Are you fucking serious?

[StlKj]

But the Na'vi were shown to be the hero's and the nice people and the "white" human's were the evil ones.

And if all movies were to start having all their main protagonists and heroes black then surely that would be racist too?

Sure, all of us should have equal representation, but it's just not logical to pick out this one movie.

It's things like this that are going to make it difficult for the real racist things to be addressed. It's becoming like "The boy who cried wolf"

The Na'vi would have been slaughtered without his leadership. He is the one who unifies them and leads them into battle.

And we're not talking about all protagonists becoming black--we're talking about minorities repeatedly seeing themselves depicted as beholden to the white person who comes in and saves them. It's a constantly rehashed story.

And of course they should pick on this one film--it's the biggest movie in history as far as money made, and it's getting huge publicity. What better way to get your message across about wanting to see better representation of your people than by criticizing such a huge film?

 

[scains]

The Na'vi would have been slaughtered without his leadership. He is the one who unifies them and leads them into battle.

And we're not talking about all protagonists becoming black--we're talking about minorities repeatedly seeing themselves depicted as beholden to the white person who comes in and saves them. It's a constantly rehashed story.

And of course they should pick on this one film--it's the biggest movie in history as far as money made, and it's getting huge publicity. What better way to get your message across about wanting to see better representation of your people than by criticizing such a huge film?

They were still shown to be the heroes though and the "white" man was evil.

Unfortunately it was a white man who was cast - but it could have easily been a black man - in context it adds nothing to the movie whether he is black or white. It's circumstantial. Especially since he is a 10ft tall blue cat thing for most of the movie.

I'm also not sure that the Na'vi were depicted as a minority either. We saw more of them than we did the humans - they had their own planet.

I didn't mean that you couldn't pick on this film - of course you could. Along with every other movie that was released last year. None of the romantic comedies even have a black protagonist.

I haven't heard of Sam Worthington myself but I'm sure he was chosen for star power in the movie. And not because he was white.

 

[StlKj]

They were still shown to be the heroes though and the "white" man was evil.

Unfortunately it was a white man who was cast - but it could have easily been a black man - in context it adds nothing to the movie whether he is black or white. It's circumstantial. Especially since he is a 10ft tall blue cat thing for most of the movie.

Except the villain of the piece, a white bigot, asks him how it feels to betray his race. Is he talking about the human race? Sure, but funny enough, all of the main military, corporate and scientific characters are also white.

 

[StlKj]

Yes, but there are movies where black people have a leading role as heroes. The article even lists 2 movies that have those roles. The last 20 bajillion Will Smith movies have had him as a hero. Many movies even had Black Presidents.

And the fact that it's not like there is only black natives that existed/have existed in the universe, you could apply the basis of the story to any group of natives in the World. This a theme like any other type a theme and it's not like it's a dominant theme in the movie industry.

Those upset are not upset because the hero wasn't black, Mikami. They're upset because once again it's the great white hope saving the tribe. And the lead roles of the sympathetic foreigners are played by caucasians, and the lead roles of the indigenous people are played by actors who are not caucasian.

Look, I'm not saying it's a racist film. I'm saying that it's not such a stretch of the imagination that people who time and again don't get to see huge films made where they're the saviors of their own people, just as we don't often get to see ourselves represented in a variety of film genres coming from Hollywood. I just don't think it's right to say someone is overly sensitive about something just because our experiences aren't theirs.

It's just as easy to say that anyone who doesn't at least try to understand how someone could be upset is not sensitive enough.

 

[scains]

Except the villain of the piece, a white bigot, asks him how it feels to betray his race. Is he talking about the human race? Sure, but funny enough, all of the main military, corporate and scientific characters are also white.

Michelle Rodriguez is Hispanic - a minority. She played Trudy.

 

[scains]

Those upset are not upset because the hero wasn't black, Mikami. They're upset because once again it's the great white hope saving the tribe. And the lead roles of the sympathetic foreigners are played by caucasians, and the lead roles of the indigenous people are played by actors who are not caucasian.

Look, I'm not saying it's a racist film. I'm saying that it's not such a stretch of the imagination that people who time and again don't get to see huge films made where they're the saviors of their own people, just as we don't often get to see ourselves represented in a variety of film genres coming from Hollywood. I just don't think it's right to say someone is overly sensitive about something just because our experiences aren't theirs.

It's just as easy to say that anyone who doesn't at least try to understand how someone could be upset is not sensitive enough.

In my opinion, Jake Sully was one of the people more than he was someone of his own race and I think the film did a great job in portraying this.

 

[StlKj]

So what you're saying is that white people are also being portrayed poorly in the movie as well?

Honestly? The whole film relies on stereotypes. The villain is one of the biggest two-dimensional caricatures in recent movie history. He's practically a mustache twirling cartoon. And the spineless corporate guy is ripped right out of Aliens. Cameron's directing and technical brilliance can't quite cover up his weak writing.

 

[StlKj]

Exactly, so the point is moot. Not one 'race' is portrayed in any great manner if you really want to apply that kind of stuff to it.

No, Mikami, the point isn't moot simply because you're not willing to empathize with how someone might be upset by what they've seen. And since you're only trying to argue, I'm not going to continue representing their side any further. I merely wanted people to understand how some might take offense, since others in this thread had labeled such people as idiots or worse.

The title of this thread is very fitting for some of the attitudes expressed here against those who might take offense.

 

[scains]

Are my responses being ignored?

Or can you just say nothing to them?

 

[StlKj]

I fully understand, I'm just not buying it.

Good for you. With the money you save on that and the ipad you won't buy, you can start a retirement fund!

 

[StlKj]

Are my responses being ignored?

Or can you just say nothing to them?

I addressed your points, scains. I already explained my purpose here. You don't agree, nor are you trying to understand how others might feel, so there's really no more discussion to be had.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Shit, am I such an anachronistic old man that I am the only person left

remembering when sometimes movies were just entertsinment and didn't have to be
fucking social statements?

Blame it on Star Wars Episode IV.

 

[scains]

I addressed your points, scains. I already explained my purpose here. You don't agree, nor are you trying to understand how others might feel, so there's really no more discussion to be had.

Did you address my point on Michelle Rodriguez being Hispanic (a minority) and playing a main character - even though they are all white?

And did you address my point that Jake Sully was more part of the Na'vi people than the humans'? If you had really watched it as a piece of entertainment rather than scrutinizing it for a political purpose you may have understood the themes.

 

[StlKj]

My response to your point about Ms. Rodriguez didn't show up when my dsl went down. I apologized to her for not considering her character a main role; she was great in it though.

As far as him being more Na'vi, he wasn't at first. He assimilated into the tribe, first as a deceiver, then apparently, as their ruler (we aren't sure, since the film ends). And if he does become their ruler--what, was no other Na'vi worthy?

And you weren't paying attention to MY points, scains, or you would have seen I loved the film, flaws and all. You're arguing that it's not offensive; I'm arguing that just because some minorities found it offensive, that doesn't make them stupid whiners, as some in this thread suggested.

 

[LilBit]

Even if you read it metaphorically (Earthlings as European colonizers, Na'vi as colonized brown/red/yellow people), I'd be hard-pressed to read this film as racist per se. I think it' more a tired revival of the old "noble savage" trope, which, while not explicitly racist, does present the world in a problematically simplistic manner.

 

[Lefty]

This thread has been a great source of food for thought to me. I

thought it was going to be entertaining like so many movies are supposed

to be. But my awareness levels have been awakened and I am pissed.

All those Tarzan shows and movies depicting a white man monkeying

about in a breechclout with his long hair tied back in a ribbon.

Fucking sexist, racist and also demeaning to animals. We must

immediately form a protest group NOW as in FORTHWITH..

How dare they portray gays (pretty white face w/long hair)as 90 percent

naked (loincloth), semi literate (check script), with no fashion sense (tacky headband) poor hygiene (no bathroom) and affiliated with the lower classes (gangs of apes)


AN ABSOLUTE OUTRAGE...
rise up people, march, protest, rally round the rainbow.......

 

[sentirpromesas]

as much as i agree that Avatar was a beautifully crafted film, i also agree that it perpetuates the "white saviour myth"

i dont think people who are in the majority can really see the racist undertones of the movie. It's not overt. I don't claim for it to be. But its definitely there.

 

[StlKj]

Hello, last I checked Homo Sapiens was a SPECIES and not a RACE, contrary to the popular misnomer "Human Race". Sorry to shit on your parade. Please, continue your discussion...

You didn't shit on anyone's parade. The CHARACTER referred to his betrayal of his "race," obviously in reference to the term "human race."

 

[StlKj]

And yet, as I stated, Human is not a race. It is a misnomer. I don't see how I can clarify that any further... Ok maybe by doing this: Human and Race. So, yet again, there is no Human Race, regardless of what a fictional character in a Science-Fiction movie may have said.

Then clarify it with James Cameron--they're his words. No one here is arguing against you.

 

[StlKj]

So now let's add this:


And now the dealer passes.
8)

You don't pay attention, dealer. All you want to do is start shit. I didn't say it is the human race. The character makes the reference--the moronic bigoted cartoon marine makes the reference. No one here is saying that cartoonish buffoon is right.