PLEASE READ: To register, turn off your VPN (iPhone users- disable iCloud); you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.
Well, I can pretend to "be there for you" as much as it's required from me to be marginally functional in society. Effectively, you won't be able to tell the difference.I...Nothing? Or something? Speak your mind, post it here or if you prefer, pm. Or if there's nothing to say, this is appropriate...
And that is exactly as it should be. The nature of friendship, acquaintace, connections. You can only control you're own actions, if we we're in the RW I'd never be able to tell what you truly think about me unless you stated it. And even then depending on context, history, and several other factors, I would still have doubt. But to accept a person's friendship, requires a lil faith, and a leap. It's not so much a question of emotional damage, or a scarred persona. It's very much the extent of your involvement. If my car was stuck in a ditch, would you help me? If I needed 5 bucks, would you give it to me? IF you're not able to fully delve into the realms of human emotion, that is none of my business. What is my business is how you treat me, and how you respect our connection. It's very much a matter of perspective. I couldn't ask you how you feel. I would never be able to grasp all that entails. The same goes for you. Think this, if you will, whatever race you are, how do you think your life would be different if you were another race. Or if you're male, how do you think your life would be different if you were female. It may surprise you that, while you can theroize all day long on the differences, the point is that if any of it were different, you would no longer be you. Celebrate the individual, celebrate yourself. Until you accept yourself as you are, and change any qualities you want to change, you will never feel like you are making substantial connections outside of yourself. 
"Real world." Oh the irony.
"Faith" in this case seems synonymous with "ignore the fact that the other person may only be putting up an act and couldn't care less about you." How do you learn to do this? By no longer valuing reality?
What I take out of this is that in order to function, you have to live for others and what they expect of you, and it doesn't matter what your own feelings and wants are. Though we "control our own actions," ultimately, external factors determine how we act.
Who are you? How do you know that's who you really are?Think this, if you will, whatever race you are, how do you think your life would be different if you were another race. Or if you're male, how do you think your life would be different if you were female. It may surprise you that, while you can theroize all day long on the differences, the point is that if any of it were different, you would no longer be you. Celebrate the individual, celebrate yourself. Until you accept yourself as you are, and change any qualities you want to change, you will never feel like you are making substantial connections outside of yourself.
Sorry for the rant, it was bound to happen.
Nevermind. The answer to this will most likely be "whoever you want to be," or "whoever you choose to be." Then, I'll ask "how do we determine what we want" and "where do we get the motiviation to want" and "are we the ones choosing who we want to be or are we simply not aware that it's other people who are making the choice for us?" And then we come back full circle when we establish that motivation comes from a fear of death, and I question how to develop a fear of death, and I assert that our lives are controlled by others and none of our wants, desires, and choices are truly ours.
So how do I know who I am? I look at my past, and present. I see the depths of my lows, and the heights of my highs. I place weight on the threads of my connections, I test them regularly. But how do I know? I take my reality and run with it. I choose to carry it all with me, and flash it at folks when ever I choose. It takes some by surprise, but I wouldn't have it any other way. 
If you don't have it, why go trying to look for it? It's coming one way or another, why purposefully seek out and live under fear? The impression I got from the haulocaust victims, being gay in the south, and my own personal life suggests that a life lived in fear is not a life worth living.
So who am I? I am myself. Within the context of my various connections? I am the son. I am the uncle. I am the brother. I am the friend. To some, I am the enemy. To many I am the boss. To less I am the employee. To my dog, I am alpha. To one man, I'm the boyfriend. To another, the ex. But is that who I am, yes. These connections are real. Is that what I think I am? Yes, and no. I am the student. I am the selfish lover. I am the untrustworthy friend. I am the hopeful ally. I am the giver.
I am my past, I am my present. I look forward to becoming my future.
And to answer your last question. Because I said so.
I was asking myself those very questions since the age of 8. I was raised christian, but the only tennants I follow are the golden rule, and most of the commandments. I twisted away from myself through puberty, being gay in a hetero world does not mesh. I began a double life, the outside loner, the inside gay teen. I graduate H.S. and move off to college, and imm. merge the two and change the loner to the life of the party. In comes drugs, out goes reality. I flunk out of college and separtate my self into two again. The outside, the loser. The inside, the beast. And on it goes until the beast takes over, he comes to the surface. He is the manifestation of illegal drugs and a bipolar disorder. He is a schizophrenic episode. He had his fifteen minutes of fame and is now locked deep within my psyche. He hasn't broken out since, I made the bars to his cage strong, and I reinforce them everyday. But I can still hear him. He serves as a good reminder that I never want him loose again. So ask me if I want another drink?
Do you have a more detailed instruction manual for this?
Not exactly. We are being controlled if we allow ourselves to be controlled. We are fully in control of ourselves when we no longer allow ourselves to feel those external "ripples." What's left is our true selves, not a tainted mosaic of everything that has rubbed off on us from the events we've encountered. What's left is our true intentions and our actions are influenced only by ourselves. The problem? When everything is stripped down, the "true self" doesn't seem to exist and we are led to the conclusion that we're only shattered mirrors mimicking the thoughts and actions of everyone and everything we've encountered in our lives thus far; a more dysphemistic approach to the idea that "we're the sum of all our life experiences." So, "I am myself." Is this still true? Would you be satisfied with the idea that individuality doesn't exist and that "I am a combination of other people" would be a better answer to "Who are you?"
Ok. You're telling me this hoping or assuming that I care about your feelings enough not to purposely seek out a near death experience. You're telling me this because you think we're colleagues and thus you "care" about me. In an exchange such as this, I can't imagine that people wouldn't be wondering just how much genuine sincerity and selflessness transpired. But the "correct" approach to this would be me seeing, then feeling your concern, then reciprocating that concern by not making you cry. This experience then becomes a "real" building block for friendship...am I right? Oh how droll.
Motivation, right? This is the fear that drives our desire to live, the very reason people do anything. Yes, it manifests itself in other forms. But one cannot live (in a more holistic sense of the word) without fearing death. Thus, it follows that when one eliminates that fear, that person can no longer live.
- Stop being so analytical of other people's intentions,Never, fully understand the possibility of various intentions and act accordingly, some will smile in your face and stab your back. be ignorant, Only if it suits. You? It's not possible, as you are far from ignorant. Tell oneself something repeatedly Only if they are hard of hearing, or you like repeating yourself ad nauseum until one believes it,believe it or not, your choice. But know that is how I believe the majority of humans do it. and just do it.Or don't, again your choice. Why does it seem that people have such an easy time pulling the veil over their own eyes? Because to them it doesn't exist. There is no veil, it is their reality. They swim easily through society with nary a thought deeper than how they are going to get their next fix, whatever that may be. It sounds as ludicrous as trying to tickle yourself. Can you not? Even the bottoms of your feet?
And this is the difference, you are not like them. You are uniquely your own. It's good that you appear to balk at the idea. It might mean you could enlighten others with your own brand of reality. If they would give you the time of day, that is. If you would care to do so.
- Creating things out of abolutely nothing and then attaching meaning to them. I still don't see how this ability comes so naturally to people.
Exactly, at this point it becomes an entity of your consciousness to do with what you will.
- Testing your threads? If the tension's high enough, all threads will snap, including the ones that are supposed to be the strongest (the life-long ones with family members for example).Possibly, but some threads will never break. Your mother will always be your mother, regardless of the tension or breakage of the superficial ties. She may hate you, and you the same. Or maybe just not understand each other. But she will always be your mother. That tie can not be broken. Why do you think so many place such stock in family values, a strong familiar unit? They realize these threads exist, regardless of how we feel about them. And I said it before, sometimes family is just the people that got you here. Then again, we created these threads out of nothing, and once we realize this, we don't need to break them, we can pass our hands right through them.
Do you have a more detailed instruction manual for this? Did you try the "exercise" exercise? If so how did it make you feel? Do you have a favorite food? Do you have a favorite color? What do you find pleasure in, ask yourself why? How did you learn you like something? It may have come from an external source, does this make it less valid? No. Likes become favorites, favorites become desires, desires become wants, wants could turn into needs under stress.
Not exactly. We are being controlled if we allow ourselves to be controlled.Agree. We are fully in control of ourselves when we no longer allow ourselves to feel those external "ripples." Romanticising again? You will feel regardless. I don't know what you will feel but you will. You will only be in complete control if you acknowledge the influences/ ripples and make actions/ decisions, be that involvement or disassociation. You may well be on a higher plane of intellect but in this world eq is as powerfull if not more so than iq. To not allow yourself to feel the ripples is just as big a veil as the one you think covers the eyes of everyone else. You ever seen the last man alive? He finds himself alone in the world with no external ripples, he relishes in this. He looks forward to expanding his knowledge by reading books. In his haste to the library he stumbles and breaks his glasses. Only then does it occur to him that he is very much dependant on the ripples. Who will fix his glasses now? The Twilight Zone. What's left is our true selves, not a tainted mosaic of everything that has rubbed off on us from the events we've encountered.Taint as in stained as in dirty? Yes? We are very much our failings as well as our blessings. And if you find that perfect being, introduce me to 'em. What's left is our true intentions and our actions are influenced only by ourselves.Or as I like to call it, self absorbed past selfishness. The problem? When everything is stripped down, the "true self" doesn't seem to exist and we are led to the conclusion If your true self doesn't exist, who is asking about the problem? You exist. that we're only shattered mirrors mimicking the thoughts and actions of everyone and everything we've encountered in our lives thus far;And shattered mirrors is appropriate imagery of one who romanticises destruction. It's easy to cut yourself with the edges. I'd like to think of it as a stained glass window. The view from the connections in your life comprising the different shapes and colors. All pieced together to form a bigger picture of your self. Something that is greater than the sum of it's parts. With time and experience and knowledge holding it all in place. a more dysphemistic approach to the idea that "we're the sum of all our life experiences." Yes very much so. But keep in mind that the mirror is not broken. It may be broken in your mind, but the people you are connected to cannot see the cracks. They very much define who you are in relation to themselvesSo, "I am myself." Is this still true? Yup.Would you be satisfied with the idea that individuality doesn't exist Nope.and that "I am a combination of other people" would be a better answerWell, biologically it's true. Two halves of dna coming together and creating one. to "Who are you?"If I am not me, who am I? Would I then be freed to be whoever I want to be. Could I be you? Am I you? Yes/no?
Ok. You're telling me this hoping or assuming that I care about your feelings enough not to purposely seek out a near death experience. You wish.
Moreover, I think this is all speculation.Or is it? Crying over my near death experience?No, over your actual death. Fear of death instilled by a near death experience? Hmm
I've been in over a dozen car wrecks, some caused by me.Most caused by others. The one that brought me closest to death? Entering the expressway going about 80 mph, clipped the front of a car and was sent into a spin. Bounced off the pilons like a pinball. I wasn't scared, even with the oncoming traffic zipping by at 75-80 mph. It was just a thing, I could have died very easily. But I did not. The experience didn't change anything.
Motivation, right? This is the fear that drives our desire to live, the very reason people do anything.For some. Yes, it manifests itself in other forms. But one cannot live (in a more holistic sense of the word) without fearing death.And again, for some. Thus, it follows that when one eliminates that fear, that person can no longer live.
Precisely. People usually don't see this veil. But achieving this state is more than just making the choice to do so.
I don't have a brand of reality to offer. Reality may be nothing; reality may be whatever we choose to believe. Reality is subjective, as we've established, but the trick is to convince oneself of one or the other. Limbo is what I offer; an inability to pull the veil over one's eyes to convince oneself that there's nothing or that the world is full of meaning.
Yes, technically, she's the one who gave birth to me. But this isn't a "thread"; it's a definition, much like "I have a fourth cousin that lives in Iceland, whom I've never met." We would share a set of great-great-great grandparents, but the "thread" between us will once again need to be created out of nothing. Same for "mother"-the "thread," right?
And what happens when we introduce anhedonia into the mix?
...To allow oneself to feel those ripples only when one is sure that these ripples and one's feelings are really real. Not possible, right? Reality is dependent on one's own perceptions, thus one can never be sure if this is truly real (ie...how do you know that you're not dreaming right now?) It seems like some sort of veil needs to be pulled down to get anywhere. Pulling one down leads to meaning and life. Pulling another down leads to nothingness and suicide. Again, the inability to do this, always aware that there may be a veil in front of our faces, it's stifling. Yes, we can all make a "choice" to pull down one or the other, but lacking the ability to actually pull it down and believe in the brand of reality that the veil offers, we can't go any further.
...I've seen parodies of it. He thinks that books are not a source of external ripples?
Not really. Tainted by something foreign, not necessarily dirty. In the quest to find one's true self, you subtract away the parts that are reflections of other people. Are you persistent because that's your true self or is it because your parents raised you to be persistent. Are you helpful because you helped an old lady across the street or did you only do that because society expects it of you? As the products of conditioning, I was asking if there really is a "true self," as I understand what "true self" to be.
It's just an attempt to discover our true selves. Besides, it should come as no surprise that people are selfish. Even altruistic acts are simply things we do so that we ourselves can feel warm and fuzzy inside. It seems like true selflessness can only be achieved when you no longer care about other people. You volunteer with kids diagnosed with cancer not because you care about them and feel good about yourself by helping them; that's benefiting yourself. The truly selfless person couldn't give a damn about those kids and simply helps them because society expects it. The only ones who benefit are the kids. And don't worry. I don't value selflessness.
The mirror exists. Okay...You see, I know your intention was to show me that I exist. And yet I start thinking that once again, it is a reflection that's asking about the problem.
And once again, we need the power to create that extra material out of nothing.
You can be whoever you believe me to be.
So why tell me this if you knew it wouldn't work?
I don't get it.
Did I? I'm sorry. What's "care what others think" supposed to feel like again?
Correct as in "what society usually expects of people in exchanges such as that one." Indifference is easier than respect, isn't it?
Again, I don't doubt that you don't see a veil.
So the fear of death is necessary to live, right? To realize that "our time here is short." After acquiring the fear of death, one needs to master it and so forth. So, step one, learning to fear death... So are near-death experiences supposed to teach this or not? How many must one experience? How does one go about experiencing them? Instead of waiting for a freak accident, would the right way simply be to attempt suicide?
Yes. What can be funnier than this... ...I need alcohol.
Of course not. I've externalized it as well.
Precisely. People usually don't see this veil. But achieving this state is more than just making the choice to do so. You're right. Some people have an easy go of it. They swim easily. To be aware of it, one is faced with the decision to "buy in to it" or "turn their back on it". Often times, that decision is made half a dozen times a day. Does it make you uncomfortable? Do you feel pressure?
I don't have a brand of reality to offer. Reality may be nothing; reality may be whatever we choose to believe. Reality is subjective, as we've established, but the trick is to convince oneself of one or the other. Limbo is what I offer; an inability to pull the veil over one's eyes to convince oneself that there's nothing or that the world is full of meaning. I don't see this as a bad thing. Limbo. It would allow an individual to subscribe to whatever they want. The ability to see it, anlyze it, determine if internal or external factors sway your decision, this appears to be a great vantage point. If you truly want to know yourself.
Yes, technically, she's the one who gave birth to me. But this isn't a "thread"; it's a definition, much like "I have a fourth cousin that lives in Iceland, whom I've never met." We would share a set of great-great-great grandparents, but the "thread" between us will once again need to be created out of nothing. Same for "mother"-the "thread," right? A definition fleshed out thousands of years ago. Try shitting out a watermellon. Tell me you won't feel anything. Pain is real, even anhedoniacs feel it.
And what happens when we introduce anhedonia into the mix? Even though that individual doesn't feel like most others, they still have the ability to know that is not how others bodies work. With this, they can then choose to mimic society and take comfort that their actions will appear to be appropriate. It may not be fulfilling as one would hope. But life goes on.
...To allow oneself to feel those ripples only when one is sure that these ripples and one's feelings are really real. Not possible, right? Reality is dependent on one's own perceptions, thus one can never be sure if this is truly real (ie...how do you know that you're not dreaming right now?) It seems like some sort of veil needs to be pulled down to get anywhere. Pulling one down leads to meaning and life. Pulling another down leads to nothingness and suicide. Again, the inability to do this, always aware that there may be a veil in front of our faces, it's stifling. Or liberating. Just depends on the individual.Yes, we can all make a "choice" to pull down one or the other, but lacking the ability to actually pull it down and believe in the brand of reality that the veil offers, we can't go any further.Optimism/pessimism. If neither one appeals, what would a person do? We never lose the ability to do what we want for whatever reason we want, with no one to judge us for our actions but ourselves. Why bother with that? Why judge yourself?
...I've seen parodies of it. Family Guy? He thinks that books are not a source of external ripples?
Not really. Tainted by something foreign, not necessarily dirty. In the quest to find one's true self, you subtract away the parts that are reflections of other people. Are you persistent because that's your true self or is it because your parents raised you to be persistent. Are you helpful because you helped an old lady across the street or did you only do that because society expects it of you? As the products of conditioning, I was asking if there really is a "true self," as I understand what "true self" to be. Honestly, I tend to not question myself and if I exist. The fact that my body exists is enough for me.
It's just an attempt to discover our true selves. Besides, it should come as no surprise that people are selfish. Even altruistic acts are simply things we do so that we ourselves can feel warm and fuzzy inside. I thought an altruistic act was only altruistic if those feelings of warm and fuzzy weren't the motivating factor. Have you never done anything just because it was the "right" thing to do? It seems like true selflessness can only be achieved when you no longer care about other people.No. True selflessness would be to care more about others than yourself. Putting yourself into a position of disadvantage for the benefit of another. You volunteer with kids diagnosed with cancer not because you care about them and feel good about yourself by helping them; that's benefiting yourself. The truly selfless person couldn't give a damn about those kids and simply helps them because society expects it. No. A truly selfless person only cares about those cancer kids. And the actions are done entirely for the kids.The only ones who benefit are the kids. And don't worry. I don't value selflessness. Please don't confuse selfless and selfish. They are two distinctly different things.
The mirror exists. Okay...You see, I know your intention was to show me that I exist. And yet I start thinking that once again, it is a reflection that's asking about the problem. A reflection of what exactly?
And once again, we need the power to create that extra material out of nothing. No, we don't. This material is being generated constantly, through interaction, the passage of time, and the gaining of knowledge and experience. You choose what to do with it. Regardless of whether or not you know yourself completely or not, you still choose what to do with it all.
You can be whoever you believe me to be.
So why tell me this if you knew it wouldn't work? Well, it worked for me.
I don't get it. If you truly do not, I am the one who is at a loss.
Did I? I'm sorry. What's "care what others think" supposed to feel like again? Don't apologize. You are entitled to your thoughts and feelings.
Correct as in "what society usually expects of people in exchanges such as that one." Indifference is easier than respect, isn't it? Yes. I believe so.
Again, I don't doubt that you don't see a veil. So here it is. Do you accept my invitation of friendship?
So the fear of death is necessary to live, right? To realize that "our time here is short." After acquiring the fear of death, one needs to master it and so forth. So, step one, learning to fear death... So are near-death experiences supposed to teach this or not? It may, or may not. Just depends on the individual and how much they value their own life. How many must one experience? How does one go about experiencing them? Instead of waiting for a freak accident, would the right way simply be to attempt suicide? The easiest way is to leave town for 2 days. Disappear. Leave no trace. Sever all communication with your connections. Come back, and reflect on how you are recieved upon your homecoming. The absence of your physical being would be the same. And just for the record, I will not condone suicide. Nor will I take any responsibility for your actions.
Yes. What can be funnier than this... ...I need alcohol. I'll drink with ya, but I'll have some coffee instead.
Of course not. I've externalized it as well.I was gonna laugh. But then I asked myself if you are hurting yourself as a result of all this. I wouldn't want that for you. We have never met. I don't know you. You remind me of a guy I met about 4 years ago. He was 19, he constantly questioned everything and the motivation behind things. He thought he had an answer for everything. We'd debate. He is not a happy person. He uses illegal drugs. I worry about him, but know that until he decides to change, there is nothing I can really do to help him. Many of the things I could do would only enable him to continue in his destructive behaviour. I did enjoy our interactions. I wish him well. I wish you nothing but the best.
If this is expected of me, sure. But then again, you know that I couldn't care less and there's a whole forum full of people to pander to your needs. They will actually feel happy for you (as far as you can tell), and you in turn will genuinely feel happy that they're ostensibly happy for you.Nope, I'm not that naive. And yet you asked me for congratulations. Are you simply testing how tightly that veil can be pulled down? Or to toy with me like an inanimate object?
Congratulations.
See? Yet another selfless act. As long as I feed into other people's illusions to make them happy, nothing else matters.
Half a dozen times a day. Isn't that tiring? There must be some unseen benefit for people to invest in this.
This whole time I've been saying that this state of limbo offers no solid ground on which to stand, no objective reference point. Thus, it's seemingly impossible to sort out our influences and determine our true selves. I don't see how you arrived at your conclusion.
Yes. Pain exists...either as a seperate entity or as another fabrication of the mind. But what does it have to do with anhedonia?
Okay.
I think so.
Okay
Hmm? When are those warm and fuzzy feelings not the motivating factor? Doing the "right" thing is what I'm talking about; what society considers to be the "right" thing. Help the homeless, donate to cancer, tutor kids from low-income families. You either do these things to benefit yourself (feeling warm and fuzzy and a sense of accomplishment...or something to pad your résumé with), or you help them out selflessly to appease society (not caring in the least about these people, thus not getting any sort of personal benefit from it.)
Really? The truly selfless person doesn't benefit from warm feelings of accomplishment?
Of someone else. Of yet another life experience that has rubbed off on me.
*Shrugs* You tell me.
So again, there must be some unseen benefit that drives people to choose respect over indifference...
If you want.
Okay...and then?
That's fine. You weren't asked to.
I remind you of him?
So, you had to cut yourself off from him, right?
Yes. I did it because you asked for it. But no, it's not that I don't "want" to give them to you. So, what now?I don't want your congratulations if you don't want to give them to me. Why did you? I have enough friends and family to bolster my feelings of self worth. I asked for congratulations from you because I respect you. If you did so simply because I asked you to, take it back. Just let me down gently, I've got a tender heart.
...
Are you asking one question worded two different ways or two separate questions? What defines a friend? What do you mean by comfortable? And is it necessary to be comfortable in order to confide in someone?
Interesting... strength...birthday said:
Half a dozen times a day. Isn't that tiring? There must be some unseen benefit for people to invest in this.Hold up, that benefit is many different things to as many different people. All that should matter to you right now, is what the benefit is to you. How it will effect you. Will it help you, will it harm you? And if you get tired of it, there is no shame in vegging out. It's necessary to decompress from time to time.
This whole time I've been saying that this state of limbo offers no solid ground on which to stand, no objective reference point. Thus, it's seemingly impossible to sort out our influences and determine our true selves. I don't see how you arrived at your conclusion. easy enough, it's only when you have nothing do you recognize the value of something. You think you're lost in a void, that you are but a reflection of the people in your life, you have no idea if you are really you. In the end it doesn't matter. We will not know the entire truth until we are dead, and once that happens we can't bring that information back and live life in a way that information says is best, the most fulfilling. The only solution is to accept that we will never know it all, and trust that we will always know enough to make our lives whatever we choose them to be.
Yes. Pain exists...either as a seperate entity or as another fabrication of the mind. But what does it have to do with anhedonia? This is the word I had to look up. Correct me if I'm wrong. An anhedoniac can feel physical pain and then develop an association that pain is bad. They can also sense they are different and that different is often times seen as bad. They can use this knowledge as a spring board to live a life that is as well adjusted as is possible. They will never know true happiness as you or I may experience it. But they can know it exists, and in that there is hope.
Okay.
I think so.
Okay
Hmm? When are those warm and fuzzy feelings not the motivating factor? Doing the "right" thing is what I'm talking about; what society considers to be the "right" thing. Help the homeless, donate to cancer, tutor kids from low-income families. You either do these things to benefit yourself (feeling warm and fuzzy and a sense of accomplishment...or something to pad your résumé with), or you help them out selflessly to appease society (not caring in the least about these people, thus not getting any sort of personal benefit from it.)
Really? The truly selfless person doesn't benefit from warm feelings of accomplishment?
The may feel the affects of their actions, and they are not held to be above feeling them. But those feelings they get are not what motivates their actions. They very much only want to make those childrens lives easier, and to help them ease their pains. Why do they do it? I don't know, but I do feel better knowing there are people in the world like this.
Of someone else. Of yet another life experience that has rubbed off on me. So you've felt the rub. And who is it that is feeling that rub? Is it just another rub? You can chase those all the way back to the moment you were conceived, and your parents we're rubbing together to bring you here.
*Shrugs* You tell me.
So again, there must be some unseen benefit that drives people to choose respect over indifference... Nah, it's the simplest thing actually. In order to gain respect. You have to give it, earn it. It's the by product of a righteous attitude. Respect is what validates us, it is the currency of friendship.
If you want. Yes I do want that. Do you?
Okay...and then? Examine how your absence affected the individuals you know, your connections. Do you see they are upset, or are they dancing in the streets? How does that make you feel. What do you want to do about how they feel? There is no right or wrong answers here. But these are the things that color who we are.
That's fine. You weren't asked to. Just throwin that out. No offense.
I remind you of him? Well you did, not so much now.
So, you had to cut yourself off from him, right? No, didn't have to. Wanted to. I weighed the benefits, and disadvantages of remaining a close friend to him. I determined that I would end up giving out way more than I would ever recieve. I don't believe that would be a fair exchange, espescially considering the value I put on myself. Until he decides that he is worthy, I will remain to be his friend. But the level of closeness and interactioin must remain somewhat superficial. I will always wish him well, I believe him to be of good character. But I know I am somewhat powerless to change his situations.
Yes. I did it because you asked for it. But no, it's not that I don't "want" to give them to you. So, what now? We ask ourselves what happened? and why? If it is the case that you do "want" to give them to me, I will ask you why? Be honest, and earn some of my respect. Lie and earn some of my respect. But either way you will know your truth. And what that means to you, and if you like what you've found. And from there you decide what you want to do about it.
...
Congratulations Thank you.
...
Are you asking one question worded two different ways or two separate questions? What defines a friend? What do you mean by comfortable? And is it necessary to be comfortable in order to confide in someone?
I'm asking two questions that are very similar. A friend to me may not be what you conisder a friend. Best to define that for yourself. With most people a certain level of comfort is required for them to drop their sheilds and barriers, to allow another to see into the inner workings of their mind. It is not necessary for a person to be comfortable to allow another into their life story. I've given freely of myself throughout these posts, and that is not altruism as I did get my kicks here and there. But don't think I didn't notice you didn't answer my questions.
Interesting... strength...
That's the question. Why put up a front in the first place if it takes so much effort to do so? What can that benefit be?
Accept=Ignore? Let's occupy ourselves with other inane things so we don't have to think about this anymore.
Not really. Anhedonia [stem-hedonism]~lack of pleasure or of the capacity to experience it.
...Everything has a reason. Yes, they may want to make a difference. But we all know that people are selfish. If that was the only reason, altruism wouldn't exist. People need to personally benefit from their actions. So, someone who doesn't care about anyone else yet still volunteers his/her time to make these kids' lives easier because society expects it...isn't this person even more selfless than your version of the truly selfless person?
But the question was, why choose respect?
I don't know
Wait...why should I care about their reactions to my absence again?
Selfishness?
I don't wish you well nor do I wish anything bad. Indifference.
What about those who divulge their deepest secrets to complete strangers in a psychiatrist's office? Comfort comes in the form of (pseudo-)confidentiality instead of familiarity, right? But seriously, what's comfort supposed to feel like? What's there to confide? Who in the right mind would voluntarily listen? Your original question was:
I don't know how to answer the first one. If we re-worded it to "Do other people think that I have friends?" the answer would probably be no. The answer to the second one: No, I don't need to feel "comfortable" to confide what little I have to confide.
Whatever I "want" them to be, right?
That's the question. Why put up a front in the first place if it takes so much effort to do so? What can that benefit be?
How is it a front if the efforts of self destructive behaviour, or the intimate learning of ones truth is the basis of how these interactions are being dealt with? When you reach the core of yourself, and there is nothing but death left. There is no effort in realizing if something is hurting you, or helping you. A.K.A the benefits.
Accept=Ignore? Let's occupy ourselves with other inane things so we don't have to think about this anymore.
It could be said. To say you ignore something, you would have to acknowledge it's presence. Other wise you will just be ignorant, but you aren't, are you? It's the difference between running away, and running towards. The action is the same, the destination is the same, but the intent is where it's at.
Not really. Anhedonia [stem-hedonism]~lack of pleasure or of the capacity to experience it....
But give these folks some credit, there brain doesn't work properly, but it still works. They recognise that they are not like most other people, it does not mean they can't live fulfilling lives. So I'll say it again, they may not experience pleasure. But the sure in the hell experience pain. But you are right about one thing here, the joy I feel when I feel hope will never be felt by an anhedoniac.
Everything has a reason. Yes, they may want to make a difference. But we all know that people are selfish. If that was the only reason, altruism wouldn't exist. People need to personally benefit from their actions. So, someone who doesn't care about anyone else yet still volunteers his/her time to make these kids' lives easier because society expects it...isn't this person even more selfless than your version of the truly selfless person?
Yes, the person you paint is more something. But your starting to make wide statements here. I do not know that all people are selfish. I may suspect it but I will never know. And only some people need to personally benefit from their actions. I think these people are needing something in their life, so I will not begrudge them their selfishly begotten benefits. And flawed logic, someone who doesn't care about anyone else would never volunteer for anything, much less because society expects them too. That kinda goes in with the whole not caring schtick.
But the question was, why choose respect?
Once again, I can't speak for everyone, but I choose to give respect because I want it in return. I want everthing that respect entails. It may be that is what society is telling me to want, but from my own personal experience. Some times society gets something right. Golden rule is golden.
I don't know
Well, let me know if you ever do know. Yes?
Wait...why should I care about their reactions to my absence again?
And here you go gettin all emotional again.
Selfishness?
No, self preservation. There is only so much of myself. I choose not to waste it whenever possible. Is that selfish? Maybe, depends on your perspective, but since my reality is my subjective view. I did what I felt was best. Tadaa, it's tough choice, but that's the line we walk.
I don't wish you well nor do I wish anything bad. Indifference.
It was not indifference that answered my question. Then or now. Here, on this forum? Indifference would be the absence of typed words.... blah.
What about those who divulge their deepest secrets to complete strangers in a psychiatrist's office? Once again, comfort is not necessary in order to share your life's story. Seriously, do you read what I write to you? You just regurgitated an actual instance of the situation I just described. What was the point of that? BTW, those people confessing their deepest secrets to the head shrinkers, they are nine times out of ten only saying what they feel like they can get away with not saying. If the doc is any good, he can read between da lines. Comfort comes in the form of (pseudo-)confidentiality instead of familiarity, right?If that's what you need. But seriously, what's comfort supposed to feel like? Hot chocolate. That's the best way I can describe it. Warm, smooth, delicious, filling, sweet. What's there to confide? I don't know, but something tells me you got a good story or two to tell. Who in the right mind would voluntarily listen? Um, yeah.Your original question was:
I don't know how to answer the first one. If we re-worded it to "Do other people think that I have friends?" the answer would probably be no.See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Why does it matter if other people think you have friends or not. Do you feel, yeah I said it, feel like there is a person in this world that would be willing to call you a friend regardless of their intent, selfish or not? The answer to the second one: No, I don't need to feel "comfortable" to confide what little I have to confide. Well then, would you? Here? In a pm? If yes, feel free to do so.
Whatever I "want" them to be, right?
You really are amazing..
Excuse me while I go wander the streets. Maybe I'll confide in some homeless guy.
I'm not following.
Okay. The veil thing again. Close our eyes and somehow make the world go away. Live in a world we fabricate for ourselves. I just have to be sure that this is truly what's required to live...
Okay. Back to the original question:
Not "volunteer." "Coerced, conditioned, raised" to do so. It ties back into the notion that people are products of conditioning, their actions completely under the influence of others, their "true voice" expressing their "true intentions" cannot be found. Almost as if they were empty shells "forced" to live.
Wanting respect...
Well, I'm pretty sure more self-destructive behaviours exist. But are you saying that one's value is dependent on other people and those connections formed in between? It seems to make sense. Value is a human construct. Another one of those things we pull out of the air.
People only do things if personal benefit outweighs the benefit that the other person receives. Quite a handy "selfishness gauge," eh?
I think it was the need for an answer. I may have mentioned it earlier.
"Do you have anyone that you can feel comfortable confiding in? " was your question though. You sort of implied that comfort is necessary to confide in someone. Then you said it wasn't necessary.
Oh
Why is it that people listen to stories that have nothing to do with them? The stimulation of new experiences? The knowledge that there are people whose lives suck more than theirs? Besides, there are plenty of "I want to come out of the closet", "I want a boyfriend", "I broke up with my boyfriend" stories here. Clearly the most pressing problems in life. Can't you get your fix there? It's better than anything I have to offer.
Do I feel like there's someone who would call me a friend? I don't feel a need for pity. I thought your question was "do I feel like I can call someone else a friend?" Worded this way, I'd have to say no. But don't we need to answer both questions affirmatively and truthfully for it to qualify as a true friendship? Besides, I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything to deserve anyone's friendship.
I "think" I'll stick with my original answer. If I wanted, my strengths could be anything. Since I don't feel the need to want, my strengths are nothing.
Nah, most of them are just like anyone else but with a higher prevalence of drugs, alcohol, and mental health problems. They're the ones with stories to tell, I'd imagine.
Care to share what they say?I'm not following.
At this point in da game, I do not know if I can lead you to da pool any more. If you're lost, tell me where you left off, I might be able to back the truck up and give you a lift.
Okay. The veil thing again. Close our eyes and somehow make the world go away. Live in a world we fabricate for ourselves. I just have to be sure that this is truly what's required to live...Dude, if that's what you want to believe is true, that is what will be true, subjective realities and all, been there, c'mon. And never close your eyes, at this point your not capable without a lobotomy.
Okay. Back to the original question:
Pattern recognition and learned behaviours, pavlovian responses, move on already? If not that's cool too.
Not "volunteer." "Coerced, conditioned, raised" to do so. It ties back into the notion that people are products of conditioning, their actions completely under the influence of others, their "true voice" expressing their "true intentions" cannot be found. Almost as if they were empty shells "forced" to live.
Wanting respect... Come on pick up the pace. Quit procrastinating. To be aware of the conditioned state, would allow a person to choose how they want to react to this upon discovery. It's the shock of growing up. The loss of innocence. Pay attention.
Well, I'm pretty sure more self-destructive behaviours exist. But are you saying that one's value is dependent on other people and those connections formed in between? It seems to make sense. Value is a human construct. Another one of those things we pull out of the air. It is only dependant if the individual places stock in this scenario. Ever met someone who "marches to the beat of a different drummer"? Or do you know "the loner with a heart of gold" Individual culpability versus the notion of peer pressure, which could be expounded to include societal pressure....
People only do things if personal benefit outweighs the benefit that the other person receives. Quite a handy "selfishness gauge," eh? Some people... Never make a blanket statement like that, to assume anything about something as tricky as human nature is a dangerous fallacy. Scientific objectivity.
I think it was the need for an answer. I may have mentioned it earlier.
. I would very much consider it a personal favor if you reflected on why you felt the pressure of "a need for an answer" I do not need you to stroke my ego, please remeber. Stay objective.
"Do you have anyone that you can feel comfortable confiding in? " was your question though. You sort of implied that comfort is necessary to confide in someone. Then you said it wasn't necessary
If I offended you by asking a personal question here, I apologize. It is often assumed that comfort is a necessary componant of confession. I forgot who I was speaking with, obviously. The thing with confessions, it allows us to extract our thoughts, once freed of our mental cages, those thoughts are freed to be picked apart, examined, reconstructed if necessary, etc etc. It's much easier to work on something if it is on the table under bright lights. It's easier on the eyes too.
Oh Yup... Hot chocolate is goood.
Why is it that people listen to stories that have nothing to do with them? Are you kidding? There's no business like show business. Prostitution is the second oldest profession in the world. The first? Acting. To be able to witness and relate (or not) References? Myths, Fables, Parables, Classics, The birth of theatre. At the end of the day, there is a lot of time in a day, one usually needs something to fill the time and produce feelings of fullfillment and well being. Idle hands are the devils playground. SO on, so forth.The stimulation of new experiences? The knowledge that there are people whose lives suck more than theirs? Besides, there are plenty of "I want to come out of the closet", "I want a boyfriend", "I broke up with my boyfriend" stories here. Clearly the most pressing problems in life. Can't you get your fix there? Nope, it takes a certain level of depth for me to get my kinks out.
Do I feel like there's someone who would call me a friend? I don't feel a need for pity. Well that's nice. Please don't make assumptions about me, I will try my best not to do the same to you.I thought your question was "do I feel like I can call someone else a friend?" Worded this way, I'd have to say no. But don't we need to answer both questions affirmatively and truthfully for it to qualify as a true friendship? there are differing levels of friendship. a true friendship such as you describe takes time and energy to develop. As long as one person within the connection is maintaining that affirmative and positive intent, the friendship will thrive. Now, if the other end doesn't reciprocate, the friendship will eventually reach a cusp, and once there either fizzle and fade, or grow even stronger. Dependant on the real time actions of the participants. Besides, I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything to deserve anyone's friendship.
And I don't believe that is your call to make. So, nah. It's trust, and respect.
I "think" I'll stick with my original answer. If I wanted, my strengths could be anything. Since I don't feel the need to want, my strengths are nothing. If that is the case, why do you feel the need to say as much. You seem to try so desparately to deny anything that could possibly be viewed as positive. So now you tell me? At what point does self destructive behaviour render one's life unlivable? Has it happened yet. Do you want it to happen? If I am to post anymore in this thread, I will need to have as honest an answer to these questions as possible. Thank you. And one more thing, the fact that you feel you have no need to want is often called contentment. It is often paired with the emotions of fullness and happiness. Do you feel this is the case?
Nah, most of them are just like anyone else but with a higher prevalence of drugs, alcohol, and mental health problems. They're the ones with stories to tell, I'd imagine.
It feels good.
