Americans want Obama to model himself after Reagan

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

while Reagan remains to be my favorite president, No on can walk in his shoes!!!!!

He's also one of mine -- but considering where his shoes have been, I wouldn't want to walk in them!

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

^ Yes, and Bush faithfully served in the [STRIKE]Texas[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Alabama[/STRIKE] Texas Air National Guard.

You can compare the records of people who obeyed orders and finished their military service with people who wandered off and -- I dunno, what do privileged boys do when they're not where they ought to be? if you want, but facts are facts. You can argue that a nobody like Reagan somehow got the Cav to declare him unfit for overseas duty, or that the Army Air Force gleefully glommed on to someone who at the time looked like a promising actor and sucked him in, but the facts remain that Reagan actually volunteered to enter the military, began as a private, got promoted to 2nd Lt., reported for active duty, "liased" with people who loaded ships for a while, requested a transfer (I would have, too -- can't port people do their jobs without a 'liason' hanging about?), and ended up being assigned to make films for cheering up the public and getting more bodies to assign themselves as targets.

Reagan volunteered, yet you attack him.
So by your own logic: sign up, or shut up.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

At any rate -- departing from Alfie's lies about Reagan -- if Obama were to model himself after this man who volunteered for military service, what would we get?

A broad vision that would make Americans in general positive and optimistic -- not a bad thing, but a tough task at this time.

A number of sweeping programs that resulted in impressive accomplishments -- I can go for some of that.

An incredibly naive trust in advisors who didn't bother to think ahead more than six months, thus creating problems for the future (which means, us).

A foolish innocence which went along with actions contrary to the Constitution and made his party look like crap.

A moralistic crusade that tromped on states' rights and set the stage for the ReligioPublican travesty which handed us GW Bush.

In graphic imagery, someone who adds a nice wing to the house, shows us a good time, gets rid of a nasty neighbor... and fails to clean the kitchen, empty the trash, live within the budget.....


Okay, don't push that image too far -- but do we really want that? Seriously, if Obama did like Reagan, when he's done the terrorist problem would be gone -- and we'd have a national debt of $20 trillion, have generated some new enemies for the next generation to deal with, have more moral codes written into the law.....

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

Some further research has supported your claims; I stand corrected.

I reiterate, however, that Reagan's legacy hardly supports conservative principles of fiscal responsibility. It must be remembered that he lowered taxes—foolishly, as it turned out—during the tail end of the Cold War

I think he had good reasons for his violation of his own principles; it kicked the Soviet Union in the ass, causing the teetering colossus to finally totter and tumble. But without the extreme tax cuts, he could have done it without doubling the debt; I guesstimate "only" a 50% increase instead of a 100% one, if he'd just waited to do the tax cuts much later.

I'm far more down on him for focusing so much on his grand vision that he let tons of details go, which fed a monster Carter had birthed and gave us 9/11. Reagan certainly didn't start that fire, but he sure let his people heap fuel on it without asking just what their towering inferno was going to result in.

Americans who want Obama to model himself after Reagan are thinking most likely of the grand vision and his contagious optimism, forgetting his sloppiness that kept us aimed at tragedy.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

clinton/albright caused 9/11 then bush/rice finished it off

Totally off-base -- but that's another thread.

 

[jktoooo]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/...dr-lead-presidential-role-models,684604.shtml

Excerpt:

such a joke.....and so who did they vote in?

the most far left, radical socialist.

Nice going America (those goons who voted for Osama....I mean obama).

 

[snapcat]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

Kuli, it would appear that Alfie has called your bluff and backed up his claims.

Would you care to withdraw your assertion at this point?

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

The USSR gets first place for causing its dissolution, the US second place, because it was the Soviet policies that sought to engage and compete with the US were the same policies that bankrupted its economy and set into motion the decentralization trends that allowed for the Eastern Bloc to breakaway peacefully. I said the US gets second credit because it actively competed with the USSR & upped the ante progressively - Reagan, such a show man, was the final act in that play.

For analogy, consider China: running strong precisely because (after Korea) it never seriously competed with the US for a sphere of influence until it had the economic means to move in - taking a lesson, perhaps from my grandparents' generation, not to spend what you don't have (yet).

LOL -- I suppose the USSR does get first place! I like that.

Reagan gets credit for more than just being the last act, because he made sure he was. Up until Reagan, the policy had been containment, which basically meant let the Soviets survive so long as they don't become a real pain in the ass. Reagan turned that around, making U.S. policy one of being a pain in the ass to the Soviets everywhere possible, requiring them to burn resources on more fronts than they could possibly afford. Containment let them keep their balance so long as they were careful; Reagan decided that was lame, and walked over and kicked the balance beam, so to speak, and kept kicking till it was time to jump out of the way. He used both carrot and stick, and threw a few rocks, to stretch a metaphor, keeping them off balance until it became evident that they couldn't possibly keep the lid on all the pots they had on the stove -- on which Reagan had kept adding more and more heat. When they had to pull out of Afghanistan, it showed them for the castle of ice they were... and the rest is history.

Claiming that Reagan finished them and won the Cold War isn't saying he went out like some knight in shining armor, lance on arm to slay the dragon, it's more like saying that the dragon was limping and bleeding, and he charged, yelling, "Finish it, already!" Or to return to a previous metaphor, he didn't cause their wobbly balance, but accentuated it until they couldn't stay on the beam.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

Please. You haven't clue one as to the facts. From a fellating biographer of "Ronnie," Lou Cannon:

Christ, Reagan makes Dick "Big Five Deferments" Cheney look like a fucking warrior!

Gee, that's nice, but the facts remain:

Reagan volunteered; he was never a "draft dogder" as you love to claim.
He didn't seek to avoid serving -- all your source here says is that his employers sought it.
He served in the Cav, he went active -- once his employer was finished with him, it seems -- and he reported for duty.

Nowhere do you show that a military doctor nixed his going overseas because of eyesight, nor that he was derelict in the duties he was assigned.


So my challenge stands: since Regan volunteered, and you haven't, either sign up, or shut up.



The really ridiculous thing about your attempts to cram him into your pre-conceived mold for Republican politicians is that if you want to be negative on his ass, there's an awful lot of ammunition that has sound ground under it, as opposed to your imagination.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

Kuli, it would appear that Alfie has called your bluff and backed up his claims.

Would you care to withdraw your assertion at this point?

Referring back to my claims -- he hasn't called squat: every item I posted stands... which it ought to, since it's based on official histories from the U.S. military and a number of online sources, not all friendly to Reagan.

So my assertion stands: Alfie has been lying about Reagan, has been called on it, and keeps doing it.
If Alfie had volunteered for the Reserve, and gone through a similar series of events as Reagan did, and someone started calling him a "draft dodger" and other names, I'd defend him as well.

As it is, though, Alfie should stop slandering his betters, or follow his own logic:

sign up, or shut up.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

BTW, while I was looking back at post 66, I noticed that the way it got formatted, it appears that I'm claiming that Reagan was ordered to join a gay porn site.....

Can you fix that, snap? I keep forgetting to turn off the automatic link thing, post after post.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

Snaps, does K have you on "ignore?" Or is his eyesight "going bad," like "Rhonnie's" did (not)?

Oh, it's so sad, so sad to be the one to burst the right wing's bubble, its inflated crapola about "Hero Rhonnie." Fact is, Reagan was as big a coward as Bush and Cheney. He was just another right wing coward.

Gosh, it just seems like there's this pattern, this pattern of deception among the Stay At Home Republicans, doesn't it? It seems they who Talk Tuffest are the ones who Dodge the Mostest.

How you love to slander the truth!

The ones who "stay at home" are the Democrats: just look at the stats for who actually love their country, as measured by voluntary enlistment in the military.

Statistically, those who "Dodge the Mostest" are Democrats.
Statistically, those who show they love America by putting themselves between their loved ones and war's desolation are Republicans.

It might help, Alfie, if you argued against actual people here, instead of against your fantasies of who we are. It would help more if you stopped looking on your opinions as facts. It would show you actually regard others here as people, not just as bits of data to be manipulated like pieces in your post pics.

And it would save you from making posts where you insinuate things about people, but where the only word relevant to the person you're aiming at is the first letter of the screen name.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

^ Oh, yes yes yes! Jack Warner sent the letter to the draft board WITHOUT Rhonnie's knowledge or without Rhonnie begging, pleading for his boss to send it!

Why wasn't Rhonnie's "bad eyesight" noted by Ye Olde Doctors in the Cavalry? How can you deny that Reagan, who was a leader in the SAG, didn't use his influence for "other" considerations?

Look, I'm the one presenting the facts -- all you are doing is putting your hands over your ears and singing "LALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" Shit, anyone can do THAT.

GUILTY. Case closed.

I hear you perfectly: you're presenting your own opinions as facts. Then you present things that aided the formation of your opinions, as though they proved your opinions to be facts, when they don't.
You presented nothing at all to show that Reagan asked for the deferment. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but when you say it as though it were a fact, you're lying.
Show me a source saying, "young Ronald Reagan begged and pleaded with Jack Warner to get him a deferment", and I'll believe you.

I have no clue why Cav docs didn't say anything about his eyesight. I do know that at least one Army Air Force doc did, because that's in multiple sources.
But all you've got is insinuation, guesses, hands waving in the air to present your own view of what happened -- not facts.

And all I'm doing is holding you to your own standards. You scream and cry for others to provide sources, and you have yet to provide a single one that established your assertions. So by your standards, you're the guilty one here.

So here's just your own challenge tossed back at you. You make such a case against people who support the Bush invasion of Iraq by telling them to enlist or be silent; well, Reagan enlisted, and you haven't, so--

Once again: show yourself as much a man as Reagan did by signing up -- or shut up.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

Really? You say "Statistically, those who "Dodge the Mostest" are Democrats." Fine. I'll accept that when you present cites,, as I ALWAYS do. Where are they? Where are your cites? Where is the proof, where are the "Statistics" that you speak of?

Do you always go to a gun fight with your Tom Mix pocket knife?

Ooh, Alfie, what a nice dodge!

"Dodge the Mostest"? I said that?
Your idiosyncratic view of reality is showing -- you think just like George "Praise God he's gone!" W. Bush: they're either with me, or against me. That's fascinating.

I pointed out the information in another thread, where someone else had posted it, and you ignored it there, too.
Maybe it was from someone you have on ignore?


I've had this sitting for hours while I looked for that thread -- no luck. All I find on a quick google was that in the Army, officers are Republican/conservative at twice the rate of Democrats.

I did find a "poll" which "found" that military personnel are three times as likely to be Republicans as Democrats, but since it was sufficiently less than scientific that someone who flunked Statistics 101 in college would see the problems, it wasn't even worth posting for laughs.

Anyone here recall the thread where the stats were posted?

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Americans want Obama to model himself after Re

.
.
If that's true it would be no surprise, because the born-agains have taken over the U.S. military..
.
Evangelical Chaplains Test Bounds of Faith in Military

"These people should be court-martialed"

Former Air Force officer Mikey Weinstein says evangelicals are trying to turn his beloved military into a "frickin' faith-based initiative."

U.S. Military's Middle East Crusade for ChristEvangelizing the military

The more I read of this the more I believe there are more Republicans than Democrats in the military.

With that kind of crap going on, maybe we need to back up to an older Code of Military Justice, where behavior contrary to an officer's oath to uphold the Constitution could result in the lash.

As a Christian, I find that stuff abhorrent. We may yet end up with the U.S. as a third-world theocratic country.