Anyone else label weary?

[justHuman]

Occasionally, in the Bi-sex/Coming Out section, especially when some are struggling with mixed feelings --uncertain if they are gay, bi or straight-- there have been a few responses urging them to set aside the labels. That’s something I’ve tried to do in my own life, and it's heartening to hear others say those words.

I don’t consider myself gay, bi or straight. I mostly just don’t care much for labels and the baggage they come with. When pressed, I’ll admit to being human. For me, sexual preference doesn’t rely on what someone has between their legs, but on what they have within their heart. I don’t “prefer” to have sex with either men or women, but with people I love. And it’s this deep, shared, soul-connecting love that drives my attraction.

A few gay friends understand me, but others are quick to go on the attack. To them, I’m hopelessly “in denial.” However, it is neither feelings nor love that I deny, but only the inadequate labels. I have nothing against those who consider themselves gay, bi or straight. I just wish people would be open enough to understand that there can be other things driving attraction besides gender.

I was just wondering if there were others of like mind in this forum. Thanks.

 

[SilverWolf]

Occasionally, in the Bi-sex/Coming Out section, especially when some are struggling with mixed feelings --uncertain if they are gay, bi or straight-- there have been a few responses urging them to set aside the labels. That’s something I’ve tried to do in my own life, and it's heartening to hear others say those words.

I don’t consider myself gay, bi or straight. I mostly just don’t care much for labels and the baggage they come with. When pressed, I’ll admit to being human. For me, sexual preference doesn’t rely on what someone has between their legs, but on what they have within their heart. I don’t “prefer” to have sex with either men or women, but with people I love. And it’s this deep, shared, soul-connecting love that drives my attraction.

A few gay friends understand me, but others are quick to go on the attack. To them, I’m hopelessly “in denial.” However, it is neither feelings nor love that I deny, but only the inadequate labels. I have nothing against those who consider themselves gay, bi or straight. I just wish people would be open enough to understand that there can be other things driving attraction besides gender.

I was just wondering if there were others of like mind in this forum. Thanks.

I think this is a wonderful way of looking at things

 

[TX-Beau]

Alrighty. Straight people never ever ever say:

“I prefer the opposite sex, but I don’t like to label myself.”

You, like all of us label yourself in a thousand different ways you have no problem with, so what is the issue with labels applied to sexuality?

You don't say:

"I may be a man, but really I don't like to label myself."

Why is that do you think? Why is it that only gay people play this little game?

Your whole life is mired in labels, your whole life you will label yourself and get labeled by others; language itself is just one huge exercise in labels. Labels are so fundamental to how we interact with each other we all have one we cling to all of our lives, our names. You can’t get away from labels, they’re everywhere, in every part of your life, in everyone you meet, and anything you do.

So let’s not pretend that the "not labeling" game is about the labels. It’s about the specific ones gay/bi men don’t want to be associated with; because they haven’t gotten to the point yet where thy realize there’s nothing wrong, or derogatory about calling yourself, or indeed having other people call you gay.

The issue is not the label, the issue is not labeling, the issue about discomfort with what the label reveals about us. The issue is our discomfort with ourselves.

Take heart, the longer you’re out, the less you care about “not labeling” yourself; and if you're not out, and you never come out, that has a label too.

 

[SilverWolf]

Alrighty. Straight people never ever ever say:

“I prefer the opposite sex, but I don’t like to label myself.”

You, like all of us label yourself in a thousand different ways you have no problem with, so what is the issue with labels applied to sexuality?

You don't say:

"I may be a man, but really I don't like to label myself."

Why is that do you think? Why is it that only gay people play this little game?

Your whole life is mired in labels, your whole life you will label yourself and get labeled by others; language itself is just one huge exercise in labels. Labels are so fundamental to how we interact with each other we all have one we cling to all of our lives, our names. You can’t get away from labels, they’re everywhere, in every part of your life, in everyone you meet, and anything you do.

So let’s not pretend that the "not labeling" game is about the labels. It’s about the specific ones gay/bi men don’t want to be associated with; because they haven’t gotten to the point yet where thy realize there’s nothing wrong, or derogatory about calling yourself, or indeed having other people call you gay.

The issue is not the label, the issue is not labeling, the issue about discomfort with what the label reveals about us. The issue is our discomfort with ourselves.

Take heart, the longer you’re out, the less you care about “not labeling” yourself.

I'm out and to me labels, to me, more restrict you than anything else or at least require explaining to some. If I say I'm bisexual, people usually assume that I'm more interested in girls but that's not the case. So I say I'm more interested in guys. Then people ask if I'm gay which I say no. I'm not really gay since I want to fuck a girl. If I say a girl looks hot, people start thinking I'm straight, which I'm not since I like to suck dick and be fucked and kiss guys.

So to me, saying your bi is like saying saying I'm only gay/straight under conditions when I am both at the same time. Saying your gay is like saying you can't find girls attractive without people thinking your really bi/straight.

So, I'm thinking of just saying when asked who I like, I fuck anything on two legs that's at least 18.

 

[justHuman]

Alrighty. Straight people never ever ever say:

“I prefer the opposite sex, but I don’t like to label myself.”

About the only time I hear people say that they're straight is when they're asked if they are gay, otherwise they don't seem to use that label very much. I don't think it's front and center in their mind.

And sure, language is all labels, but that doesn't mean that all the words are used accurately or that they adequately describe all the subtle differences in the world. I'm not just avoiding the gay label, I don't call myself bi or straight either. I just feel that to take on a label that doesn't quite fit would be misleading to both myself and to others.

Thanks for your response.

 

[G-Lexington]

I'm with TX on this, although SW's got some good points about the bisexual tag.

The gay label means you dig guys. That's it. Yeah, there's some baggage that comes along with it, but so what? If somebody wants to think I'm girl-y/bitchy/femmy/gossip-y/your-stereotype-here because I'm gay, I don't have any issue with that. It doesn't make me (or NOT make me) any of those things.

I'm from Colorado. That makes me a Coloradoan. And there's baggage along with that label, too. Much of it involves skiing, John Denver and the Broncos. Three things, as it turns out, I have little or no interest in. But I don't get on people's case for calling me a Coloradoan. I don't say "Why do you feel the need to label me?" Because I KNOW why they label me - it's because we're human, and we like to organize and classify things. People are gonna assume things about me because of my classifications - some accurate, some not. Big deal.

The bisexual tag, as SW points out, has its own set of baggage, and it seems to be more complex (and heavy) than its gay counterpart. I've oft maintained that bisexuals have it tough, because whether they settle down with the same sex, the opposite sex, or never settle down at all, they seem to get shit for it especially from their gay brethren. ("He wasn't bi. He was gay and too chickenshit to admit it", "You can't trust a bi- guy - he'll always get pressured into going straight and leave you in the lurch", and "bisexuals are too cross-wired to ever settle down" respectively.) I think the main problem there is ignorance. The gay label had a lot heavier baggage fifty, twenty, even ten years back. But as more and more people got to know more and more gays, the stereotypes and assumptions have eased quite a bit. I'm thinking as more and more bisexuals become well-known, that will happen with them, as well.

Lex

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>About the only time I hear people say that they're straight is when they're asked if they are gay, otherwise they don't seem to use that label very much. I don't think it's front and center in their mind.

They don't have to. "Straight" is almost always the default setting for people we meet. When 80% or more of the population is a certain way, there's no reason to have to feel the need to let the world know. For instance, not that many Americans are vegetarians. I'm not one. But I've not ever felt the need to call myself a meat eater. Not because I'm not one, or I'm afraid of the term, or afraid of the baggage. But because most people assume I AM one.

Lex

 

[justHuman]

"Straight" is almost always the default setting for people we meet. When 80% or more of the population is a certain way, there's no reason to have to feel the need to let the world know.

Lex

I get what you're saying, but my comments are directed even more toward that 80+% of the population you cite. They're the ones that first separated us out as different. They're the ones that defined the label. By ignoring the label, I'm just saying to that majority: "I'm no different than you -- I love people just like you love people. What else matters?"

 

[justHuman]

Thanks for your comments SilverWolf. I agree, life and relationships are often too complex and changing to be summed up with a single word.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

I will agree that there is a minority of individuals so sexually ambiguous as to defy conventional gay, straight, bi labels. But for most of us, the social contract requires a declaration of some some sort. We need to know who and what we're dealing with. I wouldn't be looking for a long-term relationship with a man who says he's not gay or bi, but that he's somehow and mysteriously "beyond sex?" No thanks. Don't believe it.

Without social labels and badges, what we have is a confusing landscape of wishy-washiness.

And I'm not sure I buy the "I'm sexually attracted to people I love" sentiment, because sexual interest usually begins long before you know the person well enough to be in love with them.

I just don't believe the mechanics of sexual attraction work that way for anyone with red blood. And most sexual people are initially visually stimulated by something. And I would hope that that something is male or female. Oherwise we have a ball of confusion, and I'm not going there.

"I don’t “prefer” to have sex with either men or women, but with people I love."

Unless you have zero testosterone and no internal, attendant, biological wiring, I just don't buy that transcendant statement. Ain't no person on planet earth evolved to the post-human stage yet.

 

[youngnihilist]

TX said it right. we're all about labels. it just sounds a bit like a cop out to say "I don't do labels" because people who say that label themselves in every other way (gender, race, class, location, nationality, job, etc

 

[maxpowr9]

I get what you're saying, but my comments are directed even more toward that 80+% of the population you cite. They're the ones that first separated us out as different. They're the ones that defined the label. By ignoring the label, I'm just saying to that majority: "I'm no different than you -- I love people just like you love people. What else matters?"

I think the point that a lot of people are stabbing at and you are not comprehending here is that we all unique people. We all belong to several different catagories or "labels". Many of these catagories have subsets. Some of these "labels" will have a large population while others can consist of just a few people. However, it is the composition of all the groups that we belong to that make us unique individuals.

For example: being "American" is a 'label' just as much as being "gay" or "Jewish" or even "blonde".

Each 'label' has preconceived or "sterotypical" notions about them. However, as you delve deeper into each of the subsets, you learn more about the individual instead of the archetypal catagory.

Now, if this topic is about 'questioning your sexuality' we can talk about that. However, fretting over a label is just nonsense.

 

[SilverWolf]

TX said it right. we're all about labels. it just sounds a bit like a cop out to say "I don't do labels" because people who say that label themselves in every other way (gender, race, class, location, nationality, job, etc

What do you call some one who is half white half black? What do you call someone who was born with male and female genitals? What do you call someone who has dual citizenship in America and Canada? Labels are good and necessary for most things but a few people just don't really fit labels. And with something as complex as sexuality, I'm there are some people who probably aren't really describe sexually

 

[josher]

^^

A) In former days: mulatto. Now: mixed race.

B) A hermaphrodite.

C) A dual citizen.

 

[SilverWolf]

^^

A) In former days: mulatto. Now: mixed race.

B) A hermaphrodite.

C) A dual citizen.

A) Many people will consider you one more than the other

B) You can decide to live as a male or female and some people will consider you that or consider you a hermaphrodite still

C) People will say your either American or Canadian, just enjoying the other country's benefits

In these cases, labels don't really fit you because others will say you don't qualify enough or your one or the other not both. Of course the only thing that matters is what you decide to call yourself, but if your a hermaphrodite and decide to live as a female, you can call yourself a female, even though your not the text book definition of a female

 

[SilverWolf]

What do you call some one who is half white half black? What do you call someone who was born with male and female genitals? What do you call someone who has dual citizenship in America and Canada? Labels are good and necessary for most things but a few people just don't really fit labels. And with something as complex as sexuality, I'm there are some people who probably aren't really describe sexually

Should be described sexually by labels

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>They're the ones that first separated us out as different. They're the ones that defined the label. By ignoring the label, I'm just saying to that majority: "I'm no different than you -- I love people just like you love people. What else matters?"

News flash - we ARE different. Unlike the majority of people on this planet, we're sexually attracted to people of the same gender. This makes us different. It doesn't make us inferior, or fucked up, or anything else, but it does make us different in that specific way. As I said, baggage can be added on to the label - whether it's "gays are femmy" or "gays shouldn't be allowed to marry" - but that's stuff that's added on later. It doesn't change that we are what we are.

And I feel such a label IS important. If for no other reason than because I'm interested in having sex with guys - specifically, with guys who might also be interested in having sex with me. And so if I'm interested in a boyfriend or a sex partner, it'd be nice to know what the available pool is. If I can identify the straight guys, I can remove that section, and cut my workload down about 95%. But if everyone answered with "I don't believe in labels", I'd be stuck making moves on everybody until they turned me down. And frankly, I don't want to work that hard.

There are other (and better) reasons to not fear the label, too. As I said, the stereotypes aren't holding sway as hard as they used to. And this is mainly due to straights being exposed to more homosexuals, of ALL stripes. Each time a gay man comes out, it makes gay more "normal". And each time a gay man comes out that doesn't fit the stereotypes, but doesn't fear being labeled "gay", it pulls the word "gay" away from the stereotypes. It solidifies the definition ("he likes guys") while freeing it from the baggage.

As I said in an earlier post, there are still some people out there who think I'm (your favorite stereotype here) because I'm gay. Mainly people who don't know me at all, or only know me from a great distance. And why the hell should I care what these people think of me? I'm not going to avoid being called "gay" because that person who lives five doors down thinks it means I fuck a new guy every night, or because that person on the bus thinks it means I wear high heels and gossip a lot. I don't like changing my behavior for my FRIENDS - I sure as hell am not going to do it for strangers and near-strangers.

Lex

 

[TX-Beau]

You know, I understand, the frustration, the anger, the unfairness, and the wish that it was all someone else's problem. I've been there, I've lived it. I sympathize.

But there comes a point where we have to decide. We have to make a choice. We can decide - and certainly many men have; to run away from the problem, to hide, to run away from the label, to run away from ourselves. That is a choice you can make.

But calling myself beyond labels doesn't make me less gay, it doesn't make the problem go away, it doesn't stop the world from calling me gay.

So in the end I decided that it was my life, my terms, my choice, and I'm a gay man, and if people don't like that they can go fuck themselves.

I'll take that label and make it my own, with my life, my terms, and my choice.

Every time someone makes that decision, life for all of us gets just a little bit easier - and you know, at some point, we all of us owe the progress made to the guys who assumed the label in a social climate in which the label was far more incendiary than ours.

We owe our better, easier, circumstances to people who embraced the labels, not to people who ran around calling themselves label free.

 

[Lube]

Yeah, I gotta agree with most of the posters in this thread: saying you're beyond labels is a total cop-out.

We're not trying to be mean. We've been where you are! We know how horrible it is at first (well, all of us but those in the most liberal environments).

Yes, of course labels aren't 100% accurate. They never are. Even if you're Jewish or hispanic or caucasian, you're almost never 100% of that.

And to say that you love people and not just sex: well, that makes it sound like gays will fuck anything that's male, straights will fuck anything that's female, and bi's will fuck anything that's human. And that's just not true (well, not most of the time). Gays, straights, and bi's have preferences and emotions and feel love only for specific people, too.

So your argument falls apart on pretty much every level. Sorry.

 

[Telstra]

Occasionally, in the Bi-sex/Coming Out section, especially when some are struggling with mixed feelings --uncertain if they are gay, bi or straight-- there have been a few responses urging them to set aside the labels. That’s something I’ve tried to do in my own life, and it's heartening to hear others say those words.

I don’t consider myself gay, bi or straight. I mostly just don’t care much for labels and the baggage they come with. When pressed, I’ll admit to being human. For me, sexual preference doesn’t rely on what someone has between their legs, but on what they have within their heart. I don’t “prefer” to have sex with either men or women, but with people I love. And it’s this deep, shared, soul-connecting love that drives my attraction.

A few gay friends understand me, but others are quick to go on the attack. To them, I’m hopelessly “in denial.” However, it is neither feelings nor love that I deny, but only the inadequate labels. I have nothing against those who consider themselves gay, bi or straight. I just wish people would be open enough to understand that there can be other things driving attraction besides gender.

I was just wondering if there were others of like mind in this forum. Thanks.

online chat, telling people what you like is important. If telling people you are:
gay = like men only
bi = like men and women
straight = like women only
not telling = what are you ?

so you have to say what you like: men only or men/women.