And still they don't learn [School Shooting in Winder Georgia]

[NotHardUp1]

If historical legacy is all that it is, then, like every other good Englishman, I'd be walking around today armed with a longbow and a quiver full of arrows. I don't of course, nor do I claim any legal right to do so if I wished.

Yes, but when I visited England, I noticed much of your green space is tightly controlled, and hunting isn't really a thing there as it is here. We've never had the best forests set aside for royal privilege. Even the poorest Americans have had access to abundant wildlife for supplementing food, or for sport.

And, the U.S. carved out the right to bear arms from our very beginning. That Constitutional right did not cause our present crisis, as we happily survived for some two centuries with widespread gun ownership without shooting up our workplaces and our schools.

A change in the American psyche is at fault, and it is enabled by the too-ready access to firearms. So, firearms should be restricted, but there's no possibility of them being banned, even if we succeed in banning the assaut weapons. Our future is bleak.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Change the laws. Simple. 90% of Americans have no legitimate reason to hold firearms any more.

That's a pretty arbitrary assessment.

In a nation where crime is rampant, a citizen has indeed a right to protect his home. Casually accepting that he may be overpowered in his home or even killed by theives and other malefactors isn't acceptable. Claiming that police protection is real is as simplistic as it is wrong. In most cases, their response time gives them little more than the ability to appear at a crime scene after it is over.

And the majority of murders in the US are never solved, so you wouldn't even see justice after your murder.

No, but no one alleges that criminal possession of guns will end, so arguing that the law-abiding must cede the world over to the thieves is a non-starter.

In your own country, there is a rising reaction from the right in regards to growing unchecked crime. It is because the "simple" solutions have not worked there either.

 

[NotHardUp1]

When I look back on my childhood, almost every neighbor was a gun owner. Now I wonder how many of my friends brought guns to school, and nobody knew?

Historically, guns would not have been in schools until juvenile crime became a thing. It was at one time an urban problem, not common in rural schools.

As late as the 70's, even school stabbings were still rare, even though most boys carried pocket knives.

 

[Alistair]

Murder rates have been generally trending down, and I think that has a lot to do with gun controls that have been put in place.

Yes, these mass shooting events have increased and I do put a lot of blame on social media and parents not parenting.

U.S. Murder Rate By Year | Trend Chart (2025)

Uncover the trends in the U.S. murder rate from 1985 to 2023 with our comprehensive analysis of year-on-year homicide statistics and their societal impact.

www.consumershield.com

 

[NotHardUp1]

Murder rates have been generally trending down, and I think that has a lot to do with gun controls that have been put in place.

Yes, these mass shooting events have increased and I do put a lot of blame on social media and parents not parenting.

U.S. Murder Rate By Year | Trend Chart (2025)

Uncover the trends in the U.S. murder rate from 1985 to 2023 with our comprehensive analysis of year-on-year homicide statistics and their societal impact.

www.consumershield.com

It could also be argued that the murder rates have fallen due to the very high incarceration rates.

 

[rareboy]

Yes, but when I visited England, I noticed much of your green space is tightly controlled, and hunting isn't really a thing there as it is here. We've never had the best forests set aside for royal privilege. Even the poorest Americans have had access to abundant wildlife for supplementing food, or for sport.

And, the U.S. carved out the right to bear arms from our very beginning. That Constitutional right did not cause our present crisis, as we happily survived for some two centuries with widespread gun ownership without shooting up our workplaces and our schools.

A change in the American psyche is at fault, and it is enabled by the too-ready access to firearms. So, firearms should be restricted, but there's no possibility of them being banned, even if we succeed in banning the assaut weapons. Our future is bleak.

It wasn't from the very beginning. It wasn't even the First Amendment.

 

[NotHardUp1]

It wasn't from the very beginning. It wasn't even the First Amendment.

If you're suggesting that there was ever a successful movement to curtain home ownership of fireams since the US became a nation, please do elaborate.

Quibbling about primacy doesn't establish anything. The first 10 amendments were ratified simultaneously, so their numbering means nothing in rank.

Additionally, the points about the history of gun ownership in America are unchanged. Simply owning guns has not been the trigger for rampant violence for almost two centuries here.

The violence has evolved as a psychological problem, and not just for mass shootings. We have become a violent people. Our sports celebrate violence. Our movies celebrate murderous violence. Our video games celebrate violence, and sometimes agains harmless candies.

Advocating the abolition of guns will not make us less violent, only limit those who are not committed to their violence.

 

[rareboy]

As I noted before, Americans have capitulated to the gun industry and to living in their own wild west mythology.

It now only sees mass killings as an inconvenience...having given up on doing anything meaningful to prevent them.

 

[rareboy]

 

[NotHardUp1]

As I noted before, Americans have capitulated to the gun industry and to living in their own wild west mythology.

It now only sees mass killings as an inconvenience...having given up on doing anything meaningful to prevent them.

By no means.

It's not some cowboy gunslinger people are worried about. It's the myriad home break-ins and thefts that are the hallmark of being middle-classed and having stealable things.

My home was burgled twice in Albuquerque, and I didn't even have anything worth stealing. And my reaction wasn't to buy a gun, but I have no family to protect either, so being at risk was my personal choice.

As for school and workplace shootings, I was a high school teacher, so I'm not as moved by those who think their children deserve to live.

 

[cityboy-stl]

As I noted before, Americans have capitulated to the gun industry and to living in their own wild west mythology.

It now only sees mass killings as an inconvenience...having given up on doing anything meaningful to prevent them.

Exactly. Worshiping the murder weapon takes priority over those murdered by them.

 

[cityboy-stl]

As well as:
Background checks.
Licensing requirements.
Safe storage requirements.
No one under 21 may possess a firearm.
Periodic independent inspections.
Ban all semi-automatic AR-15 type and style assault weapons, except for military and law enforcement.

If you want to own a weapon, you must show you are properly trained and certified able to use it safely, that you are able to properly store and maintain it, and of sound mind.

We are not talking about lollipops here.

 

[peeonme]

View attachment 2698010

As well as:
Background checks.
Licensing requirements.
Safe storage requirements.
No one under 21 may possess a firearm.
Periodic independent inspections.
Ban all semi-automatic AR-15 type and style assault weapons, except for military and law enforcement.

If you want to own a weapon, you must show you are properly trained and certified able to use it safely, that you are able to properly store and maintain it, and of sound mind.

We are not talking about lollipops here.

I agree with most of this, problem being that it would go to the Supreme Court and be overturned.

 

[EddMarkStarr]

Local police can only enforce state and local gun laws. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) enforce federal gun laws, so I've always treated shootings as local events to be handled at the local level. What I'm hearing from Washington State officials is that the United States has awful parents nationwide when it comes to gun handling practices.

 

[Alistair]

Local police can only enforce state and local gun laws. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) enforce federal gun laws, so I've always treated shootings as local events to be handled at the local level. What I'm hearing from Washington State officials is that the United States has awful parents nationwide when it comes to gun handling practices.

Gun safety at home would be a huge start

 

[peeonme]

Local police can only enforce state and local gun laws. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) enforce federal gun laws, so I've always treated shootings as local events to be handled at the local level. What I'm hearing from Washington State officials is that the United States has awful parents nationwide when it comes to gun handling practices.

Laws need to be passed that have teeth. Your child uses a gun from your home that results in a homicide and if it can be proven that the gun didn't have a trigger lock or was not placed in a safe then both the child (if tried as an adult) and parent(s) should be facing life with no parole. Gun classes should be mandatory.

 

[rareboy]

hahaha

good luck getting anything like that passed.

when you have adults buying kids guns and open carry laws.

 

[Alistair]

Maybe they should just start charging every parent with accessory to murder for these mass school shooters, if that’s the only way to get parents to be responsible for the guns in their homes.

 

[rareboy]

BTW ‘Pro Life’ would be 20 Sandy Hook students starting college this Fall.

 

[rareboy]

And this is why, if all the people who think they have all the answers about how things should work continue to not vote, or vote for people owned by the gun industry, nothing will change. Except the names of the victims.