Anti-depressants & Virginia Tech. shooting

[NickCole]

I think you're right and I think they're going to cause a lot more damage before we're through. A lot more.

Furthermore, this nation's growing dependence on sleeping pills is going to cause a lot a damage before we're through.

American's trust and belief in the pharmaceutical industry, and the FDA, is misplaced and the law of unintended consequences is going to come down hard. Americans are paying a fortune to put garbage in their bodies that have all kinds of side effects, some of which we don't even know about yet.

 

[JASON0980]

i think they need to be watched closer. anti-depressants in them selves are not bad. its that they are being prescribed when they are not needed, and to often when they are needed the dosage is just wrong. anti-depressants can be a big help, when the doctor knows what the hell there doing.

 

[dunno260]

Perhaps its because they were mentally ill and not the drugs?

I am on anti-depressants, in fact lots and lots and lots of people are on them. The far majority of us (of course) don't go around shooting people or have any ideations to do so. In fact, most of us would be much worse off without the pharmacological help. In fact, even if you are on a brand name anti-depressant, drug therapy is cheaper than talk therapy for depression (this is different for other conditions).

These drugs that you hate saved my life, and have saved countless other lives. I also plan to go into the medical community as a physician and can also tell you that we don't hide the side effects of medication (well the majority of the ethical ones). There are side effects and you balance risk/reward. Do you take an anti-depressant that might cause weight gain which leads to an increased risk of heart trouble. You do if the depression is a more imminent threat. Morphine is terribly addictive, but do we still allow it so that people will not suffer pain? There is no such thing as a perfectly safe drug. It doesn't exist, and anyone who makes such a claim is lieing to you. It doesn't matter where the drug comes from, what studies back it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

However, compared to where medicine has been, we have come a long, long way. Our quality of life is greater than it has ever been in the first world. We die of conditions brought about by our long life span. The triumph of medicine in the 20th century is one of the major themes of that century and one of its most defining moments. We have a greater understanding of ourselves and life itself because of it. We have eliminated smallpox from the world. We are close to erradicating polio. We are making huge strides in the treatment of cancer. Just recently we have a way to virtually eliminate cervical cancer. AIDS, the most pressing health concern of the late 20th century and the 21st century isn't a death sentence any more. Childbirth is no longer the dangerous event it once was. We now expect our children to live past there first year of life. An infection is no longer likely to kill you. A broken bone can be mended. A man can labor until the age of 65 today and reasonably expect to live another 15 to 20 years.

The tragedy is that most of the advances are confined to the first world, and that the health inequity in the world is as bad as the economic inequity in the world. That is a problem. Its a huge problem.

There is evil in the world, and we want to find something to blame to soothe our horror at tragedies such as what happened. Maybe if we had better gun control. Maybe if someone had intervened. Maybe if we didn't have anti-depressants. Maybe, maybe, maybe. The truth is there are things in the world we can't control, its a price we pay for being human that occasionally we will be faced with the horrors of what we are capable of. All we can hope is that we minimize those horrors and that out of some tragedy some good will come of it, anything at all.

 

[rotary]

I think these dangerous drugs should be taken off the market. What do you guys think?

Although antidepressants are over-prescribed, they are not dangerous, and should definitely not be taken off the market. You're blaming the treatment for this violence, not the actual illness.

 

[Christopher123]

Uh-huh.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/06/news/suicide.php

 

[rotary]

Uh-huh.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/06/news/suicide.php

Uh-huh. Let's look at a more recent conclusion:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-04/uops-asf041207.php

"By combining data from most of the significant studies of antidepressant use in adolescents and children, we’ve been able to examine a balance of benefits and risks of these medications. "Antidepressants are safe and effective for treating disorders like anxiety, OCD and depression in children and adolescents," Dr. Brent continued. "While there is a small, increased risk of suicidal thoughts in those who use antidepressants, it would be much, much riskier to not treat these children and adolescents dealing with these disorders."

 

[luckotheirish]

I'm a pharmacist and I see people who take antidepressants all. day. long. They are phenomenally common.

Having said that, I believe a great many are either
- on them unnecessarily
- on the wrong one
- on the wrong dose
- being treated by the wrong prescriber (since many aren't physicians)
- not getting talk therapy when they need it
- not getting follow up treatment

The vast majority of these drugs are prescribed by general practitioners, primary care physicians, or nurse practitioners. You would be stunned to know how little training these prescribers receive in psychiatry. I believe that most would benefit from being referred to a psychiatrist who is extremely well trained to evaluate and treat these conditions.

There are other classes of psychotropic drugs beyond antidepressants. But it seems that when a patient tells their provider they're not "feeling right", the knee-jerk reaction is for the prescriber to write for their favorite SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor). Often this is not the best first choice but it gets prescribed anyway.

And as Christopher123's article reference indicates, there is INDEED evidence to suggest that many of these drugs have what is termed a "paradoxical" reaction in young people. They CAN produce suicidal tendencies. Prescribers were made aware of this 2 years ago in mailings directly from the FDA. Since that time I received no less than 6! And I will tell you I did not see ANY change in prescribing habits. It almost appears as though the warnings were ignored.

Finally, I don't think these drugs should be removed for being dangerous. There are many far more dangerous drugs in use and benefitting people and I see many who benefit from antidepressants. But I believe considerably more caution should be used when making decisions about which one, what dose, what prescriber, or whether to use them at all.

 

[slobone]

I think it's a little early to say exactly what this guy's history and problem was.

 

[Christopher123]

Uh-huh. Let's look at a more recent conclusion:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-04/uops-asf041207.php

I'm just saying that from personal experience (myself as well as friends) some become even more depressed on anti-depressants.

I know not everyone is the same and all drugs will affect people differently. But there ARE still people out there who kill themselves while on this medication.

Then again there are people who kill themselves while NOT on any medication.

But yes, I know anti-depressants have helped many people as well.

 

[rotary]

I have to say that I diagree. That's just the problem, why are so many people on them? No we are not better off today because of drugs. And I think it's sad that so many people are on drugs for various ailments. Sleeping aids, pain killers, anti depressants, antibiotics, statins and the list goes on and on we are treating the human body like a chemistry experiment. Pumping these man made chemicals in the body solve nothing. In fact they often create more problems some of which are worse than the original one. If modern medicine truly wanted to make improvements they'd try to eliminate the source of people's ailments ,which in most cases is poor diet, instead of covering the symptoms with drugs. High blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes and even some cancers are diseases that can be completely avoided by a clean diet and lifestyle. It's funny that inspite of all our drugs and modern technology this country still leads the nation in virtually every health problem known to mankind. And it's only going to get worse. Modern medicine has done nothing but manage diseases with drugs it hasn't cured anything lately. And I don't think it ever will. The pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable industry in this country and the only way they can maintain their lofty ranks is to keep people enslaved to their products. There is no health care in this country. True health care is teaching and informing people how to prevent sickness and disease not dope them up with drugs when they get ill. Yes, your right there are somethings in this world we can't control. But we have a lot of control over our physical, mental and emotional health. I just believe in the philosophy of Hippocrates, the father of medicine. He stated that we should "let food be our medicine and medicine be our food." I think if people lived by this standard many of the health problems including mental illness would become obsolete. I am not saying anti depressants are completely responsible for these terrible acts. But you can't deny the fact that a lot people who committed acts like this were on some mind altering drug.

.

A lot of it has to do with personal choice. Government can't force people to eat healthy and exercise. People eat what they want, become obese and develop Type II Diabetes, have to buy insulin and other drugs to treat conditions that are common among diabetics (especially if they refuse to exercise/eat better to bring their diabetes down to a diet-controlled level) which ultimately puts money in the pockets of drug companies.

 

[JayHawk]

ANti-depressents mask the problem more often than they solve the over-riding issue. Lets treat the issue and not mask it with dope.

I can not believe me and Nick Cole actually agree on something.

 

[Riverrick]

Boy is this thread rife with unsupported statements and generalizations.

 

[khushibagh]

I think it's a little early to say exactly what this guy's history and problem was.

I think that is exactly right. We don't have enough information about this particular case. However, antidepressants can sometimes break through the passivity caused by depression before raising the person's mood. Therefore, someone who was too lacking in energy to actually get up and kill themself or others may get the energy to do that. I believe the phenomenon is called activation.

 

[SpankThePony]

He was on anty pdepressants because he was showing signs of agreshion and dis-satisfication with life and particular disliking for the rich.
I dont know about over in america, but here there is no hideing that he is on anty-depressants.

In fact, even if you are on a brand name anti-depressant, drug therapy is cheaper than talk therapy for depression (this is different for other conditions).

Drugs should never be seen as an alternative to actual therapy, there effectivness is no where near the same.
It's just like aspirin, they hide the pain but don’t cure it.

why are so many people on them? No we are not better off today because of drugs.

People who have just receaved an organ transplant.
People suffering HIV
People with astma
the list goes on and on.
Drugs used propperly and appropriatly have very good effects and prolong and improve the quality of life in many people.

There is little to nothing a diet can do to help the conditions I just mentioned.

He stated that we should "let food be our medicine and medicine be our food." I think if people lived by this standard many of the health problems including mental illness would become obsolete.

Go find a case study that supports this conclusion.
Otherwise don’t make blind blanket statements that can’t be supported.
While diet and life style can contribute a lot to illness there are other things involved that are far from controllable.

 

[Joshua_me]

I saw an interview tonight on CNN that stated that while he HAD been
treated with anti-depressants, that was years ago, and he had not taken them in quite some time.....

Make of that what you will.