Argument with boyfriend

[Kleptomaniac]

Hey all,

Long time visitor, first time poster.
I'm in a relatively new relationship (just under 4 months) with this guy whom I'm desperately in love with (it's reciprocated) and can definitely see us together for a long time.
Unfortunately we had an argument a few nights ago over our views on having biological children (in the future of course).

We are both in our late 20's, I'm younger and of Latin background, he's 1 year older and a white Australian.

We both share many interests and views including wanting biological kids in our mid to late 30's.

He has always displayed certain views regarding certain genetic trades/ethnicities which I usually chuckle at because I know they are entirely in jest. He's a good guy, just jaded by his small town upbringing.

The other night while the topic of kids came up again he mentioned that he wanted his kids to be like him, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Me being of latin descent have dark hair and dark eyes).
I couldn't help but feel somewhat offended by this idea, which I expressed to him. I felt like my genes weren't wanted as part of his "ideal" view on genetics. This made me begin to wonder why he even liked me to begin with, having neither blonde hair or blue eyes.
He took this "criticism" as a judgement of his views & preferences and went on to state that:

• he's entitled to his views.

• this is all only hypothetical and is far too early to get worked up about.

• if he were straight, he'd more than likely be dating a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes (which kinda offended me more but since it's not part of this reality, I let it slide).

I couldn't help but continue to feel somewhat reject (as in, i'm OK to date, because he's gay, but not good enough to have a biological child with) and I guess my attitude for the rest of the night reflected this - which of course made HIM feel uncomfortable and he decided to just take me home because he didn't want to put up with this.

I understand that it's far too early to even be going into any of this with a fine toothed comb but still. I'm somewhat lost as to what to think/feel.

I'd like to hear from you guys and see what you think.
I am not asking anyone to take sides, or declare who's right and wrong.

Am I justified to feel insulted and somewhat rejected by all this?


In an ideal world - where two men COULD produce children who are a biological mix of both parents - I'd definitely want to my child to carry a part of my partner. In my eyes that would make them even more beautiful and i'd love him/her AND my partner even more.
Failing that, I'd opt to have an egg donor who shares physical trade with my partner so the child would still have some resemblance of both of us.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well, you feel what you feel, there is no right or wrong about that, it's what you do with it that matters.

This isn't about kids, it's about attitudes. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for that.

Let it lie, until you can talk about without the drama, then discuss - calmly, in a non-accusatory manner.

use - "I feel..." not "you made me feel..."

 

[Rolyo85]

That said, he comes across as an insensitive douchebag. "I am entitled to my opinion" is not an argument at all in a relationship, especially when said opinion translates as white supremacism and offends the person you're supposed to care about. So is he saying that he won't love a child if it were made of your genes? That if you want to be with him, it has to be his?

There are issues here, and I don't like them.

But other than that, you should follow TX's advice.

 

[Seasoned]

Put the argument on the back burner, but not for long. In a calm moment bring up the subject of ethnicity and ask him to tell you what made him fall in love with you. I don't think it's necessary to bring up the child issue again, at least not now. If you guys stay together and still have the desire to have a child, a very serious discussion needs to happen. Hopefully, in the ensuing time his attitudes will change, but keep your ears and eyes open. You may have fallen for a bigot.

 

[swerve]

WOW!!!

That is an argument with NO winner!!!

I mean -- YOUR prejudices in regards to a child are EQUAL to HIS prejudices...

And yet -- you are a LOVING couple!!!

Understanding that YOUR genes are PREDOMINANT -- could you agree to TWO children...

ONE of EACH of YOU???

IF not -- I'll have to submit your dilemma to King Solomon...

 

[sixthson]

I am a blonde haired, blue eyed Norwegian, my partner is a black haired, black eyed Greek. What your bf said is really stupid and selfish. How can you be attracted to someone and feel the way he does? I don't get it.

 

[swerve]

I just called a VERY GOOD friend who IS latino...

And this is the advice HE gave...

Keeping in mind that him and his partner have thought about this...

IF you are going to go the adoption route -- don't look at the color -- fall in love with the child...

IF you choose to "rent the belly" (as he put it) -- BOTH of you should fuck the girl and see which one wins...

And then LOVE the child...

GOOD ADVICE as far as I'm concerned!!!

 

[Kleptomaniac]

This isn't about kids, it's about attitudes. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for that.

Let it lie, until you can talk about without the drama, then discuss - calmly, in a non-accusatory manner

Thanks TX, i completely agree. He seems to put up a wall when he feels attacked (even if he's not actually being attacked), and that seems to make it hard for him to listen to reason, or admit any mistakes - weirdly enough, my Father's the same way, so I'm used to dealing with this kind of situation...
I'm happy to wait and let things take their time to resolve in a constructive manner.

That said, he comes across as an insensitive douchebag. "I am entitled to my opinion" is not an argument at all in a relationship, especially when said opinion translates as white supremacism and offends the person you're supposed to care about.

Haha, he's not a white supremest, trust me. His jokes may sometimes paint him that way, but he's a nice honest guy; who's mouth sometimes gets away from him.

He likes Latins, i know that much, and he's had previous relationships/experiences with guys of various ethnicities (most of which turned out to be bad experiences and he was treated shitty, so that's probably why he has a certain prejudices now days). It's really a case by case basis i guess. He's not racist; just Australian.

To clarify, he never said he wouldn't love a child i fathered. I made sure to clarify that with him before he dropped me off home.
During our 'future' talks, we discussed having 2 or so kids, half being fathered by me, half by him (the most realistic approach). He's said that of course he would love all of them equally; he just wants his to have blonde hair and blue eyes. Kinda like how I'd like a kid with blue eyes, but my genes are probably far too dominant, despite having those genes from both sides of my family.

He does seem to have a bit of an attitude though. I won't deny that. There's been a lot of stress and difficulties in his professional and private life recently, so i'm sure all that's been building up and he's starting to snap like a rubber band.

During our earlier days, he did clarify that he needs to work on himself. Which i'm fine with. I don't expect to force anyone to change for me. But having said that, i am a firm believer that in a loving relationship people do change themselves for the better.

 

[Kleptomaniac]

hehe, lots of usefull feedback so far, thanks guys.

I have a feeling that as time goes by he'll start to change his mind as the relationship develops. It's probably not worth arguing about until we get closer to that eventual date.

If you guys stay together and still have the desire to have a child, a very serious discussion needs to happen. Hopefully, in the ensuing time his attitudes will change, but keep your ears and eyes open. You may have fallen for a bigot.

I will keep an eye out. I'm pretty sure he's not a bigot. I think he's just stuck with this plan in his head that he made some time ago before he even met anyone to fullfill it with.
Only time will tell.

Understanding that YOUR genes are PREDOMINANT -- could you agree to TWO children...

ONE of EACH of YOU???

IF not -- I'll have to submit your dilemma to King Solomon...

I WANT PIE NOW!!!!

We both agreed that we'd like at least 2 kids (tops 4 - which sounds ridiculous i know). The way we rationalize it is:

• 1 (single child) would get lonely with no one to play with (pets being poor substitutes)

• 2 is a nice number for me, one child could be biologically mine, and one his (assuming no miracle gene splicing technology emerges by then).

• 3 would create a power struggle where two are likely to group up while the third is left out to feel lonely

• 4 would also work, and give us the chance to have one boy one girl each (i'm trying to avoid thinking of them as "HIS" kids and "MY" kids).

....

Haha, reading all that makes it sound very school-girlish.

Like i said, none of this may happen. It all really depends where we are in the future and whether we are financially stable enough for even 1 kid.

I am a blonde haired, blue eyed Norwegian, my partner is a black haired, black eyed Greek. What your bf said is really stupid and selfish. How can you be attracted to someone and feel the way he does? I don't get it.

Yeh, that's what went through my mind, and that's why i was so upset. I know he does love me, for my character and physical attributes. Like i said, i suspect he's just stuck on an old plan.

IF you choose to "rent the belly" (as he put it) -- BOTH of you should fuck the girl and see which one wins...

And then LOVE the child...

GOOD ADVICE as far as I'm concerned!!!

Haha, very good advice. Although i think the only kind of girl we'd both be willing to fuck would need to have a penis.

 

[Seasoned]

^Don't do it with him if the "mine" and "yours" issue comes up or persists. They all need to belong to you both or you are setting them up for emotional abuse at best.

 

[future_retro]

He sounds insensitive and racist to me. The comment that "if he were straight, he'd more than likely be dating a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes" is especially insensitive. It implies that he's only going out with a guy with dark features because there's less choice of partners in the gay world so he's had to lower go outside his ideal parameters. That's how I read it anyway. I would be wanting to know what, exactly, he loves about you. And if he can't/won't articulate that, there's a problem.

As for having kids, I think your guy is right on that score. It's really early - you've only been together for four months. If you're together after a couple of years and still want to have kids, maybe revisit the idea then?

 

[altlover85]

The other night while the topic of kids came up again he mentioned that he wanted his kids to be like him, with blonde hair and blue eyes. Me being of latin descent have dark hair and dark eyes).
I couldn't help but feel somewhat offended by this idea, which I expressed to him. I felt like my genes weren't wanted as part of his "ideal" view on genetics. This made me begin to wonder why he even liked me to begin with, having neither blonde hair or blue eyes.
He took this "criticism" as a judgement of his views & preferences and went on to state that:

• he's entitled to his views.

• this is all only hypothetical and is far too early to get worked up about.

• if he were straight, he'd more than likely be dating a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes (which kinda offended me more but since it's not part of this reality, I let it slide).

Am I justified to feel insulted and somewhat rejected by all this?

I do think you are justified to feel hurt by this.

When I first read your post, I thought he might have said what he said because your genes would be the dominant ones. Regardless, it was an insensitve thing to say.

I do understand the idea of being attracted to different things in men as compared to women. When I was a teenager, I was attracted to Asian girls, but was also attracted to older white guys. It was strange and I'm not sure why, but that's how I felt.

As I've gotten older, my taste in men hasn't really changed all that much, except that I'm more attracted to a wider age range of guys and a wider range of ethnicities since I've been exposed to a more diverse set of men, working in a city.

^Don't do it with him if the "mine" and "yours" issue
comes up or persists. They all need to belong to you both or you are setting them up for emotional abuse at best.

I definitely agree with this.

Ultimately, I would tell him that it bothered you and ask him to explain himself better.

 

[ezwriter]

1. Four months is way, way, WAY TOO SOON to even be entertaining the faintest hint of an idea of having children together, let alone how you will have them and what they will look like. Stop. Just stop. Now.

2. Let me just throw into the mix the argument that he is acting in a way that is completely understandable from an evolutionary biological perspective.

The need, desire, base instinct, call it what you want, to continue our genetic line into the next generation is the result of millions of years of evolution. It is ingrained in our DNA. He is giving this completely natural instinct a voice.

3. There could also be just a hint of internalized homophobia at work here. Having a child that resembles you brings about fewer questions, therefore less need to explain your situation to others...his musing about what kind of woman he would date could be part of this as well.

4. What bothers me more as a fellow Latino is your apparent willingness to fall into the subservient, inferior role in this relationship dynamic. Why are you on here, worrying about whether or not he thinks your skin color, hair color, and genes are good enough for him, and not the other way around? Why are you handing that power over to him? It kind of seems that, at some level, you are buying into the whole "white/blonde hair/blue eyes is superior" mentality.

5. I would strongly, strongly suggest that, after you are together for many years in a stable and financially secure relationship, and you are 10000% certain that you both are able to love all of your children equally regardless of their biological origin, that you consider adoption. This whole one-kid-with-my-genes-and-one-with-yours could really blow up in all of your faces in terms of custody, should you ever break up.