that means) is evolving into itself – slowly, but that’s more a function of people becoming farther and farther removed from their cultural origins. I don’t think you could say that a majority of Americans are English in Origin anymore, that’s just a fairly meaningless point of trivia, as hardly anyone knows what being either English or anything else would imply anyway. Certainly the U.S. no longer aspires to be like Europe. Perhaps that’s the path of all former colonies.

I think American Xenophobia has a lot to do with the fact that Europe is an ocean away. If we were a small to mid size country surrounded by a dozen other countries I suspect we’d be far less insular. What have we got, Mexico beyond the river, and Canada behind its righteousness (Big Kiss to both , and Canada you know you can get insufferably smug)

I think our arrogance has a direct correlation to wealth and the perception of power. How modest were the British in the 19th century or the Italians under Rome? A few more rude shocks from reality will unfortunately be required to fix that.

Even so, there are plenty of people here who are fun and worthwhile, who aren’t offensive little jingoistic warmongers.

At the end of the day I suppose, it’s home, good points and bad. I love my home so I’m thankful for the good and try to fix the bad. Just like people anywhere I suspect.