At what point does self-destructive behaviour render one's life no longer liveable?

[BrainDamage]

...Self-destructive behaviour in all dimensions: mind, body, soul, etc.

Thank you.

 

[Seasoned]

A person with the ability to ask that question would have the responsibility to do something about it. Isn't really about ego gone amuck, thinking it is all about self when obviously others are always involved?

 

[kallipolis]

Our life's story is only over when we draw our last breath.

Pandora's Box reminds us that Hope, manifests life's reinforcing resources, that only become apparent when we believe that we have exhausted all our options.

It is in our darkest moments that we embrace Hope, as our greatest, of friends whose presence in our life, encourages us to rise out of our pit of despair.

To know the pain of suffering, is to also, grasp the opportunities, that life grants to all, who seek to celebrate life's fortune and joys.

Let no man deny himself his birth right to live in freedom from all that fear imposes upon those of us, whose fears incarcerate us into a pit of misery and hopelessness.

Through life's experiences the wise man realises that it is only through life's, many challenges that all human life learns to appreciate, and celebrate all that life restores to those who are patiently, learning from the pit falls that attempt to divert us from our road into our future happiness.

 

[evilest]

Q: At what point does self-destructive behaviour render one's life no longer liveable?

A: It doesn't, it just makes you perfect for working in retail.

 

[Gomaki]

When it kills you?

 

[kallipolis]

When the world says, "Give up,"
Hope whispers, "Try it one more time."

~Anon

 

[BrainDamage]

When it kills you?

Rather, "when you kill yourself," right? Self-destruction seems to be figurative suicide, killing of different parts of one's life. It's different from other life-destroying forces (such as disease and diaster) in that it's more or less a personal choice. At some point, there's only a single part of life which remains to be killed off; life itself...right? Re-wording my question, "when does someone know that he/she has reached this point?"

A person with the ability to ask that question would have the responsibility to do something about it. Isn't really about ego gone amuck, thinking it is all about self when obviously others are always involved?

"Ability"?

I don't quite understand this answer. "Responsibility"? To whom? To "others"? Self-destructive behaviour, I'd assume, would entail destroying any connection to these "others" and disregarding any obligation to them. To oneself? Responsibility to oneself... I'm not sure I understand this concept. Does this responsibility just manifest itself out of nowhere?

Our life's story is only over when we draw our last breath.

Pandora's Box reminds us that Hope, manifests life's reinforcing resources, that only become apparent when we believe that we have exhausted all our options.

It is in our darkest moments that we embrace Hope, as our greatest, of friends whose presence in our life, encourages us to rise out of our pit of despair.

To know the pain of suffering, is to also, grasp the opportunities, that life grants to all, who seek to celebrate life's fortune and joys.

Let no man deny himself his birth right to live in freedom from all that fear imposes upon those of us, whose fears incarcerate us into a pit of misery and hopelessness.

Through life's experiences the wise man realises that it is only through life's, many challenges that all human life learns to appreciate, and celebrate all that life restores to those who are patiently, learning from the pit falls that attempt to divert us from our road into our future happiness.

When the world says, "Give up,"
Hope whispers, "Try it one more time."

I'm not sure if this is relevant to the question. Nevertheless, other interpretations of Pandora's Box exist, including the idea that Hope is evil in disguise, as it forces people to suffer, while waiting for a happiness that's no longer possible or was never there in the first place.

Self-destructive behaviour need not stem from despair, pain of suffering, or fear. And the voice that says "give up" certainly doesn't need to be an external one.

 

[kallipolis]

I'm not sure if this is relevant to the question. Nevertheless, other interpretations of Pandora's Box exist, including the idea that Hope is evil in disguise, as it forces people to suffer, while waiting for a happiness that's no longer possible or was never there in the first place.

Self-destructive behaviour need not stem from despair, pain of suffering, or fear. And the voice that says "give up" certainly doesn't need to be an external one.

Pandora's Box is the realisation of our birth right to live in hope, rather than have our life destroyed, by perceptions that masquerade as self destructive behaviour.

Suffering is part, and parcel of the journey through our life, and although, never welcome, is nevertheless an educational tool, that enables us to learn from our periods of apparent paradise lost.

Self destructive behaviour signals our willingness to surrender our birth right to a wonderful life, by thoughts, that all is lost, and consequently we have nothing to lose, by immersing ourself in a pit of unforgiving self despair.

The other side of the coin recognises that despite all of our life's challenges there is always another peak, to climb when we have succeeded in scaling our current dilemma.

Shangri La is never discovered, when we choose to turn our back, on life's adventure. The experienced traveller understands that the journey is only worth our while, when we elect to embrace all of our life's challenges, as our means to grow into the person who has mastered his fears.

Do not let your fears, dictate their impositions on your dreams, to live in freedom from all that would short circuit your right, to a full and challenging life.

 

[BrainDamage]

Pandora's Box is the realisation of our birth right to live in hope, rather than have our life destroyed, by perceptions that masquerade as self destructive behaviour.

Suffering is part, and parcel of the journey through our life, and although, never welcome, is nevertheless an educational tool, that enables us to learn from our periods of apparent paradise lost.

Self destructive behaviour signals our willingness to surrender our birth right to a wonderful life, by thoughts, that all is lost, and consequently we have nothing to lose, by immersing ourself in a pit of unforgiving self despair.

Birth right? What evidence do you have of this? And so what if it's considered "surrendering?" Who are we trying to impress?

The other side of the coin recognises that despite all of our life's challenges there is always another peak, to climb when we have succeeded in scaling our current dilemma.

Shangri La is never discovered, when we choose to turn our back, on life's adventure. The experienced traveller understands that the journey is only worth our while, when we elect to embrace all of our life's challenges, as our means to grow into the person who has mastered his fears.

Do not let your fears, dictate their impositions on your dreams, to live in freedom from all that would short circuit your right, to a full and challenging life.

This is where our thoughts diverge, I think. Life has its challenges, granted. People may have dreams they want to fulfill and the desire to live in freedom and so forth. I think you're saying that fear and despair are impairments to these goals. Through the process of self-destruction, we can choose not to take on these challenges, destroy those dreams and kill those desires. Simultaneously, we would be killing our ability to feel emotions, making us immune to the effects of fear and despair, in turn "mastering" them as well.

At some point, there's only a single part of life which remains to be killed off; life itself...right? Re-wording my question, "when does someone know that he/she has reached this point?"

 

[kallipolis]

Birth right? What evidence do you have of this? And so what if it's considered "surrendering?" Who are we trying to impress?

The birth right of the human being is to live in freedom from fear. The evidence for this is clearly revealed in our own life's journey. We become the witness to this fact of life. Without freedom, we are unable to express, whom we are. By expressing our self, we become the result of our life's journey. We become, whom we are.

This is where our thoughts diverge, I think. Life has its challenges, granted. People may have dreams they want to fulfill and the desire to live in freedom and so forth. I think you're saying that fear and despair are impairments to these goals. Through the process of self-destruction, we can choose not to take on these challenges, destroy those dreams and kill those desires. Simultaneously, we would be killing our ability to feel emotions, making us immune to the effects of fear and despair, in turn "mastering" them as well.

Self destruction ends our life's story. Nothing more to be said.

 

[BrainDamage]

Who reads our life stories?

Some stories are never written. No one will ever notice.

 

[fetaby]

Self destructive behaviour doesn't render one's life unlivable. But what kind of life does it leave? I'm not familiar with physically destructive behaviour so I can't speak on that. But I am familiar with mental destructive behaviour. Depression, low self esteem, shame, denial, doubt, and fear.

I think your romanticising self destruction as some form of self discovery. And it could be true. But the feelings it brings about are not pleasant, at least for me. While you may discover what you think is your truths, realize that at the same time your truth is connected to the rest of this world through the connections of interpersonal relationships that surround you. What you do to yourself will invariably cause ripples throughout the rest of the world through these connections. And it works the other way as well. Your connections affect you in ways you may never know. Severing those connections, isolating your reality of truth as you know it can never be completely possible, as long as you operate within society and come in to contact with sentient beings. You may not believe that the connections are there, but even the simplest of gestures such as looking your walmart cashier in the face brings these connections about. Do you think she won't remember you? She will, and she will miss you even if she doesn't know it.

The ability to ask this question and the responsibility it incurrs. I think I have my head wrapped around it. The fact of asking this question is your ability. You have demonstrated as much. The responsibility that comes with it is the impulse of a rational mind to stop destructive behaviour. Destruction causes pain and everything about being human is to avoid pain. If you ignore this responsibility you become something other than human, and only you will know what that is. Many labels could be applied, ex. robot, monster, psycho, etc. But what matters most is what you think you are. It is your truth after all.

Life stories and who reads them. Everything you do is part of your story. From the ponderings of an intelligent mind to the most base of biological functions, it is yours and yours alone. As to who reads them? You read your own. When you look on the past and think. Or look to the future and think. Or the present as well, to share your story is brave. Whoever you let into your life is who is reading your story. From you family and friends, to the people replying to this thread. You have shared part of your story here, and I thank you.

So once again thank you. You have made me think in ways I haven't for many years. And that reminds me, I guess I do have some experience with physically self destructive behaviour, abuse of illegal drugs.

 

[kallipolis]

^Beautifully, expressed.

 

[Telstra]

Self destructive behaviour doesn't render one's life unlivable. But what kind of life does it leave? I'm not familiar with physically destructive behaviour so I can't speak on that. But I am familiar with mental destructive behaviour. Depression, low self esteem, shame, denial, doubt, and fear.

I think your romanticising self destruction as some form of self discovery. And it could be true. But the feelings it brings about are not pleasant, at least for me. While you may discover what you think is your truths, realize that at the same time your truth is connected to the rest of this world through the connections of interpersonal relationships that surround you. What you do to yourself will invariably cause ripples throughout the rest of the world through these connections. And it works the other way as well. Your connections affect you in ways you may never know. Severing those connections, isolating your reality of truth as you know it can never be completely possible, as long as you operate within society and come in to contact with sentient beings. You may not believe that the connections are there, but even the simplest of gestures such as looking your walmart cashier in the face brings these connections about. Do you think she won't remember you? She will, and she will miss you even if she doesn't know it.

The ability to ask this question and the responsibility it incurrs. I think I have my head wrapped around it. The fact of asking this question is your ability. You have demonstrated as much. The responsibility that comes with it is the impulse of a rational mind to stop destructive behaviour. Destruction causes pain and everything about being human is to avoid pain. If you ignore this responsibility you become something other than human, and only you will know what that is. Many labels could be applied, ex. robot, monster, psycho, etc. But what matters most is what you think you are. It is your truth after all.

Life stories and who reads them. Everything you do is part of your story. From the ponderings of an intelligent mind to the most base of biological functions, it is yours and yours alone. As to who reads them? You read your own. When you look on the past and think. Or look to the future and think. Or the present as well, to share your story is brave. Whoever you let into your life is who is reading your story. From you family and friends, to the people replying to this thread. You have shared part of your story here, and I thank you.

So once again thank you. You have made me think in ways I haven't for many years. And that reminds me, I guess I do have some experience with physically self destructive behaviour, abuse of illegal drugs.

very nicely written.

 

[BrainDamage]

what about your family and friends?

Well, not everyone has them. Or, not everyone sees the benefit of acknowledging them.

I think your romanticising self destruction as some form of self discovery. And it could be true. But the feelings it brings about are not pleasant, at least for me. While you may discover what you think is your truths, realize that at the same time your truth is connected to the rest of this world through the connections of interpersonal relationships that surround you. What you do to yourself will invariably cause ripples throughout the rest of the world through these connections. And it works the other way as well. Your connections affect you in ways you may never know. Severing those connections, isolating your reality of truth as you know it can never be completely possible, as long as you operate within society and come in to contact with sentient beings. You may not believe that the connections are there, but even the simplest of gestures such as looking your walmart cashier in the face brings these connections about. Do you think she won't remember you? She will, and she will miss you even if she doesn't know it.

It has less to do with truth and more to do with reality. Are those connections real? This hinges somewhat on what the definition of "real" is. Are these connections genuine or are they simply conditioned into us as we grow up? We form these connections with people we call friends and family simply because we happened to have been born into a particular family and happened to meet them in some social setting. Objectively, they are no different from the rest of the world, and their significance to us is only fabricated through our own subjective eyes. Objectively, should we care equally about everyone in the world, or care about no one at all? This may be one of the realizations of self-destructive behaviour. So what if they raised us, went to the movies with us, helped us with our homework, and gave us birthday gifts? How do these things make that connection real or are we once again conditioned to assume that they simply do?

Ultimately, that's all irrelevant since reality is subjective. The fear of a monster under the bed is real because you believe it to be real, regardless if there actually is a monster under the bed. Are subjectively fabricated connections real? You can argue that both ways, but I doubt there's an answer. If you believe that your connections with others are real, then they are real to you. All you have to do is ignore this question and simply assume that they're real.

Furthermore, ripples along the lines that connect us exist, granted. Self-destructive behaviour may not necessarily be the act of destroying those connections, but simply ignoring these ripples, effectively resulting in the same thing. We choose to let those ripples affect us. And other people choose to let our ripples affect them. Once again we stumble over the same problem. We're supposed to be sad when a family member passes away. We're supposed to be happy when a friend has a baby... Right? Why?

The ability to ask this question and the responsibility it incurrs. I think I have my head wrapped around it. The fact of asking this question is your ability. You have demonstrated as much. The responsibility that comes with it is the impulse of a rational mind to stop destructive behaviour. Destruction causes pain and everything about being human is to avoid pain. If you ignore this responsibility you become something other than human, and only you will know what that is. Many labels could be applied, ex. robot, monster, psycho, etc. But what matters most is what you think you are. It is your truth after all.

This generalization isn't quite true. When self-destruction takes the form of self-harm, some people do this in order to experience pain. Can we thus redefine what it means to be human? As we've collaboratively established, one of the reasons we may indulge in self-destructive behaviour is for self-discovery and the search for reality.

Life stories and who reads them. Everything you do is part of your story. From the ponderings of an intelligent mind to the most base of biological functions, it is yours and yours alone. As to who reads them? You read your own. When you look on the past and think. Or look to the future and think. Or the present as well, to share your story is brave. Whoever you let into your life is who is reading your story. From you family and friends, to the people replying to this thread. You have shared part of your story here, and I thank you.

Looking back in this thread, I'm not sure if there are any elements of a story here, let alone any indication that this is my story. Sorry, this was not my analogy.

So once again thank you. You have made me think in ways I haven't for many years.

Sorry once again. Alcohol should help.

 

[fetaby]

Well, not everyone has them. Or, not everyone sees the benefit of acknowledging them. Either, or. Tomato, potato. Sometimes family is just the people that got you here.


It has less to do with truth and more to do with reality. Are those connections real? This hinges somewhat on what the definition of "real" is. Are these connections genuine or are they simply conditioned into us as we grow up? Doesn't matter.We form these connections with people we call friends and family simply because we happened to have been born into a particular family and happened to meet them in some social settingYes.. Objectively, they are no different from the rest of the world, and their significance to us is only fabricated through our own subjective eyes. Yes, again. Objectively, should we care equally about everyone in the world, or care about no one at all? That's entirely up to the individual.This may be one of the realizations of self-destructive behaviour. So what if they raised us, went to the movies with us, helped us with our homework, and gave us birthday gifts? How do these things make that connection real or are we once again conditioned to assume that they simply do? A person can put as much stock in these connections as they want. Since a persons reality is subjective, only the individual seeking to test the connections would be able to answer these question for themselves. With the same logic that those birthday gifts are real (you can hold, see, smell them), interpersonal connections are also real. Does it matter what motivates people to build and strengthens these connections? If you do find an answer, please share.

Ultimately, that's all irrelevant since reality is subjective. The fear of a monster under the bed is real because you believe it to be real, regardless if there actually is a monster under the bed. Are subjectively fabricated connections real? You can argue that both ways, but I doubt there's an answer. If you believe that your connections with others are real, then they are real to you. All you have to do is ignore this question and simply assume that they're real.

Furthermore, ripples along the lines that connect us exist, granted. Self-destructive behaviour may not necessarily be the act of destroying those connections, but simply ignoring these ripples, effectively resulting in the same thing. We choose to let those ripples affect us. And other people choose to let our ripples affect them. Once again we stumble over the same problem. Is it a problem?We're supposed to be sad when a family member passes away. We're supposed to be happy when a friend has a baby... Right? Why?Emotions. Everyone experiences them differently. I don't cry at funerals, and I'm only happy when a baby is born if the parents are willing to do the work necessary to raise the child. The advantage of living in a free thinking society. No one gets to tell you how to feel, and your free to ignore the strange looks you recieve at your descretion.

This generalization isn't quite true. When self-destruction takes the form of self-harm, some people do this in order to experience pain. Can we thus redefine what it means to be human? As we've collaboratively established, one of the reasons we may indulge in self-destructive behaviour is for self-discovery and the search for reality. No psychology degree here. I don't believe the ones in charge of the definitions would take kindly to my musings. At a biological level, a human is a human. Once the mind takes over, and produces behaviour against the grain of accepted society, who knows?

Looking back in this thread, I'm not sure if there are any elements of a story here, let alone any indication that this is my story. Sorry, this was not my analogy.Umm, the act of clicking the new thread button and typing in your OP is part of your story. You may disassociate yourself from the content, but you started it. I've played with it, and no apologies are necessary.

Sorry once again. Alcohol should help. How dare you, sir. The nerve. Why post a question posed as a suicidal tendencied individual and then distance your self away from all the replies. If this was a knowledge quest on your part, why did you at no point state that. Something like, this is not about me, or anyone I know? I spent a decent amount of time posting a well written post explaining several of the issues you seemed to not understand. And instead of thanking me for my view, you tell me to go have a drink? Oh well, can't save them all.

...................

 

[BrainDamage]

With the same logic that those birthday gifts are real (you can hold, see, smell them), interpersonal connections are also real. Does it matter what motivates people to build and strengthens these connections? If you do find an answer, please share.

My guess would be death; the fear of it. Time and time again, it seems to be the source of all our motivation.

Emotions. Everyone experiences them differently. I don't cry at funerals, and I'm only happy when a baby is born if the parents are willing to do the work necessary to raise the child. The advantage of living in a free thinking society. No one gets to tell you how to feel, and your free to ignore the strange looks you recieve at your descretion.

Well, yes. Event A usually leads to emotion A. Sometimes, event A leads to other emotions. But I'm wondering how to feel emotion A as a genuine emotion and not simply "something we do for show just because we're expected to do so when event A occurs."

Umm, the act of clicking the new thread button and typing in your OP is part of your story. You may disassociate yourself from the content, but you started it. I've played with it, and no apologies are necessary.

Oh. That's what you meant. I understand now.

How dare you, sir. The nerve. Why post a question posed as a suicidal tendencied individual and then distance your self away from all the replies. If this was a knowledge quest on your part, why did you at no point state that. Something like, this is not about me, or anyone I know? I spent a decent amount of time posting a well written post explaining several of the issues you seemed to not understand. And instead of thanking me for my view, you tell me to go have a drink?

I'm sorry. You thanked me for sharing my story here, as if you actually cared about my story. I found that very strange and chose to distance myself. Why would anyone care about any part of my life, let alone a random stranger talking to me online? It's just something I personally have a really hard time understanding.

This is more or less a "knowledge quest." Quite obviously it's been a long quest, and at no fault of your own or anyone else, I'm not expecting to find a satisfactory answer. Perhaps there is no answer, or perhaps I lack the capacity to understand it. Regardless, I thank you for your efforts. I only suggested alcohol because I thought it would help you to stop "thinking in ways you haven't for many years." I imagine that most people would feel sad if they thought about this stuff constantly.

Oh well, can't save them all.

.

 

[fetaby]

My guess would be death; the fear of it. Time and time again, it seems to be the source of all our motivation. Yes, very much so. We're born alone, we die alone. Everything in between is very much accepting this. We imagine death to be a painfull experience, because the majority of us feel a sadness and loss when a connection is permanently severed. And that is why I said, the human experience is nothing more than avoiding pain.

Well, yes. Event A usually leads to emotion A. Sometimes, event A leads to other emotions. But I'm wondering how to feel emotion A as a genuine emotion and not simply "something we do for show just because we're expected to do so when event A occurs."Event A is shared by everyone within that connection, however emotion A for one may not be the same as emotion A for another. Our bodies may be organic machines, but somehow we have gained consciousness, knowledge. Excercise? Exercise, the act of movement and muscle strain releases endorphins and testosterone. A biological function, but with a unique effect. It makes you feel good. Try it, and really examine it. Focus on how your body feels, extend your consciousness into your skin, muscles, and bones. Do not try to compare what you feel given any ol' stimulus to anyone else, humans are very much individual and unique.

Oh. That's what you meant. I understand now.

I'm sorry. You thanked me for sharing my story here, as if you actually cared about my story.Believe it or not I do. I am in control of my actions, I choose what to do with my time and fingers. Truth be told, I think your a bit of an asshole. But I can overlook that, cause if I knew you personally I'd like to believe that you would be there for me. You've got such a big fuckin' brain and you don't even know what to do with it. And that is something we both have in common. But I've got my plans, and they involve many things. Just a lil something about myself. My roomate moved out last month, we shared many household items. So I go to the Dollar General store to pick up a cheap set of pots and pans. (15 bucks by the way, can't beat that!) The cashier came out from behind the counter and hugged me. I had no idea who she was. Turns out she was an employee of mine a few years ago, we worked together for about two months. In a two month span of time, I made enough of an impression on this woman that she felt comfortable enough to hug me. And I couldn't even remember her name. That's just the kind of guy I am. I don't try to fight it, what would be the point. I've been there and done that and it landed me in a psych ward for two weeks. Lifes to short. I found that very strange and chose to distance myself. Why would anyone care about any part of my life, let alone a random stranger talking to me online? It's just something I personally have a really hard time understanding. Caution is a good, normal response. And personally I don't care if you can understand it or not. (but I know you can) I'm dropping jewels on ya, for karma's sake. And if in the end, I can call you my friend that's just icing on the cake. Your interesting, and stimulating. You have much to give this world.

This is more or less a "knowledge quest." Quite obviously it's been a long quest, and at no fault of your own or anyone else, I'm not expecting to find a satisfactory answer. Perhaps there is no answer, or perhaps I lack the capacity to understand it. Doubting yourself? Not a good look. You have the insight of a clinical psychologist. And the writing skills of a junior in college. And a brain that's prolly bigger than mine. And how old are you? late teens, early twenties? Regardless, I thank you for your efforts. Now was that so hard? And your thanks is appreciated, deeply. I only suggested alcohol because I thought it would help you to stop "thinking in ways you haven't for many years." But why would I want too, it's very much an exercise in stretching. There was a time in my life that I used illegal drugs to get in to the head space we're in now. And that was what ended me up in a psych ward. Clean and sober, I can pull back when it gets too damn heavy. I've matured since then, at least I'd like to think I have. I imagine that most people would feel sad if they thought about this stuff constantly. You're right, most people would, but if there is one thing that I've learned in my 30 years is that there is no other person in this world like me. And I wouldn't have it any other way, sucka.

.

So why did I post in this thread in the first place? When I saw the title" self destructive behaviour." It brought back a memory. When I was in the psych ward, I brought a journal. It was confiscated, and returned to me when I left. The psychologists poured over my journal and used little plastic tags to mark particular pages and passages. On the front cover, was a picture of a man sitting in a chair. Surrounding him was about 25 hands all holding guns all pointing at his face. To me, it was just a funny picture, he had the biggest OH SHIT! expression on his face. When the journal was returned, I looked at the plastic tags, they were color coded. There were many red ones, next to anything that could be misconstrued as potentially "self-destructive". And they didn't even bother to ask. So I thought I would do one better, and do what they didn't. Ask. So, thank you, once again.

And if you doubt my sincerity, or intentions. Look through my posts in every other thread i've ever left a post. Then judge for yourself. Just do me a favor next time, just ask.

 

[BrainDamage]

But I can overlook that, cause if I knew you personally I'd like to believe that you would be there for me.

I...

And if you doubt my sincerity, or intentions. Look through my posts in every other thread i've ever left a post. Then judge for yourself.

I don't doubt that you believe in your sincerity and intentions. Congratulations on reaching this point.

 

[fetaby]

I... Nothing? Or something? Speak your mind, post it here or if you prefer, pm. Or if there's nothing to say, this is appropriate...

I don't doubt that you believe in your sincerity and intentions. Congratulations on reaching this point.

Thank you. I thought I saw some similarities between the two of us. I could have made a mistake. It wasn't my original intent to get as involved in this thread as I have. But do I regret it? Nah, it's just a thing. But I do not want to hijack your thread any further. If this is a knowledge quest on your part, I believe I have provided enough of my views, experiences, and life story here. If you have a question that you think I(or anyone else) can answer please take the box. This has been fun, BrainDamage. I look forward to discussing things with you again at some point.