Are suicidal thought really abnormal?

[peeonme]

There are times that I just really feel like cashing it all in, memories flood my mind and I literally hurt.
If it weren't such a permanent thing to do, it would by more tempting, just to get away from
the thoughts that follow me.
I tell myself to keep going, that most people get discouraged, that I need to "man up" and not be a wimp.
So, how common are thoughts of this nature?

 

[vidarr]

What you're really asking is, are you abnormal for having suicidal thoughts? I don't think so.

But it would seem like you are going through some sort of depression. Reaching out to others is the best way to fight this.
You may feel embarrassed to share this with people, or "less of a man" as you said.
Talk to someone who is not likely to dismiss this as "a phase" that will fade away on its own.

 

[kallipolis]

On Sundays I make it a regular habit to visit Piraeus Metro station, directly opposite the ferry boat port, and watch hundreds of refugees fleeing war in Syria, and Afghanistan disembark from the ships, cross the foot bridge, to continue their journey by train into the centre of Athens where they will sleep in parks, or squares depending on food, and water supplied by local charities then, for those with money to continue their voyage to destinations in Northern Europe. It's a hazardous trek just crossing the sea from Turkey, to Greece with many lives lost every month....but the refugees keep trying....knowing that they are escaping from hell yet, also understanding that their journey to safety also entails the possibility of losing their life, being imprisoned, starving to death.

Desperate people fleeing death, and destruction are for the most part propelled by hope, that their lives will improve....and for the majority their hopes will be realised, settling in a new land, and creating a new life having suffered they have grown stronger, and wiser.

 

[Buddyy]

Honestly I think it's strange that most people don't think of committing suicide...

Think about it, there's absolutely no reason not to do it. We are just existing here, for practically no reason, and have no idea how or why... Why not just skip to the end, and see what else there is (if anything at all). In my opinion there's really no point to continue living more than you want to, it's just something people feel like they have to keep doing.

I'm not saying people should kill themselves, I'm just saying I really see no reason not to kill yourself, and equally speaking, there is no reason to kill yourself either.

The only time I think someone shouldn't kill themselves is if they have children or a spouse, or some other responsibility like that. If you made the choice to accept the responsibility of other humans, then you are locked into that contract for life and should respect it, you made that choice after all.

If I had the option, I'd like to just skip to the end, because you're going to die anyway, why not sooner? But it's not legal in my country, and I'd advice against anyone doing it their-self (you mess up and you are virtually screwed for life).

 

[kallipolis]

Each day we rise from our bed life invites us to continue living, life's great adventure teaching us that joy, and misery are two sides of the same coin, freshly minted every day to mesmerize us with the prospect of having to solve another challenge, by rewarding us with wisdom woven from our adversities growing us into satisfied old men, content to have loved, and been loved in return.

Death has a way of reminding us that its invitation comes packaged with a guaranteed no return option.

 

[vidarr]

Honestly I think it's strange that most people don't think of committing suicide...

If your life had no meaning then couldn't you stretch that to include the people you are responsible for, such as children, family? To say your life has no meaning , you simply don't know that until you've lived it.

Nihilists never accomplished anything anyway..

 

[Buddyy]

There are times that I just really feel like cashing it all in, memories flood my mind and I literally hurt.
If it weren't such a permanent thing to do, it would by more tempting, just to get away from
the thoughts that follow me.
So, how common are thoughts of this nature?

Keep in mind, we are only talking about thoughts here, suicidal thoughts are completely normal, and are completely rational.

Look at our situation here... We exist, not knowing how or why, in this insanely vast universe that we don't even understand. It is completely insane and quite hard to believe (I still honestly don't believe it, even though I'm here)... The fact that some people don't think about suicide mind-boggles me.

However, wanting to act on these thoughts is a completely different subject entirely.

It sounds like you have fully acknowledged that suicide is a bad option. It is a permanent solution to temporary problems.

So, now you just have to figure out what these problems are, and find ways of fixing these temporary problems.



Vidarr has a nice profile pic, the song Fade to Black actually fits nicely with this subject.

If it wasn't for Metallica's lead singer James Hetfield's suicidal thoughts, we wouldn't have the amazing depression ballad that is Fade to Black. If he had acted on those thoughts, we still wouldn't have the amazing depression ballad that is Fade to Black.

This same thing can be said about so many other songs and forms of art. It could even be applied to all of humanity that exists right now... Think about it, if the first humans couldn't deal with it and just killed themselves, there would be no humanity, we wouldn't be here right now.

Depression and suicidal thoughts have fueled so much of our culture and our art, especially a lot of music, so many successful people have these thoughts.

You could always try to channel these feelings when you have them, and practice some form of art to express how you feel.

There are many temporary solutions people use besides art. Watch movies, play games, practice a hobby, find anything to do to help you out when you are feeling like this.

I tell myself to keep going, that most people get discouraged, that I need to "man up" and not be a wimp.

Everyone gets discouraged. Some people just get hit by it harder than others, it has nothing to do with gender, race, mental toughness, or age.

We don't even really know why it happens, we are still trying to figure that stuff out. People generally like to think that we know a lot, but we don't really know a lot about the brain.

We can fix broken bones, mend wounds, and fight off infections, but when it comes to the brain/behavior/emotions/feelings, we don't know much. The treatments/reasons are all still quite subjective.

Of course we have made huge leaps in those fields in the past few decades, but really a lot of what we are doing when it comes to this stuff is just inferring and "testing" out theories. Sometimes things work, sometimes not.

That's why mental hospitals still exist, and are completely separate from actual hospitals. If we could easily fix/cure mental problems, there would be no need to have completely separate facilities, that have cells and are designed to keep people in.

I'm sure we will probably get to a time when we know a lot more and can quickly and correctly "fix" people/mental problems, but we aren't there yet.

 

[Buddyy]

If your life had no meaning then couldn't you stretch that to include the people you are responsible for, such as children, family?

Yes, absolutely you could easily say that, however that is a risk (and it is important to acknowledge this risk).

What if your personal belief turns out to be wrong? It's highly possible we are all wrong, when it comes to philosophy there really are no definitive answers, and you have to take every possibility into account, and unfortunately the possibilities are practically endless. (Technically, there obviously has to be a definitive answer, but I mean there's probably no possible way we could ever imagine what it actually is.)

Regardless, By taking on other people as responsibilities, you should additionally take into account what their own opinions on the subject might be, and respect those opinions; chances are they probably don't share the same one.

To say your life has no meaning , you simply don't know that until you've lived it.

This is technically a fair statement, the only problem is it's littered with subjectivity, (but really, what isn't?)

Look at it from this angle, even if life did have a clear cut meaning, and we knew everything there was to know, you could still choose to simply disregard this information, and still personally believe everything is meaningless, including whatever the meaning of life officially is. That's the main reason why the whole "meaning of life" thing is really not a solution at all, it is simply an excuse/scapegoat.

The Superbowl Championship Game is extremely meaningful to a lot of people, but to you personally, it could be completely meaningless. This same exact concept could be applied to anything, including the meaning of life, if we knew what it was.

Nihilists never accomplished anything anyway...

While you may be right, I badly want to quote The Big Lebowski right now...

However, what I believe in is not exactly nihilism, it's actually absuridism. In absurdism there are 3 ways to deal with the whole "existential crisis/accepting life" problem:

1. Simply just accepting the absurd, admitting we can't really know for sure, and finding reasons to continue living.

2. Find peace from religious/spiritual beliefs

3. Suicide. Although this option is often widely dismissed, it still remains as a possible option. Unfortunately, we really have no idea what happens when you die, for all we know, it isn't even really the end.


I've picked choice #1 myself. I admit that I just can't know, and I think this whole "existing" thing is absolutely insane and unbelievable.

As for #2, I'm personally agnostic (again I just admit we really can't know for sure), but I have no problem with people who turn to religion.

Although the "scriptures" associated with religions probably aren't technically true, and I'm sure even some people who are religious accept this fact (if there was a possibility they were true there would be just one single religion, not many different religions), I think Religion generally installs great lessons and morals into people, which is good (even if some of them are perhaps abiding to these morals for the wrong reasons, like out of fear or just to get into heaven).

As for #3 it's a tough call. Is it 'easier' to "just end it"? Maybe... We don't really know, because we have no idea what happens in death, so it is just as much of a gamble as staying here is... the only difference is that by staying here you know you have control and can make choices.

The majority of people widely believe that when you die "life just stops", "nothing happens", or "you go to heaven" etc...

We say all these different beliefs so much that we actually believe one of them is really true. The chances are none of those things really actually happen.

I think that by constantly believing at least one of these things really actually happens, people feel better about dying. They figure we already actually know what happens, and that makes them not as fearful, or they feel like there's no mystery in death...


Death--and life--are still very much a complete mystery we know nothing about.

 

[kallipolis]

Keep in mind, we are only talking about thoughts here, suicidal thoughts are completely normal, and are completely rational.The fact that some people don't think about suicide mind-boggles me.

Most people never think about suicide with good reason, for human beings are designed not to self destruct...

...for homo sapiens is equipped to cope with, and over come the daily trials, and tribulations that confront every human person...no exceptions.

It is noteworthy that those who attempt to end their life by jumping off a bridge, into a river....and survive by swimming to safety...testify that their change of mind occured the moment they jumped...a metanoia that emerged when facing death in the face...

There is a very tough survival mechanism imprinted in the genetic make up of every human person, encouraging human beings to confront overwhelming odds with courage, to resolve those challenges, and prosper the result of not surrendering to ones fears that today's trials are too traumatic to solve.

Most deaths from suicide are impulsive acts, generated by an emotional overload that one cannot cope with ones current depressing circumstances...reaching out to a mature friend is ones attempt to score victory, over surrender...to fear

A good night's sleep leads us into tomorrow when a remedy appears, and self destructive thoughts evaporate into ones past.

This site is helpful for those who are depressed, and needing practical guidance to cope with their traumas:

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

 

[tarallucci]

Well we live a life with strict rules where even being successful doesn't guarantee happiness so, rationally, choosing to end one's life makes sense. I think about it many times as I like to question myself about everything and I would really like to see the "bigger picture". But I can't be evil, for as much as I hate myself sometimes, I don't think killing oneself is the right reaction.

When things are going bad for me, I think of it as if I was engaging in a fight with (the rules of) nature and automatically self-defend. I want to be stronger.

Hugs to you, peeonme.

 

[kallipolis]

Well we live a life with strict rules where even being successful doesn't guarantee happiness so, rationally, choosing to end one's life makes sense. I think about it many times as I like to question myself about everything and I would really like to see the "bigger picture". But I can't be evil, for as much as I hate myself sometimes, I don't think killing oneself is the right reaction.

When things are going bad for me, I think of it as if I was engaging in a fight with (the rules of) nature and automatically self-defend. I want to be stronger.

Hugs to you, peeonme.

To enjoy happiness one has to experience unhappiness....periods of unhappiness eventually lead to periods of happiness.

Self destructing during a depressing period is no reason to kill oneself, and miss out enjoying the next phase of ones life, living in celebration of ones life.

Unless one is a control freak rules, and laws are not going to impact obsessively on ones life.

To repeat a well worn cliche: when life becomes tough, the tough, toughen up.

 

[kallipolis]

Fear of failure holds back many people from realising their dreams especially, in those moments when a traumatic event such as the failure of an intimate relationship, diverts the attention of those whose plans are firmly focused on revealing the gifts that life grants them to share with those they love.

Socrates had that knack of reminding us that life is just a moment in time, not to be wasted by fearing the unknown consequences of putting out into the deep, by living life to the fullest, when we approach that fork in the road, take it...thereby, rejecting our constant fear that our choice might just be the wrong one...

Be not, a shrinking violet...be courageous, transform your self by experiencing the thrills of living knowing, that our choices fashion us into the person unconquered by fear of living.

Embrace the absurd, believe that even the littlest of people can move mountains when our fears are vanquished, releasing positive energies; courage, forbearance, endurance, patience that commit us to forging our dreams into reality...in effect, the life of reason, and the life of feeling need not be opposed; that intellect, and passion can, and should be a natural expression of human endeavour revealing, the gifts that every human being possesses to create meaning, and purpose dedicated to serving the common good.

Possibly the greatest inspiration and example that our unyielding attempts to move mountains provides for our peers, is the lesson that it is still feasible for an enterprising dreamer to face their life's invitation to live life to the fullest....with a full appreciation of its contradictions, injustices, brutal flaws, and absurdities....to fashion the clay that each of us holds within our grasp, into a life worth living to celebrate...

 

[Buddyy]

Most people never think about suicide with good reason, for human beings are designed not to self destruct...

What you said is interesting, I guess, but I completely disagree. A lot of people think about suicide, very few people attempt to commit it.

I see nothing wrong with thinking about suicide, and pondering the mystery that is death. You can't time-travel to the future right now, but you could theoretically kill yourself, which could lead to an equally exciting/mysterious journey.

There's so much unknown, it's hardly self destructive to wonder about things greater than our own reality.

Also, you are assuming that suicide is "self-destructing", honestly we don't even know what happens.

But, like I've said before, acting upon such pondering is a different story.

 

[kallipolis]

What you said is interesting, I guess, but I completely disagree.

Thanks, so do I.

 

[sixthson]

Peeonme, I think it was Martin Luther who said, in reference to temptation, that we can't help it when a bird flies over our head, but we don't have to let it nest in our hair. Dark thoughts are really no different. Anyone could have them at any time. The point is to not let them remain there. To dwell on them only makes them darker. I really see you as a strong person who has survived much in your life.
Think on that.