Apathy

[plaster-saint]

looking for some advice..
I'm 23, and have been mostly out since high school. I have no religious beliefs, but I still have that self-loathing that's typical of people who try to repress their homosexual desires. I don't try to repress anything--I know it's there, and I just don't like it. I've never been in a significant romantic relationship because I actively avoid them.

I think I like hooking up with guys (although I usually can't bring myself to do it when I'm completely sober), but there are a lot of things that are really gross to me. And no matter what happens, I have to take a shower immediately afterward. It just all feels so wrong. I feel morally debased after hooking up with men, so I rarely do. In the past there have been points where I haven't done it for almost a year.

I once alluded to this negative feeling in a discussion with one of my few gay friends. He said it's normal, it passes, I just need to hook up with more guys, etc.. but I don't think that's it. I think I may be simply incapable of physical intimacy with anyone. I don't even like hugging anyone--not even my parents.

I would love to be in a meaningful relationship with someone. I just feel like I've always had this handicap, which makes me nervous, anxious, and awkward, and on every (rare) occasion when I've hooked up with someone new, I've had to give some reason why I have the sexual experience of a sixteen year-old. Having had primarily straight friends my whole life and never having been able to fit in with most gay people, I've generally ignored my sexuality and sex life for years. Compounding the problem is that I live an unusual life in a way that is not immediately apparent, so when people get to know me, they tend to feel uncomfortable and insecure.

It just dawned on me that I don't know where I'm going with this. But I do know that I've lost nearly all motivation in life, which I attribute to the fact that I never want to grow up and be a gay man (I realize there are "grown up" people my age with a kid in first grade, but mentally, the gay part of me is still a child). I don't actually do anything besides eat, sleep, and read all day, and occasionally go out to avoid suspicion. I live alone, which I should've realized was a bad idea back when I wanted to do something with my life, but it's nevertheless made it very convenient to do nothing. Years ago I was suicidal, but I can't put people through that, so I won't do it. I have this secret desire to fall victim to accidental death--maybe get hit by a bus or something. Regarding the people I know, everyone has to deal with death, but suicide would be infinitely more difficult.

I'm afraid that if I continue on this course, I may drive myself to become suicidal, if I convince myself that my pain is greater than would be that of my family and others. One can only be so bored. I just feel trapped in life--I don't want to do anything. My consciousness is my mortal enemy. I constantly seek diversions that are mind consuming, like video games, but for the most part I just read. I'm only writing this because I'm stuck in this seemingly infinite liminal period of my existence, in a way that I don't foresee there ever being enough external pressure to force me to do something about it. I have enough trouble talking to people I know about my apathy, let alone spilling my guts to some stranger for four or five dollars per minute.

On two occasions when I was younger, I thought a failed suicide attempt would trigger events beyond my control that would place me in either intensive or inpatient care, and finally fix my problems. Instead, when confronted about the pills or cuts, I got scared of the prospect of actually dealing with my problems, and masterfully lied my way out of everything. No follow-up treatment, nothing. Either I'm just very good at reading people and knowing what they want to hear, or no one actually cares if I die- as long as they can claim it wasn't on their watch. Isolation does strange things to one's psyche--perhaps one day I'll convince myself of the latter cause, and lose the only barrier keeping me here.

I think the bottom line is that I am alone. I'm sorry that this whole thing has been so fuckin' dark. If people I know were to read this, jaws would drop. I've been living a lie for so long that I don't know who I am. Everything I do is for show, because I'm so afraid of people knowing how I really feel. I'm not some head-case.. I'm just tired of being so different. All I hear is "you're the ___-est person I've ever met," so I don't like getting to know new people. I just want to be normal, and be treated like everyone else. I never really connect with anyone, and my best friends are just people I consider really cool, but not those with whom I have much in common. People like that don't exist.

This is five times as long as I meant for it to be. And now I don't even know why I wrote it, because the most obvious responses are "you're too young to discount your potential" or "you just need to get out there and meet people, it takes time for everyone." Maybe I just wrote it to engender some lively discussion. This post is the most outgoing thing I've ever done regarding this facet of my life, so don't expect me to see a psychiatrist or call some hotline. As my privacy is my most valued asset, I'm having trouble convincing myself that the above "confession" is not an act of desperation (as anonymous as it hopefully is). I guess I'll see how this one plays out.

I can't believe I'm posting this on a website that has advertisements with penises on it! HAHA. A web search brought me here, but after reading a few posts I realized there are a number of genuinely compassionate people posting on this site. I'm usually very critical of my writing, so I'll just post this as is.. I don't want to go over it. I hope it's not too long or depressing or vague, but I'm very interested in hearing any comments. Also, I think I've somewhat deliberately avoided going into specifics on certain points, so feel free to ask for any clarification. thanks.

 

[kallipolis]

In our periods of apathetic reactions to our life we can also recognise our willingness to create change in the way we live our life. It is within the thinking value of a human being to occasionally ponder his or her sense of direction. Appearing lost in our thoughts is merely our life asking us to take a breather and contemplate what we are doing, and where we are going.

Our occasional bouts of apathy can be considered as a rewarding experience for those who are prepared to heed the lessons that apathy asks us to learn, through making the necessary changes in our life in order to vanquish additional thought that apathy is more than a teacher for our present and future well being.

The next stage introduces us to the dilemma of making the decision to change our way of living. Putting out into the deep and taking risks in order to improve our life, is predictably the only way to create the results that our innermost person is asking us to make. Bon chance, mon ami.

 

[BoSoxFanVa]

I was really moved by your post and I think it's brave to share your feelings with such honesty.

Several red flags in your post got my attention. The most serious is the talk of suicide and death. This is the number one sign of clinical depression. Coupled with the apathy you describe, you are treading with danger.

Many of my friends here on JUB know that I suffer from depression and had my bouts with life and death decisions. Five years ago, I finally hit rock bottom and help got to me. My depression was mixed with apathy and that's a hard combination to overcome. You can't do it alone. You need professional help.

I urge you to seek help from a psychiatrist and a therapist. You need to fight this disease on two fronts. One is medically. There are wonderful new drugs out there to fight depression and they really work. You need to be aggressive in your treatment plan and being honest with the doctor is the first step. Another way to fight this disease is with therapy. Talk therapy, in combination with medicine, can treat this disease. It's a medical fact.

For the longest time, I thought my gayness was the reason for my depression. I was unhappy about the prospects of my future as a gay man and I hated myself. With the help of a therapist, I was finally able to separate the gay issues from the depression issues. When I stopped and worked on getting my depression under control, I was better equipped to tackle the gay issues that were holding me back.
I'm still a work in progress, but I'm understanding more about myself and coming to terms with who I really am.

I hope you dig down deep and seek help. Time is a factor. Depression has a way of stealing years from your young life. Remember, you will never get this time back again. Do something to save yourself. Seek help.

My hope for you is some relief from your troubles. Please keep us updated.

 

[plaster-saint]

My first post was way too long, and probably not very coherent. But bosoxfan, you're right--depression can steal years from your life. I've been dealing with this for as long as I've been out, but haven't made any real progress. I did see a psychiatrist for a while, but my experience taking medication for anxiety was such that I'm extremely reluctant to take any drugs again. I've thought about finding a new psychiatrist where I live now, but I live in a city that seems to have thousands of them. I don't even know where to begin looking. And I know that it would take months for me to get to a point where I would feel comfortable talking to such a person about my true feelings. I think my main problem with any form of therapy is that if I'm happy I don't want to think or talk about what's wrong, and if I'm not, I don't have the motivation to do something about it. Sometimes I just get stuck in a rut.

I'm afraid to get involved in any significant way with the people I've met since I moved here, primarily because I never want them to see this dark side of me--but I'm destroying my social life because of this fear. It's just a major downward spiral, and at this point I don't care enough to get myself out of it.

I guess that's all I can think of to add right now.

 

[jockboy01]

Wow, what a moving post. I'm going to leave a brief comment (which I feel bad about b/c there is SO much of your story that I totally relate to, but I'm extremely pressed for time in life right now... but short for me tends to be kind of long). And then I'm moving it to the coming out forum as I think it fits better there b/c to me it seems like your depression is a direct result of your sexuality. I would still advise a psychiatrist and yes, it would take time to get comfortable, but would you rather still feel this way in six months or start to feel better.

It seems to me, that while you say you are out, you mean that in an external sense. It seems to me that you do not fully accept who you are as a gay man. To me, this is more important than telling others that you are gay. And in my experience, people who come out to others before accepting it themselves can have a more difficult time than those of us who remain closeted until we've come to terms with who we are.

I think the hooking up with guys suggestion of your friend is COMPLETELY off base and is only going to make things worse. It makes you associate being gay with meaningless sex which makes you further hate who you are. It truly is counterproductive... I tried for a short time and had the same experience (showering after, feeling really bad about myself and ashamed, etc).

And I totally understand the secretly wishing for an accident to take your life. I lived like that for years. Because, as you said, I couldn't take my own (although I thought about it many times).

When I finally started to accept me for me and see that hookups were not what it was to be gay, I started to make progress. This all occurred over the last year. But I wasn't out until I was okay with being gay.

I think all people want to be loved and accepted by others. It is part of human nature. And there is nothing abnormal about that.

And lastly, if you don't seek advice from a qualified professional, I'd suggest forcing yourself to do social activities... even if you don't want to. Like you, I would be happy holed up in my apt all the time I'm not at work. But like tonight, when a friend called and wanted to go to a movie... I said yes, even though it doesn't sound great. It's been over a week since I've done anything social and I know it will be good for my psyche. So force yourself to do stuff.... even though I know it is hard. It'll be good for you in the long term.

And I'll try and check in and write more when there is more time. Take care and know that you are always welcome to post here on JUB. And the porn images eventually become background noise I've found.

 

[Thatguyouknow]

Plaster-Saint, Jockboy hit it on the head pretty well. I don't think i could offer you any advice more meaningful than his, mostly because his is great, but also because i kinda think i'm headed down a (kind of)similar path as you..

I also wanted to add that i liked your way of typing, the flow of thought really comes through it. I thought everything was very coherent.



I hope things start to look better for you... Take care.

 

[plaster-saint]

I've thought about the last few posts a lot, and I agree with everything you guys have said. And I couldn't stop laughing about the porn becoming "background noise."

The reason I was out in high school was because of depression. My best friend was very concerned for me, and convinced me that I had to tell my parents about my sexuality. He felt obligated to tell them I was depressed, since it was pretty bad, but I couldn't bring myself to tell them the truth. I made up all sorts of other things but they weren't convinced. Finally I asked my friend to tell my mom on the phone--I knew I couldn't do it myself. She took it very well, and told my dad. It was over seven years ago but seems like yesterday.. I remember he sat alone and watched tv for a while, and my mom said he needed time to think about it. Eventually he came up to my room and told me that he was ok with it, and said things like "I didn't really mean anything bad with any gay jokes I've ever made." It wasn't an ideal situation, and I felt like they were trying to be accomodating because I was depressed and they just wanted to help. It didn't seem genuine.

That was the last time I ever had any conversation with my dad about sexuality. Sometimes my mom will ask me how things are, but I usually feel awkward and change the subject. A couple years ago she said "have you ever had sex with a man?" and all I could do was laugh. I'm very close with my parents but we never talk about anything gay. Since then I've tried to find older people to talk to, but I don't really know anyone who is gay. My mom's best friend from high school is gay, and they don't really keep in touch, but I've always thought about sending him an email--he's a college professor so I know exactly how to find him.

I also had a professor in college whom I spoke with a few times. I was sure he was gay, and everyone thought so, but I actually asked him. He said it was the first time a student had asked him that, so I felt terrible. I got the impression that I was looking in the wrong place for a role model. Part of the reason I'm reluctant to talk to a psychiatrist about this is that they get paid, so I have trouble seeing any advice as objective, and because any gay psychiatrist would be more likely to tell me why it's ok, when others might hold different views.

I didn't mention before that I have a very conservative extended family. They all live in the midwest, and have probably had a larger influence on me than I'd like to admit. I can't even imagine how they would deal with finding out about me... I have a distant cousin (whom I've never met) who is a lesbian, and the way they talk about her sickens me. I've never heard anything positive about her, and she sounds like a self-centered mean person. I don't know whether this is true or they just say this because they don't approve of her sexuality, but I also don't think I'll ever be out and comfortable with it unless my whole family knows. I can't bear the thought of telling them.

A lot of people might say that I shouldn't have to deal with people who think I'm going to hell because I don't think Jesus died for my sins, let alone those who think homosexuals are an abomination and the scum of the earth. But they will always be my family, and I really care about them. If they knew about my sexuality, I know they wouldn't condemn me as much as they would feel pity and try to 'fix' my wicked ways. My whole life they've tried to 'save' me, but I think they would redouble their efforts if I told them I'm attracted to men. To them, it's a mental disorder that stems from a lack of faith, so I think they would tell themselves I am following this path because I'm not a believer like they are. I know they would never stop at trying to change me, and I think it would destroy my relationship with them. Being a nonbeliever is more of a passive state, but being a homosexual is actively disobeying god, in their eyes.

So regarding being gay, my relationship with my parents is ok, and that with my relatives is a potential disaster, which leaves me with my friends. Almost all of them are straight guys, and very few ever ask any details about my gay life. Sometimes I'll bring something up, but they usually don't seem interested in hearing about it. I can't say I take much interest in their straight sex lives, so it could be that we just don't have that in common. My gay friends are all pretty well-adjusted and some seem obsessive about sex, so I don't have much in common with them either.

I guess this is why I'm stuck. I don't know where to start, although my relatives are definitely my last priority. I'm not sure if I should try to talk to my parents again before I'm more comfortable with my sexuality. The fact that I don't want to talk about this with friends or a psychiatrist is probably the reason I came here. It's only been a couple days and I've said more than I ever told my last psychiatrist. Anonymity definitely seems to help.

Also, Proud Boy, you said that there are gay men who don't like to do certain things. I always assumed that only 'beginners' were like that. Do you think there are well-adjusted, perfectly normal gay men who are not interested in performing oral sex, for example? Another problem I have had with coming to terms with homosexuality is that I feel like I should like hooking up with guys a lot more than I actually do. If I'm sober I usually feel nervous and am not very interested, but I'm afraid that if I hook up when I'm drunk I'll do things I might regret later. I think I attach undue emotional weight to any sexual activity... I wish I could just relax and enjoy it, and not dwell on it. Jockboy, you said you think it's a bad idea to just hook up more. That seemed to work well in the past for my friend who suggested it, but do you think it's just different for everyone? My friend seems perfectly capable of having fun but meaningless sex, which I could never do. Come to think of it, it seems like every gay guy I know is like that. Maybe I just don't know enough gay guys. Oh yeah, do I get a prize for longest first post? Time to wrap up the sequel.

 

[tallguy297]

G'day plaster-saint,

Mate...thank you for sharing your thought and your fears with us...that takes a lot of courage and strength. You're a very articulate and passionate guy...your posts are so honest and open...these are all good things...be proud of them mate!

You are loved. You are worth something. People do care and of course you would be missed if you werent around. You are a real valuable heartfelt individual with real feelings and emotions, you have a capacity to love and give. And yeah you have the capacity to feel hurt and pain. But those things are part of being a human being. Just like you.

So many of us have been where you are...all to varying degrees...but the thing you have to realise here is that you are not the first person to feel this way nor are you facing these issues alone. Most of us have struggled at varying times with our sexuality and our self worth. We have all worried about our happiness...and our own lack of ability to have a meaningful relationship.

We tend to become all consumed about our own limitations that we lose the ability to be rational. You asked about gay men only liking some acts ie...not liking oral, only liking anal etc....friend...have a look at peoples profiles right here on JUB and see what their favorite activity is...all are different. All are individual...like you. How many wives hate blowing their husbands?????

What you like or dislike is entirely up to you. It doesnt make you wrong in any way...not one bit. It makes you you. No one else loves like you, thinks like you, feels like you or looks like you. Your sex life, experiences, preferences and pleasures are the same...yours. Dont ever feel bad about what you like or dislike or even know or dont know about any aspect of your acceptance of yourself.

This like any other part of life is a journey. Its a bugger that we arent given the manual on how to be gay when we decide to come out, but i guess its like parenthood in a way. For some of us we are thrown in the deep end and its a case of either sink or swim. But to think that you'll be Ian Thorpe or Michael Phelps the minute you stick your toe in is being way too hard on yourself.

Mate...you have only started this journey. I know that you have been out to some for a while, but in reality you are still at a stage that can take some time to work through..and thats fine...we all do this differently. You need to let yourself become open to the possibility of being gay...and happy. It took me 18 months of sheer turmoil before I even considered the thought after coming out. I was going to abstain from any form of contact emotional or otherwise for the rest of my life because I didnt think I was right or deserving of that because i was gay. I didnt see the point in trying because there was no reason to.

But slowly if you one tiny step at a time allow yourself to see the real you - the loving caring giving honest loyal guy that you are... you will come too see that you are worth happiness and love. To deny yourself and others the chance to see the real you, the talents and potentials that you have would be such a waste.

I admire you for posting. Its the start of letting yourself be free of the darkness. You are here amongst friends and support. When you see that you are travelling down a well worn path trodden by many before you and there will be as many following, you will see that you do have worth and value. You are a normal gay guy mate...just working your way through life. Figuring out the good and the bads. The things you like and dislike.

You know your own values and morals...like the fact that one night stands arent for you. And thats fantastic. You already know what feels right in some ways and not others. Dont feel like you are the only one who doesnt sleep around ...you are not. So many gay guys are simply looking for a loving carring monogamous relationship. A partner with whom they can be themselves completely. We just all do it and look for it in our own individual ways....like you.

Just take one step at a time plaster. Ask as many questions as you want. Post everytime you get the urge. You are not alone. You are not the first to fight this battle and win. You are just simply one of us on the road to self discovery.

Welcome aboard.

And you were worried about long posts....

 

[JackFTwist]

Friend,

I think the counseling is a great thing to do. You had not a great exprience with one psychiatrist and drugs - ok, that's cool, not every shrink is the right one to have a rapport with and I am very waryt of all the drugs. But a great therapist or counselor for you is out there to have someone to talk all these things through with.

In meantime you have a lot of friends here.

And it is perfectly ok to be gay.

I will be happy when the "plaster" comes off your name.

 

[jockboy01]

So did the professor at your college ever answer the question?

As to the hooking up more working for your friends.... definitely it is different for everybody. I have a GREAT friend who is all about the hookups. He loves it and even ditched a possible relationship b/c he just wanted to hookup. He has no emotional hang ups at all over it. I on the other hand... well, it's just not me. And I've been fortunate enough to find a number of gay guys who feel the same way I do. So they're out there, you just haven't seen them yet. But definitely people have different views on this.

Similarly, different people like different things sexually... so anything is possible there as well.

As to the family... I wouldn't worry about them yet. All in due time. And it doesn't seem to me that talking to your parents is the best way to work through things. I find it much easier to talk to people who are very comfortable with gays when you're first becoming comfortable yourself. Only after you're comfortable with who you are should you start confronting those who won't be as supportive of it b/c then you know who you are and are okay with it. And only then can you develop more of the "if they don't like it... too bad" attitude that people talk about.

As to the religion aspect of being gay.... I can fairly confidently and articulately argue that being gay not only isn't an abomination, but is actually something that God approves of. I don't always change everybody's mind, but I definitely have given my share of religious folks something to chew on.

As to who to talk to... I agree that a psychiatrist is very individualized and the right one would be wonderful. That said, I've never had the guts to go myself even when I needed it. But I did stumble upon a very wise older gay gentlemen that was very helpful through everything. Maybe you should try calling up that college professor. At worst, it doesn't work and it's no big deal.

And of course, always welcome to post here. Your posts are so readable it is great. And length... haha, I still have so much I want to write.

 

[plaster-saint]

Yup, when I asked the professor he had no qualms about telling me that he's gay. I asked because the class had to do with sexuality, and I wondered why he didn't tell the class. He said it would be inappropriate and that people might think he was introducing some amount of bias--but I felt that if a straight professor had taught the class, he wouldn't have hesitated to say things like, "well I'm married and have kids and I think..."

It might just be my opinion, but in a situation like that I think the only way to have the least amount of bias is to be totally open about one's background. I think that if there were no stigma attached to being gay, then no professors would hesitate to mention their own orientation.

Regarding my experience with my last psychiatrist, the only problem I had was with anxiety medication. Other than that, I would prefer to be able to see the same person where I live now. I'm just hesitant to take those types of drugs. I'd like to be able to deal with the things I need to deal with in the most unaltered state possible. If I can come to terms with being gay while I'm taking happy pills, how do I know it's genuine? I do acknowledge the possibility that there is some chemical imbalance that makes me feel the way I feel, but psychopharmacology is such an inexact science that it's very hard for me to trust. If you look at the drugs prescribed thirty or forty years ago, and all of the weird side effects, and compare them with what's out now, it makes you wonder what real progress has been made. No one knows what these things really do or how they work.. it's so much trial and error that I don't want to be a guinea pig. All of the major drugs require a month or more to build up to the normal dose, after which it can be a year before you're aware of what effects it has on you. I'm just afraid to get involved in that process--the one time I did, I felt like a new person, but in more negative than positive ways.

 

[ludolfo]

HI Plaster-Saint......I am SO glad I happened to look at the other posts after I posted in another thread, and found this one. Like others here I am SO very moved by your wonderful openness, I find it really inspiring. And your insight. the latest post where you see through bio-psychiatry. GREAT!!!!! I am totally against it, though once people KNOW the falsness of the mental health movement, from THERE, if THEY choose to take medication, that is their own perogative. Anything else is uninformed consent. I realize that others here who back-up the bio-psychiatry model will shout me down about my views about this, and i most certainly don't want to derail ithis thread. So I will have just said my piece about it, which agrees with what your experience seems to be. I would also like to pm you too....

Regarding the general experience you are sharing here. Listening to you I am aware that you feel utterly isolated---your parents appear to have accepted you, yet there is a conspicuous taboo/silence about this huge part of your life........your extended familiy sound fundamentalist and you feel would pity you and want to save you from your 'sin'-------your straight friends don't really want to hear the deeper part of you, and your gay friends seem obsessed with sex, which you find you dont have anything in common with, because its precisely all that that makes you feel ashamed...? So I am wondering IF shame is central to all of how you feel?

You said in first post that you dont even really like hugging people? So I am guessing there wasn't/isn't that much physical contact in your familiy?

of course christianity's got a fukin lot to answer for. of all the belief systems that one has caused the most shame about sex, even for 'straights', never mind gay people

anyhow as i see it it is getting through this sense of shame that needs to be looked at. and admittedly these blocks can be fairly deep

in older traditions you would have gone to have orgiastic liberation----taken some psychoactive sacred plant and just let loose----thrown off the shackles of the rigidity which comes with social conditioning. NOW people say 'go see a shrink for some happy pills'------hmmmmmm. but like i say i would rather speak to you privately about that , and other things, as it ALWAYS causes controversy because its so accepted as the norm, and i dont want to take the discussion away from you, and onto biggin up psychiatry and big pharma drugs!

PLEASE know that here you both have anonymity AND friends, thats all i ask

 

[plaster-saint]

Hey man, I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm against those kinds of drugs. Yeah, I had a bad experience once, and I'm not interested in repeating that--but there are countless people out there who can't live without the drugs they take, and plenty more for whom such meds mean the difference between endless despair and the possibilty of happiness in life.

Personally, I'm unwilling to risk losing my sense of self in order to be happier. Yeah, there's something wrong in my head, but I haven't yet figured out whether the causes are external (i.e., being gay), or internal. This is probably the opposite of how most people would prefer to deal with such a situation, but my goal is to fix the external factors before I try any drugs. I don't think I could come to terms with myself if I considered my mind to be in an altered state.

These are just my thoughts. For the majority of people, this is probably not the ideal way to deal with such issues. I know quite a few people who credit their happiness to current or past use of such drugs. Maybe people I know have been unusually lucky in their collective lack of side effects, but for them, the end certainly justified the means.

As for the thing about shame, either you misread some of my words or I didn't express my thoughts very well. The problem I have with my religious relatives is only indirectly caused by their feelings towards homosexuality. I don't believe in or agree with the majority of what they say, but it doesn't affect me. The whole gay issue affects me so much because the thought of having to go through such a huge ordeal stresses me out. I hate encountering a problem to which there is no solution, so when I think about it, it definitely gets me down. They'll never understand.

I said that my gay friends are well-adjusted, and I mentioned that some seem obsessive about sex. Coming from me, that's not saying much, so I kinda meant it as a joke. To me, everyone is obsessed with sex. I should've elaborated on why I don't feel that I have much in common with them. It's not how they feel about sex or anything like that, but the fact that they are fine with being gay, and for the most part did not have major problems coming to terms with it.

I don't like hugging people because I don't understand why people like to do it. Everyone else in my family does it, and always has, but to me it's an emotionless form of physical contact. It's probably more that I don't enjoy it than dislike it, although sometimes it does feel awkward--especially those extended squeezing hugs that girls always seem to give.

The reason I feel isolated is that I rarely connect with people in a significant way. Whether I really am that much different from everyone I've ever known, or it's in my head that I am, is most likely impossible for me to tell--until, of course, I actually meet someone and have that connection.

I honestly don't know what my problem is with being gay. Maybe part of it is regret--regret that I haven't dealt with this already. It's been hanging over my head for so long that it messes with everything else in my life. In college I often thought, "who cares what grades I get? I'll never be happy anyway." A friend of mine "realized" he was gay last year, and recently said to me "I love being gay." I didn't know how to respond, but at that moment I really envied him. I have never in my life thought that I could feel that way, and I still don't think I ever will. I just wish I knew why.

 

[ludolfo]

Used to know this family and they were huggers. so, you'd go round and the woman would anser the door and arms out begins to hug you, etc. but i found it really all false. cause other body language could be SO cold

i trhink i am getting to understand you a bit more maybe. as you know it is difficult. i know what it feels like in-here, and i KNOW not many if any people ACTUALLY know what it can be like for me. noone can really ever know what anothers experience is like

but i sense from you that there IS this LONGING for some significant intimacy, especially with another male? but there is something in the way. just not clicking for you

and from what you said before keeps ringing back. how you CAN sort of open up for sex and whatever after a drink, but aafter feel ashamed. thats why i was wondering if shame was the core thing that is blocking you. cause shame is quite common. people who are bullied or feel outcasts, shame is prominent

when we cry, social conditioning usually makes us feel shamed, to be 'weak'---especailly males---talkin bout ones feelings too. lots os suicides amongst males is supposed to be that. shame about sharing deep feelings

i somethinmes wonder if maybe emotions are even deeper than SEX. cause some people , and in the gay community can use sex so coldly, and not really go near too much deep emotions

 

[jockboy01]

A friend of mine "realized" he was gay last year, and recently said to me "I love being gay." I didn't know how to respond, but at that moment I really envied him. I have never in my life thought that I could feel that way, and I still don't think I ever will. I just wish I knew why.

I'd say give it time. I used to think I would never feel that way and hating being gay. But with time, I got over it and now I can say that I actually do enjoy being gay. It'll happen.

I'm not getting into the depression meds here as it doesn't belong. But a therapist (a good one... which can be hard to find) may be the best thing for you.