On-Topic ANTIFA: When is Violence Justified?

[fabulouslyghetto]

Again, who decides who gets to speak? It is likely to be based on wild exaggerations, like yours. No one is being terrorized, and blacks certainly cannot claim to be the victims. With only 15% of the population, they commit half the violent crimes.

I'm going to ignore you manipulating and obfuscating statistics to support your racist agenda and address the actual topic. Who decides? The govt. A good rule of thumb would be if killing a large group of people is part of your platform this constitutes hate speech. That's agreeable, no? I'd go further to say expressing and promoting hatred period against an entire group of people would constitute hate speech but I know it's better to ween you off in baby steps vs cold turkey.

I must say, never thought that in my adult years I would have to explain to another grown ass adult why people should NOT have the right to promote hatred and violence against each other. I won't insult your intelligence or my own by asking how it benefits a nation to have the right to preach about killing ethnic groups, I mean shit you know full well what you're saying and not saying because you know it'd get you an infraction. Just remember, please, that I'm not nearly as stupid as you believe I am.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Too bad ANTIFA wasn't around in Nazi Germany...

...at least six million people would have been eternally grateful....

My POV on this is simple...one side is compromised of hate groups that incite violence and want to kill people and have a history of doing so...

The other wants to stop them....

No comparison.....

Quoted and bolded for truth. And as always I'd like to remind that the inverse of this would never be tolerated. What's being proposed is that white people should have the right to incite hatred against ethnic minorities. But I PROMISE you they'll be singing a whole new song if a bunch of hispanics or black panthers congregate on a street corner to preach ethnic cleansing of whites. This is meant to continue a legacy and heritage of white supremacy, intolerance and inequality it has NOTHING to do with freedom, and I'm moderately insulted that people such as benvolio think we can't see the difference.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

The image reminds me of a truth most folks want to forget: that the Civil Rights movement only survived and then thrived because Martin Luther King had the Deacons for Defense as an armed and determined group keeping himself, his helpers, and their homes and churches safe.

Which was a job in and of itself, he was a hated, targeted man-- on a larger scale no different from Colin Kaepernick. The precedent in this country has long been set. White people are allowed to be as angry as they want and vocalize it directed towards whoever they want, but brown-skinned people aren't allowed to have grievances, even if there's a mountain of evidence that the system is still slanted against them. If blacks complain then they're ungrateful and need to "get the fuck out of Amurrica." Kinda funny if it weren't so obscene. A group that accounts for disproportionate incarceration rates and is still subject to financial, social, political and employment inequality is supposed to shut up and be glad we live in America, but a billionaire tv star who owns hotels and golf courses can make an entire campaign out of "America sucks now let's make it great again."

 

[MakeItTonite]

Antifa is defending against hate -- it's right in the name.

And ironically some self-described Antifa happen to be the biggest "fascists." If you don't agree with their extreme ideology and hate wholeheartedly, there's a good chance that it might suddenly become open season on you. This might mean that you're subject to their tactics such as theft, vandalism, and physical harm to you and your property. You don't like that? Well, they don't care: they're right and you're wrong. They have no respect for law, authority, etc.

 

[Benvolio]

Which was a job in and of itself, he was a hated, targeted man-- on a larger scale no different from Colin Kaepernick. The precedent in this country has long been set. White people are allowed to be as angry as they want and vocalize it directed towards whoever they want, but brown-skinned people aren't allowed to have grievances, even if there's a mountain of evidence that the system is still slanted against them. If blacks complain then they're ungrateful and need to "get the fuck out of Amurrica." Kinda funny if it weren't so obscene. A group that accounts for disproportionate incarceration rates and is still subject to financial, social, political and employment inequality is supposed to shut up and be glad we live in America, but a billionaire tv star who owns hotels and golf courses can make an entire campaign out of "America sucks now let's make it great again."

When you charge big money and get rich selling tickets to entertain people, but insult then them, you are going to have some angry customers. It is called biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[MakeItTonite]

Quoted and bolded for truth. And as always I'd like to remind that the inverse of this would never be tolerated. What's being proposed is that white people should have the right to incite hatred against ethnic minorities. But I PROMISE you they'll be singing a whole new song if a bunch of hispanics or black panthers congregate on a street corner to preach ethnic cleansing of whites. This is meant to continue a legacy and heritage of white supremacy, intolerance and inequality it has NOTHING to do with freedom, and I'm moderately insulted that people such as benvolio think we can't see the difference.

Actually, that's exactly what a black person did to me on my way home in old Los Angeles downtown when I was taking public transit and just trying to get home from work. (That old Los Angeles downtown doesn't exist anymore, by the way.) That's the inverse you say? I didn't think anything of it other than just another "downtown nut" and hoped my public transit ride would come soon. Ugh.

Please show me a current example of how "wypipo" do this sort of thing on your street corners or anywhere else, and get away with it. They're trying to kill you?

 

[Kulindahr]

Too bad ANTIFA wasn't around in Nazi Germany...

...at least six million people would have been eternally grateful....

My POV on this is simple...one side is compromised of hate groups that incite violence and want to kill people and have a history of doing so...

The other wants to stop them....

No comparison.....

Actually there are some groups claiming the antifa label which have urged violence. that;s to be expected; the idiocy comes in when some on the right decide that those are the "real" antifa, just as some on the left decided that racists were the "real" Tea Party.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

They have no respect for law, authority, etc.

How is one supposed to have respect for those parties when they have continually shown no respect for their very own citizens that they are supposed to be in place to protect? I can't really blame many people at all having no respect for things like authority or the Government.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm going to ignore you manipulating and obfuscating statistics to support your racist agenda and address the actual topic. Who decides? The govt. A good rule of thumb would be if killing a large group of people is part of your platform this constitutes hate speech. That's agreeable, no? I'd go further to say expressing and promoting hatred period against an entire group of people would constitute hate speech but I know it's better to ween you off in baby steps vs cold turkey.

I must say, never thought that in my adult years I would have to explain to another grown ass adult why people should NOT have the right to promote hatred and violence against each other. I won't insult your intelligence or my own by asking how it benefits a nation to have the right to preach about killing ethnic groups, I mean shit you know full well what you're saying and not saying because you know it'd get you an infraction. Just remember, please, that I'm not nearly as stupid as you believe I am.

Something he fails to note is that experiments have been done with other mammals where a part of their population is put in conditions equivalent to those of American inner cities, with the result that they get violent. Expecting to confine some of us higher mammals in the conditions of our inner cities and have many NOT respond as typical mammals is insane.

One of my favorite sci-fi authors once proposed that we take one in four city blocks from our inner cities and put them in new towns of 20k or so along the interstates for this very reason.

BTW, this verifies something that is contrary to the "Wild West" myth: frontier societies provide an outlet for the main society so that both end up with less violence. The less the U.S. resembles a frontier society, the more we can expect violence to increase (especially when we have that "Wild West" myth which exalts violence).

 

[Kulindahr]

Which was a job in and of itself, he was a hated, targeted man-- on a larger scale no different from Colin Kaepernick. The precedent in this country has long been set. White people are allowed to be as angry as they want and vocalize it directed towards whoever they want, but brown-skinned people aren't allowed to have grievances, even if there's a mountain of evidence that the system is still slanted against them. If blacks complain then they're ungrateful and need to "get the fuck out of Amurrica." Kinda funny if it weren't so obscene. A group that accounts for disproportionate incarceration rates and is still subject to financial, social, political and employment inequality is supposed to shut up and be glad we live in America, but a billionaire tv star who owns hotels and golf courses can make an entire campaign out of "America sucks now let's make it great again."

This is why I wrote to the NRA and recommended they reduce Wayne LaPierre's salary from $999k to $50k and spend the rest on arming and training blacks in the inner city: the Deacons for Defense proved that armed ordinary citizens can shut down the violence.

Of course I got no reply.....

 

[Kulindahr]

And ironically some self-described Antifa happen to be the biggest "fascists." If you don't agree with their extreme ideology and hate wholeheartedly, there's a good chance that it might suddenly become open season on you. This might mean that you're subject to their tactics such as theft, vandalism, and physical harm to you and your property. You don't like that? Well, they don't care: they're right and you're wrong. They have no respect for law, authority, etc.

That's not irony, that's human nature. It's why MLK and Gandhi stand out so: it wasn't just them being non-violent, it was that they got their followers to do the same.

 

[Kulindahr]

How is one supposed to have respect for those parties when they have continually shown no respect for their very own citizens that they are supposed to be in place to protect? I can't really blame many people at all having no respect for things like authority or the Government.

As I recall, Machiavelli included this in his advice for running a republic/principality: you have to treat your citizens with respect, or you weaken the foundation of your society.

 

[Benvolio]

I'm going to ignore you manipulating and obfuscating statistics to support your racist agenda and address the actual topic. Who decides? The govt. A good rule of thumb would be if killing a large group of people is part of your platform this constitutes hate speech. That's agreeable, no? I'd go further to say expressing and promoting hatred period against an entire group of people would constitute hate speech but I know it's better to ween you off in baby steps vs cold turkey.

I must say, never thought that in my adult years I would have to explain to another grown ass adult why people should NOT have the right to promote hatred and violence against each other. I won't insult your intelligence or my own by asking how it benefits a nation to have the right to preach about killing ethnic groups, I mean shit you know full well what you're saying and not saying because you know it'd get you an infraction. Just remember, please, that I'm not nearly as stupid as you believe I am.

No one is advocating killing people. This is just the type of wild exaggeration I was talking about.

 

[MakeItTonite]

How is one supposed to have respect for those parties when they have continually shown no respect for their very own citizens that they are supposed to be in place to protect? I can't really blame many people at all having no respect for things like authority or the Government.

I was thinking more along the lines of free speech, personal liberty, and local authority such as the po-po, but yes, I do believe that for some Antifa the ultimate goal is to overthrow the government in order to implement their very own brand of socialism/communism/anarchy. Vegan ISIS indeed.

 

[MakeItTonite]

Actually there are some groups claiming the antifa label which have urged violence. that;s to be expected; the idiocy comes in when some on the right decide that those are the "real" antifa, just as some on the left decided that racists were the "real" Tea Party.

I don't think even "real" Antifa is as discerning as you are--comrades-in-arms and all that. I think the one thing that all the separate groups have in common is that they will resort to violence whether it's provoked or not. Please explain to me how you make the "real Antifa" distinction.