Are you disappointed and disgusted in me?

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Just askin'

Please provide a brief explanation of your grievances.

 

[bankside]

I don't have an ignore list.

My impression is that you have fallen into the old trap of assuming all people in immigrant groups are likely to support the most loudmouth extremists in the minority group. I don't know if you realise how easy it is to split up the "solidarity" in a group like that just by appealing to universal values, being even-handed in the rules of public life, and by criticizing specific ideas instead of people or cultures as a whole.

But that neither disappoints nor disgusts, though it does sometimes annoy.

 

[chillyboi]

Could care less either way

 

[Dolmance]

I've only ever come across....three people at most who have utterly and unambiguously disgusted me on da interwebz, and you ain't one of them.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I don't know if you realise how easy it is to split up the "solidarity" in a group like that just by appealing to universal values, being even-handed in the rules of public life, and by criticizing specific ideas instead of people or cultures as a whole.

The governments of North-Western Europe have actually reinforced hostile groups by giving them a dispensation from the universal values by applying multiculturalism.

I don't know if that's an easy thing to do or not, but I do know that if the people who have been in power for the last thirty years will not change if they are elected again, and they need to be called out for neglecting the values that they are supposedly the keepers of.

 

[G-Lexington]

If we weren't, I have a feeling that YOU'd be disappointed.

Lex

 

[swerve]

I'm disappointed...

But cannot claim to be disgusted...


Disappointed that you pay NO ATTENTION to us BEAUTIFUL people...

 

[Ekim23]

Im not sharing your point of views

Thats it.. But doesnt mean Im disappointed or disgusted

 

[rareboy]

Frankly, I can't say that I put any stock in what you do or think as an individual. You are an avatar. If anyone on a forum is disappointed or disgusted, they are taking you way too seriously.

I just hope you are not typical.

 

[bankside]

The governments of North-Western Europe have actually reinforced hostile groups by giving them a dispensation from the universal values by applying multiculturalism.

I don't know if that's an easy thing to do or not, but I do know that if the people who have been in power for the last thirty years will not change if they are elected again, and they need to be called out for neglecting the values that they are supposedly the keepers of.

There you go again! I would probably agree with you if you said "the governments of north-western europe have provided easy cover for hostile individuals by giving them a dispensation from universal values" but you can't resist the assumption that everyone thinks alike!

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

There you go again! I would probably agree with you if you said "the governments of north-western europe have provided easy cover for hostile individuals by giving them a dispensation from universal values" but you can't resist the assumption that everyone thinks alike!

I believe that only groups in society can exercise significant power on legislation and other affairs of state, and that's how democratic representation works.

 

[ViennaExpat83]

There you go again! I would probably agree with you if you said "the governments of north-western europe have provided easy cover for hostile individuals by giving them a dispensation from universal values" but you can't resist the assumption that everyone thinks alike!

I think you are interpreting the OP's stance in light of immigrants in the USA, which are mostly Latin American. However, as I have seen living in Europe, in some European countries there has been immigration from people from very backward Muslim countries, who continue to have their very illiberal attitudes and behaviors in Europe.
Now, not all Muslims in Europe are fundamentalists or ill-integrated. My experience of people from Iran and Turkey here in Austria is that, with differing degrees, most are doing just fine and many are great people.
But, for example, in the UK there are substantial numbers of Muslim immigrants that are very hostile to their host country and have completely unacceptable ideas: for example, a study showed that 36% of British Muslims 18-30 yo thought that a Muslim who changed his religion should be killed. People with such ideas do not belong in a country that is a liberal democracy.
For the record, I consider myself a liberal, I am mostly pro-immigration, and have myself been an immigrant most of my life.
Immigrants get the opportunity to live in a new country, with new opportunities, in return they must seek to integrate, and must abide by the minimum core values of their host nation's culture. That includes being on board about separation of religion and state, democracy, and women's rights in the case of a Western country.

 

[star-warrior]

As you're working for a bakers, I'm disappointed in not having sampled your wares.

 

[CGHJ]

You though the puppy story I PMd you was cool. That's just kinda disturbing!

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

As you're working for a bakers, I'm disappointed in not having sampled your wares.

They belonged to my boss (straight). I'm working in the distribution warehouse of a chain of liquor stores for the next three weeks.

 

[bankside]

I think you are interpreting the OP's stance in light of immigrants in the USA, which are mostly Latin American. However, as I have seen living in Europe, in some European countries there has been immigration from people from very backward Muslim countries, who continue to have their very illiberal attitudes and behaviors in Europe.
Now, not all Muslims in Europe are fundamentalists or ill-integrated. My experience of people from Iran and Turkey here in Austria is that, with differing degrees, most are doing just fine and many are great people.
But, for example, in the UK there are substantial numbers of Muslim immigrants that are very hostile to their host country and have completely unacceptable ideas: for example, a study showed that 36% of British Muslims 18-30 yo thought that a Muslim who changed his religion should be killed. People with such ideas do not belong in a country that is a liberal democracy.
For the record, I consider myself a liberal, I am mostly pro-immigration, and have myself been an immigrant most of my life.
Immigrants get the opportunity to live in a new country, with new opportunities, in return they must seek to integrate, and must abide by the minimum core values of their host nation's culture. That includes being on board about separation of religion and state, democracy, and women's rights in the case of a Western country.

I've never been to the states, actually.

And my point, which again applies, is that you cannot formulate a "Policy to Deal with Muslims" based on the lowest common denominator, when by the stats you quote, 64% of British Muslims are quite happy to see the apostate go on breathing.

It makes a tremendous difference to give the 64% a good reception. They can be a nation's best allies against fanaticism, but xenophobia is not the way to recruit the many that are "great people."

Harke, I seldom see any nuance in your position.

 

[alley]

Nope..

You are gonna have to work much much harder...

Not even mildly displeased.

 

[foodandart]

Should I be? I dunno..

 

[bankside]

Don't be naive. Nobody likes to soil their own nest, but muslims are inable to voice any criticism on their own group at all, unless you stick their faces in the shit Islam has created. Ýou're method has been 'weighed, measured, and found wanting'.

Multi-culturalism in western Europe is dead. Just watch the coming elections.

Well the alternative to my way has usually culminated in pogroms, and that has never worked well for Europe, so I think my way is worth trying.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I am disappointed that you haven't taken a bite out of my ass yet...

I'm disgusted that the last time you flirted with me via comment was May 31st, 2009 10:21 AM

This is unnacceptable. You have to woo me if you have any chance of me agreeing to be your live in house-boy/sex-slave/cum-dump/hot-mouth.

Patience...

You can be rather unkind to Winterknight at times.

I'm! Trying! To! Bring! A! Message! Across! To! A! Hard-to-reach! Individual!

Harke, I seldom see any nuance in your position.

It's hard to explain explain this situation. There exists a certain way of formulating that wipes any criticism of trouble among Muslims under the carpet, which is never applied to other issues. I try to avoid that.

Neither really, i'd be more annoyed though if your Muslim bias was from a pure Christian standpoint.

I don't believe in any religion, although it's true that I was educated in a Protestant primary school and sometimes attend church.

In the past, none but the most orthodox churches spoke out against criticism of Islam, because they were afraid they'd be scrutinized as well. Now that attitude has changed, because the European churches have started to identify with the churches in North-Africa and the Middle East.

What comes after if it's dead? The Facism-lite that Europe had before the 2nd World War? Is Europe going to become Russia with all the racism and Neo Nazi gangs?

The neo nazi thing mostly blew over in the eighties. Nobody who is serious is going to join.

If multiculturalism dies, I'm not going to Europe, and my friend, who is as anti-white as they come will be corrected in his statements that they are inherently xenophobic.

The problem with 'multiculturalism' is that it leaves no central values to base legislation on. 'Multiculturalism' is what gave Britain 85 Sharia courts without the British voter having any say in it whatsoever.

Courts that contradict the very spirit of Britsh Law.

If we allow multiculturalism we allow for our elected representatives to get away with things like this.