Arizona Cracking Down on Teachers with Accents

[Seasoned]

"Teachers should speak good grammar because kids pick up what they hear," said Johanna Haver, a proponent of English-language immersion who serves as an adviser to Arizona educators. "Where you draw the line is debatable."

Johanna, Johanna, speak good grammar? Really? I guess you'll lose your job. We don't speak good grammar; we speak good English, which exhibits good grammar.

Everyone makes language errors. This policy is anti-Hispanic. Check with your neighbor, New Mexico. Their constitution is bilingual.

 

[chuck10x]

[ame="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiOK_bF0saA"]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiOK_bF0saA[/ame]

 

[T-Rexx]

This is intended directly for ESL classrooms. By its very definition, if you're teaching students that speak another language first and english second, they are ESL or ELL students. It is also very clear that these classrooms were taught almost exclusively in spanish until voters passed a law requiring classes to be taught in English.

Please read the WSJ article, because it makes my point very clear. While there will certainly be regular classroom teachers that are affected, this is directed almost entirely at ELL and ESL teachers.

Oddly, it seems students actually learn English as a second language better when the teacher speaks with the same accent they have:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/learning/accented-teachers-may-be-bette.html


So, if Arizona wants the kids to learn English, they should actually prefer to hire teachers with Hispanic accents.

But, of course, improving the education of Arizona children is not really the goal here.

 

[JB3]

Oddly, it seems students actually learn English as a second language better when the teacher speaks with the same accent they have:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/learning/accented-teachers-may-be-bette.html


So, if Arizona wants the kids to learn English, they should actually prefer to hire teachers with Hispanic accents.

But, of course, improving the education of Arizona children is not really the goal here.

Only in your twisted brain.

The issue is that these teachers have the capability to teach their students english improperly because of their accent. That's what its all about. Any ulterior motive is a figment of your imagination.

 

[JB3]

"Teachers should speak good grammar because kids pick up what they hear," said Johanna Haver, a proponent of English-language immersion who serves as an adviser to Arizona educators. "Where you draw the line is debatable."

Johanna, Johanna, speak good grammar? Really? I guess you'll lose your job. We don't speak good grammar; we speak good English, which exhibits good grammar.

Everyone makes language errors. This policy is anti-Hispanic. Check with your neighbor, New Mexico. Their constitution is bilingual.

It isn't anti-hispanic because ALL teachers will be evaluated.

I really don't understand why people are getting so up in arms about something that can be objectively measured and is meant to make sure students are actually LEARNING properly.

 

[MercuryJones]

^^

Where is the evidence that "tonal correctness" will improve student learning?

And how is it "objectively" measured?

 

[poolerboy]

These teachers will be responsible for teaching students english, its reasonable that they themselves be able to speak it well. This also isn't just Arizona; this was part of No Child Left Behind.

Have you ever heard Former Mexican President Vicente Fox speak English? Though he has a thick Mexican accent, the vocabulary he employs is quite erudite. Heavy accents are not necessarily indicators of poor linguistic skills (they simply must practice on their phonemes). Also notice that the accents they're after are hispanic ones. Are they not aware that English-only speakers can have thick American accents with very poor speaking capibilities? Why Arizona insists in sinking itself deeper in this racial hole they've dug up is beyond me. I thought they'd stop with the no-solidarity-in-ethnic-courses but apparently they're just getting warmed up.

 

[SuperPsyze]

Hey -- what about Aussies!!!

They're trying to eradicate the oh-so-sexy Australian accent?

 

[wastingmymind]

My aunt is a teacher in Arizona and I hope she'll be all right.

 

[JB3]

^^

Where is the evidence that "tonal correctness" will improve student learning?

And how is it "objectively" measured?

See above. There are objective measures for language established by speech and language pathologists.

And you honestly don't believe that this won't improve student learning? If a student is learning improper english and incorrect pronunciation, how the hell is that helping them to learn?

 

[JB3]

Have you ever heard Former Mexican President Vicente Fox speak English? Though he has a thick Mexican accent, the vocabulary he employs is quite erudite. Heavy accents are not necessarily indicators of poor linguistic skills (they simply must practice on their phonemes). Also notice that the accents they're after are hispanic ones. Are they not aware that English-only speakers can have thick American accents with very poor speaking capibilities? Why Arizona insists in sinking itself deeper in this racial hole they've dug up is beyond me. I thought they'd stop with the no-solidarity-in-ethnic-courses but apparently they're just getting warmed up.

You're dead wrong. This law will affect ALL teachers and will evaluate every single one of them.

 

[MercuryJones]

See above. There are objective measures for language established by speech and language pathologists.

Didn't see it. Please repost the citation.

And you honestly don't believe that this won't improve student learning? If a student is learning improper english and incorrect pronunciation, how the hell is that helping them to learn?

You're assuming an accent detracts from learning. Prove it.

 

[Kulindahr]

And you honestly don't believe that this won't improve student learning? If a student is learning improper english and incorrect pronunciation, how the hell is that helping them to learn?

Did you read this?

Oddly, it seems students actually learn English as a second language better when the teacher speaks with the same accent they have:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/learning/accented-teachers-may-be-bette.html


So, if Arizona wants the kids to learn English, they should actually prefer to hire teachers with Hispanic accents.

But, of course, improving the education of Arizona children is not really the goal here.

Having learned a number of languages, I can attest to that: the hardest part of learning a second language is training the brain to recognize sounds it isn't accustomed to noticing. Trying to make students tackle that while they're still struggling with vocabulary and grammar is counter-productive, because the brain functions on pattern-recognition. Until they have the patterns of word and sentence down, the brain has nothing to 'hang' those new sounds on, and as long as the ear doesn't learn to hear them, they will never learn to speak them.

The best way to learn a second language is to begin with someone who speaks it as a second language, whose first is your own. Then you progress to someone who speaks it as a first language, whose second is your own. I tackled Spanish that way, and did four years of college Spanish in a summer.

So in grade school these students should have teachers who, as the article notes, speak it with the same accent they have, or -- best of all -- with several accents they know (when I was in Mexico with that summer Spanish class, we noted three distinct accents -- loosely referred to as low, high, and media). In middle school, make the switch to those who speak their language with an "American" accent (yeah -- which one?).

There's another trick that probably isn't politically correct these days: take a common piece of well-known literature in Mexican Spanish, and have them memorize the English. For younger folks, the brain starts making the connections because it's virtually impossible to recite in the new language without thinking in the old.

 

[Kulindahr]

Didn't see it. Please repost the citation.

He's right. And if you're into details of this sort of thing, I took a course where we discovered that Henry Higgins was right: English actually has about twenty vowels -- we just force five symbols to do the job, and then don't pronounce them right half the time anyway.

You're assuming an accent detracts from learning. Prove it.

If the accent is too thick, the brain gets the message "All circuits are busy now. Please try again later."

Actually the point at which it becomes a problem is not in the learning of the new language, but in the use of that language to learn other things. That's what's so stupid about this. As T.R.'s article explains, they'll learn English better if their teachers have their accent. Once they actually speak it is the time to worry about accents.

I ended up speaking Spanish with a Cuban accent -- but I started with someone who spoke it with a mild southern drawl.

 

[poolerboy]

You're dead wrong. This law will affect ALL teachers and will evaluate every single one of them.

Don't stop believin'.

 

[Ambrocious]

Let us pray that George Bush never becomes a teacher...he will be messing with my internet(s) all day long!


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNvfpFL-26E"]Rumors on the Internets[/ame]

Yeah I know it's a quick video but still funny.

 

[poolerboy]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk91m3WxR0c[/ame]

 

[CoolBlue71]

Are Arizona officials more qualified to assess their teachers than Texas officials in educating their students?

 

[JB3]

Are Arizona officials more qualified to assess their teachers than Texas officials in eductating their students?

Huh?