Americans First – Citizenism as a Moral Principle to Regulate Immigration

[opinterph]

Notice the requirement that the company "validate" command of English. Where? In a lawsuit for one thing. We were talking about "poor" English, not zero English, nor "command of" English, so it is not black and white. If the employer turns down an immigrant because of "poor" English he runs the risk that it will be considered discrimination because the English was "good enough".

Apparently you do not understand what is meant by the term, “validation.”

Principles for the Validation and Use of Personnel Selection Procedures​

A variety of established products, techniques, and services are available to help employers accurately test language skills and avoid undue claims of discrimination, such as Versant. In any event, the employer should only test for language proficiency if that skill is validated as a selection criterion to the job for which the employer is recruiting applicants. (The validation can be performed on a job specific basis or it can be understood through common practice.)

Many companies and governmental entities have affirmative action programs which would make it legal to discriminate in favor of an alien against an American.

Apparently you do not understand employment law.

Anyone eligible to work in the US is afforded equal protection, regardless of his or her citizenship status. In fact, it is illegal for employers to ask applicants if they are US citizens.

 

[Benvolio]

As you can imagine, that whole tangled web is repulsive to me. Why allow them in, if we have force people to hire them? What possible justification can there be for not allowing a preference for Americans. The government is supposed to help its people.

 

[Rolyo85]

Fresh blood. Gotta weed the radical Christianist troglodytes out of existence ^_^

 

[xbuzzerx]

As you can imagine, that whole tangled web is repulsive to me. Why allow them in, if we have force people to hire them? What possible justification can there be for not allowing a preference for Americans. The government is supposed to help its people.

Now people are being "forced" to hire immigrant workers? I thought you wanted to ban them because they're too over-desirable to employers and drive the wages down.

 

[Rolyo85]

The story keeps changing, right?

 

[Kulindahr]

The government is supposed to help its people.

So have you written to your Congresscritters to tell them to extend unemployment benefits, raise the food stamp maximum, and increase the individual exemption on federal income tax? Those are all the government helping people.

 

[xbuzzerx]

So have you written to your Congresscritters to tell them to extend unemployment benefits, raise the food stamp maximum, and increase the individual exemption on federal income tax? Those are all the government helping people.

"Naturally", we are forgetting the condition central to Ben's whole worldview, that yes, it should benefit whites and Americans first, but it should always benefit corporations more, because they are the entities from which all blessings flow.

 

[opinterph]

Elephant in the Room

In September Right Wing Watch noted that White Nationalists at VDARE are upset that Steve Sailer is no longer getting credit for his “whites only” strategy.

White Nationalist Group Upset It's Not Getting Credit for Inventing GOP 'Whites-Only' Strategy​

The Sailer Strategy Updated: Three Steps To Save America (VDARE; October 2011)

The basic concept behind a long-term Sailer Strategy for Republicans: You want more of the kind of people likely to vote for your party in the country and fewer of the kind of people likely to vote for the other party.

A Sailer Strategy for the long run would have three main elements:

• First: the voters most likely to vote Republican are whites who are married with children. So you want your base to thrive.

• Second: since the GOP is inevitably the white party, you want marginally white people from places like Latin America and South Asia to identify as white.

• Third: you want to import fewer people who are likely to vote against your party.

Last week Ann Coulter wrote a column citing an (as yet unpublished) report compiled by Phyllis Schlafly that suggests immigration is changing the country. She notes how a continuation of current immigration policy and GOP acquiescence to immigration reform legislation spells doom for the Republican Party.

And it's fantastic for the Democrats, who are well on their way to a permanent majority, so they can completely destroy the last remnants of what was once known as “the land of the free.”

GOP Crafts Plan To Wreck The Country, Lose Voters (Ann Coulter; January 29, 2014)

Also last week, Right Wing Watch reviewed how racism and White Nationalism drives Republican opposition to immigration reform, but how they now use racial code language to imply that immigration undermines American politics and culture.

You Don't Say: Republicans Admit Anti-Immigrant Movement Driven By Racism​

 

[Benvolio]

Remember, the democrats are well aware the immigrants tend to vote democrat. Their strategy is a racist strategy; to promote massive immigration, and to encourage racial and class hatred to divide the country along those lines. Accusing all Republicans of racism naturally induces a backlash of anti white resentment on the part of non whites. Rants against the rich, including the dishonest claim that99% are poor induces class hatred, and since most of the rich are white, it reinforces the racial division strategy. While preaching racial and class resentment the democrats follow a socialist agenda of confiscatory taxes against whites with ever increasing promises of welfare and give aways.
The Republicans and the country, are thus in a bind. They cannot hope to beat the democrats in preaching racial and class hatred. And competing with democrats in socialist measures dooms the economy.
Your Right Watch quotes are a part of the democrat racist policy, I.e., intentionally changing the racial composition of the country for partisan purposes. Any resistance to the democrat strategy is labeled as racist. Any attempt to preserve the free enterprise economy is labeled a code word for racism. I had never heard of Sailor before you list the stuff from him, and I am sure very few Republicans have heard of him or agree with his ideas. I strongly suspect he is a liberal putting words into the mouths ofRepublicans.
If you feel any spark of patriotism, you should ask if there is any part of our country, other than the real estate, worth saving. The democrat answer is no; not the people, the western civilization, the English speaking culture, the free enterprise economy, or two party democracy. Anyone who values any of these things will be demonized.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Remember, the democrats are well aware the immigrants tend to vote democrat. Their strategy is a racist strategy; to promote massive immigration, and to encourage racial and class hatred to divide the country along those lines. Accusing all Republicans of racism naturally induces a backlash of anti white resentment on the part of non whites. Rants against the rich, including the dishonest claim that99% are poor induces class hatred, and since most of the rich are white, it reinforces the racial division strategy. While preaching racial and class resentment the democrats follow a socialist agenda of confiscatory taxes against whites with ever increasing promises of welfare and give aways.
The Republicans and the country, are thus in a bind. They cannot hope to beat the democrats in preaching racial and class hatred. And competing with democrats in socialist measures dooms the economy.
Your Right Watch quotes are a part of the democrat racist policy, I.e., intentionally changing the racial composition of the country for partisan purposes. Any resistance to the democrat strategy is labeled as racist. Any attempt to preserve the free enterprise economy is labeled a code word for racism. I had never heard of Sailor before you list the stuff from him, and I am sure very few Republicans have heard of him or agree with his ideas. I strongly suspect he is a liberal putting words into the mouths ofRepublicans.
If you feel any spark of patriotism, you should ask if there is any part of our country, other than the real estate, worth saving. The democrat answer is no; not the people, the western civilization, the English speaking culture, the free enterprise economy, or two party democracy. Anyone who values any of these things will be demonized.

The fact that in the last couple of election cycles immigrant votes have swung towards favoring Democrats is not evidence that Democrats intentionally increase immigration or intentionally speed up naturalization in order to shore up the ranks of Democratic voters. The simpler explanation by far is that immigrants and non whites do not want to vote for a party that paints them as the enemies and as abusers and criminals to be either deported or in other ways persecuted.

 

[opinterph]

Accusing all Republicans of racism

It’s not all Republicans – but a subset that has fallen into a trap of illogical nonsense. One common identifier is the manner in which they use faux concern for minorities as an excuse to spread their contempt for immigrants. It is time for the GOP to reexamine the source of this pretext that suggests America will be destroyed if we allow millions of new immigrants to flood into the country, taking American jobs, getting handouts, creating pollution, and disturbing the serenity of everything that is wonderful and good.

Those who espouse that nonsense effectively divide the country by hiding behind weak economic and social assertions which serve little purpose other than to embolden the perceptions they promote, while creating fear among the uninformed. “If we don’t act now, it will soon be too late to save the country.”

If the Republican Party doesn’t find its way out of this folly, then it – not America – is in jeopardy of being lost. The future demands genuine leadership, not fear mongering.

I had never heard of Sailor [sic] before you list the stuff from him, …

And I had never heard of Sailer either, until I studied the content of your posts and searched for the original source of that rationalization.

True Republicans need to understand this ideology, before the Party falls inextricably into its mantra of hatred and fear.

… the primary intent of this thread is to examine the relative legitimacy of [Steve Sailer’s] argument / moral theory / concept. And that determination is germane because its elements have found their way into the public discourse relative to US immigration policy.

 

[Benvolio]

The astonishing thing is that you cannot consider the effects of immigration beyond your absurd ad hominem thinking; massive immigration is good because Republican do not really care about poverty etc. You accuse us of insincerity when you do not even give a thought to the effect on minorities and you do not even pretend to care beyond the use of poverty as an excuse to confiscate the earnings and wealth of Americans. Liberals see little good about America and feel superior because the see all its faults. So of course you are dismissive of the concerns of people who think America is good and worth preserving.
It is beyond honest question that massive immigration holds down wages and increases poverty and unemployment.
Do you doubt that democrats want much higher taxes on Americans, or that immigrants, voting democrat will further that end? Do you doubt that Democrats want to move the country toward a socialist economy with higher and higher regulation of business? If you doubt our concern for minorities, surely you can understand our concern for the threat to our institutions which their poverty and
unemployment creates.
If you think America will not be destroyed, it depends on how you define America. If you think it is only real estate, then it will not be destroyed. You cannot doubt that the ethnicity, culture, values will be substantially changed. Why is it wrong for Americans to wish to protect those? You cannot doubt that our free enterprise or capitalist economy will be endangered. On a daily basis the democrats use poverty, the income gap and unemployment as excuses to demand changes to the economic system. But those are largely the effect of immigration.
I assure you that Sailor's writings are not directly or indirectly the source of my thinking. I and virtually everyone else would regard it as self evident that the first duty of any government is to its own citizens. It should be a good neighbor but not to the detriment of its own people. The only legitimate purpose of immigration is to benefit Americans to the extent that some immigration is beneficial. The government is supposed to be on our side. No immigrant has a right to come except insofar as the laws give them a right.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The astonishing thing is that you cannot consider the effects of immigration beyond your absurd ad hominem thinking; massive immigration is good because Republican do not really care about poverty etc. You accuse us of insincerity when you do not even give a thought to the effect on minorities but you do not even pretend to care beyond the use of poverty as an excuse to confiscate the earnings and wealth of Americans. Liberals see little good about America and feel superior because the see all its faults. So of course you are dismissive of the concerns of people who think America is good and worth preserving.
It is beyond honest question that massive immigration holds down wages and increases poverty and unemployment.

You do not support a single thing to help minorities, not even hiring guidelines that do not allow employers to hire in a discriminatory manner. This is just an utterly transparent argument of convenience you make for your protectionist nativist economic model which has utterly nothing to do with helping minorities.

Everyone sees through it. Time for a new tack.

 

[Benvolio]

Obama and the democrats have a vastly differently vision of what and who America should be in the future, and immigration is their tool for imposing that vision without the people knowing or having a voice..

 

[xbuzzerx]

Obama and the democrats have a vastly differently vision of what and who America should be in the future, and immigration is their tool for imposing that vision without the people knowing or having a voice..

America has always has immigration. That's how you're here. You're simply making up a different version of history pretending America has been one discrete native-born group of people who are now being assaulted by immigration and changing demographics. We have a lower foreign-born immigration population as a percentage of the total population than we did in the early 1900's.

You are laboring under the delusion that you are not simply the 21st century counterpart of people who said that Italians and Irish were going to make America into a degenerate, crime-overwhelmed Catholic puppet state taking orders from the Pope, or that the 19th century Chinese were going to outwork the whites so devastatingly that they'd have to start eating rat meat in order to compete in the labor force.

 

[Kulindahr]

You do not support a single thing to help minorities, not even hiring guidelines that do not allow employers to hire in a discriminatory manner. This is just an utterly transparent argument of convenience you make for your protectionist nativist economic model which has utterly nothing to do with helping minorities.

Everyone sees through it. Time for a new tack.

He's at least consistent: he opposes all policies that would actually help poor Americans, too.

America has always has immigration. That's how you're here. You're simply making up a different version of history pretending America has been one discrete native-born group of people who are now being assaulted by immigration and changing demographics. We have a lower foreign-born immigration population as a percentage of the total population than we did in the early 1900's.

You are laboring under the delusion that you are not simply the 21st century counterpart of people who said that Italians and Irish were going to make America into a degenerate, crime-overwhelmed Catholic puppet state taking orders from the Pope, or that the 19th century Chinese were going to outwork the whites so devastatingly that they'd have to start eating rat meat in order to compete in the labor force.

Well said.

 

[Benvolio]

The sad truth is the liberals/democrats want more poor and unemployed people. But they have not been told why they are supposed to want them.

 

[Benvolio]

opinterph, I have given several lengthy responses to your posts. I think you should make some attempt to explain why you think the benefits of large scale immigration exceed the negative effects on poverty, wages, employment, crime, housing, the environment, education, health care etc. Surely you realize that an attack on the motives of opponents is not a logical reason to continue. And you can see the illogic of arguments such as "we are a nation of immigrants."

 

[xbuzzerx]

opinterph, I have given several lengthy responses to your posts. I think you should make some attempt to explain why you think the benefits of large scale immigration exceed the negative effects on poverty, wages, employment, crime, housing, the environment, education, health care etc. Surely you realize that an attack on the motives of opponents is not a logical reason to continue. And you can see the illogic of arguments such as "we are a nation of immigrants."

When the motives of an opponent dictate their complete refusal to acknowledge contrary facts and continue to make speculative arguments about what will happen or what liberals want in complete opposite of reality or evidence... there is actually, in fact, no evidence that has ever been presented in any of these discussions you've derailed into the immigration topic, ever, showing that stopping immigration actually benefits the economy or workers in a real or noticeable way. And the argument that stopping it will help minorities is borderline hilarious to anyone less appallingly ignorant of U.S. History than you, because just as with you, the anti-immigration efforts themselves tended to be primarily based in anti-minority sentiment, whether it was wanting to keep Chinese, Mexicans or Catholics out. The Irish actually benefitted in America by riding the tide of anti-Chinese sentiment and spearheading the exclusionary political platform in western states.

 

[Kulindahr]

When the motives of an opponent dictate their complete refusal to acknowledge contrary facts and continue to make speculative arguments about what will happen or what liberals want in complete opposite of reality or evidence... there is actually, in fact, no evidence that has ever been presented in any of these discussions you've derailed into the immigration topic, ever, showing that stopping immigration actually benefits the economy or workers in a real or noticeable way. And the argument that stopping it will help minorities is borderline hilarious to anyone less appallingly ignorant of U.S. History than you, because just as with you, the anti-immigration efforts themselves tended to be primarily based in anti-minority sentiment, whether it was wanting to keep Chinese, Mexicans or Catholics out. The Irish actually benefitted in America by riding the tide of anti-Chinese sentiment and spearheading the exclusionary political platform in western states.

Anti-immigrant has always meant racism. The burden of proof is on those against immigration to show evidence that they are not racist. So far, it's mostly been a fail.