Average Penis Size Worldwide...

[otters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population

In pure numbers the US wins, but as a percentage of population that are immigrants Canada beats the US by ~5%

even my tiny quaint Arcadian country beats the USA — notwithstanding that we EXport a lot of our indigenous people, viz. to Hollywood

 

[JohnnyAnger]

even my tiny quaint Arcadian country beats the USA — notwithstanding that we EXport a lot of our indigenous people, viz. to Hollywood

Well you are one of those immigrants

 

[xbuzzerx]

You do realise one of Americans worst traits when abroad is going on and on and on about how Irish they are, or how they are Scottish. One of the biggest bug bars Irish friends of mine have with Americans is how they constantly go on like they are from the same country as them. Americans more than anyone focus on their ancestry as how they define themselves.

The fact that Irish blood is reported 500% more commonly in America than is demographically plausible is not news to me. There's a lot of reasons for it. In any event, I don't think this has anything to do with placing Canada as a more "diverse" country just based on the fact that people have less of a strong identification with Canadian, even though you could not tell most white Canadians apart aside from French speakers.

Also dude - you know I like you and I am probably miss reading what you have been saying of late, but you seem to have a really strange view of multiculturalism and other countries outside of America. Like it always feels like you think Europe is so far behind the great bastion of USA in terms of diversity - like we are all still a bunch of white guys that are scared if we see an Asian guy.

I think that I didn't see people from your country running all around the net 10 years ago with charts and pseudoscience trying to convince everyone that the Pakistanis who ran convenience stores or the Russian immigrants to western Europe were going to out-breed the native population in 3 generations and install foreign laws or import Communism, and running off to support fearmongering Nativist groups or anti-immigrant political upstarts. So yes, given the different reaction, I do think the 'degree' of 'multiculturalism' you would see in western Europe was different 10 years ago from today. Western European countries today having to cope with sizeable populations of people from a quite disparate cultural background is more alike to the cultural turbulence the U.S. has always grapped with -- and for much of that time western Europe was patting itself on the back about how multicultural and enlightened it was on this topic. Until it received its own very disparate immigrant populations.

 

[nyctopgam]

I overheard two Canadian guys get into an argument as to whether or not their ancestry was British or "not British, ENGLISH!!!"

That seems perfectly clear and reasonable to me. Ancestry can be taken either be an ethnicity or a nationality.

 

[xbuzzerx]

That seems perfectly clear and reasonable to me. Ancestry can be taken either be an ethnicity or a nationality.

It's ridiculous to hold that up as greater diversity than "I'm Scots-Irish" vs. "My mom was from Ethiopia and my dad was from Bermuda." That's what the linked diversity ranking map did when it measured how people identify ethnically on a verbal self-ID which can divide European-extracted North Americans into 500,000 different categories.

 

[otters]

Well you are one of those immigrants

Yeah, ditto my cue to talk about the finesses of nationality/citizenship/ethnicity in conjunction with accurately performed and archive based genealogical studies — but no no no I don't want to mock our American friends, we mustn't forget that we're just the European guests here ^^

 

[JohnnyAnger]

It's ridiculous to hold that up as greater diversity than "I'm Scots-Irish" vs. "My mom was from Ethiopia and my dad was from Bermuda." That's what the linked diversity ranking map did when it measured how people identify ethnically on a verbal self-ID which can divide European-extracted North Americans into 500,000 different categories.

But in human genetics, we are not all that diverse at all - it's all just culture that does it. I mean two populations of chimps that live a mile apart are more genetically diverse than all of humanity is to each other.

Also it is not about diversity, but we Brits don't tend to like to be thought of as just British - its a nation but our identities are more split than that. My partner will never refer to himself as British, and his first language is Welsh - so for him the split between British (read English in reality) and other things.

 

[xbuzzerx]

But in human genetics, we are not all that diverse at all - it's all just culture that does it. I mean two populations of chimps that live a mile apart are more genetically diverse than all of humanity is to each other.

Also it is not about diversity, but we Brits don't tend to like to be thought of as just British - its a nation but our identities are more split than that. My partner will never refer to himself as British, and his first language is Welsh - so for him the split between British (read English in reality) and other things.

You would not enter the home most white people in the Americas and, sans any information about their looks or their surname, be able to tell what their ethnic extraction is. Something in the neighborhood of 5x as many Americans claim Irish blood than is probable, and a lot of that has to do with cultural tropes about St. Paddy's Day and being able to fight and drink that has made Irishness "cool." So what does so many Americans identifying as Irish-American tell us about diversity? Next to nothing. Just like that map.

 

[bankside]

That's only because of the parameters of the question used for establishing that map. Only 32% of all Canadians identify ethnically as Canadian, there's a much bigger breakup of them identifying instead as English, Scottish, French, etc. Whereas I think nearly all Americans identify as Americans-- certainly nearly the entire white American population does.

Canada is less diverse than the U.S. racially, both in terms of percentages and in terms of the sizes of different non-white groups, and (this one I can't back up with stats) from my own observation, it is far more racially enclaved/segregated than the U.S. It is very easy in Canada to walk around almost all day and only see white people (and a couple of Asians) outside of large city downtowns.

I overheard two Canadian guys get into an argument as to whether or not their ancestry was British or "not British, ENGLISH!!!" That kind of thing is not really diversity in the sense I would think of it, lol.

So, here's my statistically valid personal sample result:

If I compare walking around in downtown Vancouver with walking around in downtown Seattle, then I'd have a good understanding of what life is like in most cities across both countries.

And Vancouver is way more diverse. Lots of asian people (east asian to you Brits), and lots of brown people (south asian to...well..probably most of you. i.e. indo-canadians). And white people too.

Seattle was filled with white people and also lots of black people. (not relative to the white people, just relative to any urban community I've ever been to before) but mostly it was overwhelmingly white.

So, from this study of two relatively similar west-coast north american cities, we can draw firm conclusions that Canada is way more diverse.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

You would not enter the home most white people in the Americas and, sans any information about their looks or their surname, be able to tell what their ethnic extraction is. Something in the neighborhood of 5x as many Americans claim Irish blood than is probable, and a lot of that has to do with cultural tropes about St. Paddy's Day and being able to fight and drink that has made Irishness "cool." So what does so many Americans identifying as Irish-American tell us about diversity? Next to nothing. Just like that map.

So is European diversity nothing? Am I no different to say a Polish guy, or a Spanish guy? We are not diverse at all?

Asian genetics are just as lacking in diversity as Europeans (the only area with real strong genetic diversity is central Africa) - are they not diverse?

 

[xbuzzerx]

So is European diversity nothing? Am I no different to say a Polish guy, or a Spanish guy? We are not diverse at all?

Asian genetics are just as lacking in diversity as Europeans (the only area with real strong genetic diversity is central Africa) - are they not diverse?

I don't know. But I know that you simply stating your ethnic extraction or ethnic identification doesn't bestow cultural diversity upon you. All the map told us was that more European Canadians than European Americans identify by an ethnic extraction than they do by a national identity. That's a very different thing from measuring actual diversity. And you're an academic, you know the problem with results about things like these based on verbal self-ID's anyway.

 

[star-warrior]

You would not enter the home most white people in the Americas and, sans any information about their looks or their surname, be able to tell what their ethnic extraction is. Something in the neighborhood of 5x as many Americans claim Irish blood than is probable, and a lot of that has to do with cultural tropes about St. Paddy's Day and being able to fight and drink that has made Irishness "cool." So what does so many Americans identifying as Irish-American tell us about diversity? Next to nothing. Just like that map.

1/32 part from great great great grandma Mary who went west because of the potato blight is enough for modern day folks.

 

[xbuzzerx]

So, here's my statistically valid personal sample result:

If I compare walking around in downtown Vancouver with walking around in downtown Seattle, then I'd have a good understanding of what life is like in most cities across both countries.

And Vancouver is way more diverse. Lots of asian people (east asian to you Brits), and lots of brown people (south asian to...well..probably most of you. i.e. indo-canadians). And white people too.

Seattle was filled with white people and also lots of black people. (not relative to the white people, just relative to any urban community I've ever been to before) but mostly it was overwhelmingly white.

So, from this study of two relatively similar west-coast north american cities, we can draw firm conclusions that Canada is way more diverse.

Do you believe Canada is more diverse than the U.S.?

 

[otters]

So, here's my statistically valid personal sample result:

better a conclusive n = 1 statistic than a useless mess of botched meta statistics.

 

[bankside]

So is European diversity nothing? Am I no different to say a Polish guy, or a Spanish guy? We are not diverse at all?

Asian genetics are just as lacking in diversity as Europeans (the only area with real strong genetic diversity is central Africa) - are they not diverse?

There is certainly more cultural affinity and common ground between a czech and a dutch person than between a dutch and a vietnamese person. And slightly more physical similarity.

But I also think the differences are less likely to be noticed by someone coming from a place where these things tend to get rounded down to "white."

 

[JohnnyAnger]

I don't know. But I know that you simply stating your ethnic extraction or ethnic identification doesn't bestow cultural diversity upon you. All the map told us was that more European Canadians than European Americans identify by an ethnic extraction than they do by a national identity. That's a very different thing from measuring actual diversity. And you're an academic, you know the problem with results about things like these based on verbal self-ID's anyway.

Well yeah, that study was crap. I don't think it's actually publishable (in peer reviewed journals) and it has too many categories of ethnicity - the major one being language (hence Switzerland and Belgium). I think this is most likely what drags up Canada's stats (Quebec obviously, but also 52% of Vancouver have English as a second language) - then again you would expect the UK to go up a bit with the amount of languages spoken in the city ( 300+ languages spoken in London).

 

[xbuzzerx]

There is certainly more cultural affinity and common ground between a czech and a dutch person than between a dutch and a vietnamese person. And slightly more physical similarity.

But I also think the differences are less likely to be noticed by someone coming from a place where these things tend to get rounded down to "white."

That's the way it works Bankside. The more homogenous a society is, the more that trivial or even clan differences will start to become the "markers of division." The bigger real differences are within a society, the more the small distinctions fade out.

Did you know Japanese still secretly do family history checks on dates or children's friends or employment applicants to check of they are from a burakumin background or not? I guarantee you don't have the faintest clue how to tell a Japanese from a burakumin Japanese if you met them. Probably because there actually is no difference other than the original caste of their families a few hundred years ago.

However... burakumin >>>>>>> Korean or Brazilian. No question. If Japan was 40% non-Japanese I'm almost certain burakumin would fall into complete disuse.

 

[bankside]

Do you believe Canada is more diverse than the U.S.?

Well yes, even beyond my sample-of-one. By foreign born population stats, the US is about 14%, Canada about 20%. The US has a domestic hispanic community that contributes to its diversity. By comparison, Canada has English and French Canadian communities that have a greater affect on our diversity at the fundamental level of our cultural self-conception, with official constitutional, legislative, and structural/federal implications beyond everyday culture or history. We have an aboriginal population that is booming in the west and because our general population is smaller to begin with this is having a proportionately greater impact.

 

[nyctopgam]

It's ridiculous to hold that up as greater diversity than "I'm Scots-Irish" vs. "My mom was from Ethiopia and my dad was from Bermuda." That's what the linked diversity ranking map did when it measured how people identify ethnically on a verbal self-ID which can divide European-extracted North Americans into 500,000 different categories.

Not sure what you're getting at. Dont most Americans already verbally self identify with compound identities like Irish Americans?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Well yes, even beyond my sample-of-one. By foreign born population stats, the US is about 14%, Canada about 20%. The US has a domestic hispanic community that contributes to its diversity. By comparison, Canada has English and French Canadian communities that have a greater affect on our diversity at the fundamental level of our cultural self-conception, with official constitutional, legislative, and structural/federal implications beyond everyday culture or history. We have an aboriginal population that is booming in the west and because our general population is smaller to begin with this is having a proportionately greater impact.

Welp, that's where it comes down to how are you defining it. I didn't feel in Canada I could really find anything (other than some French printing on labels or signs-- which would merely be Spanish here) I couldn't find in the midwestern United States, but there were many things I couldn't find at all--- be they people, melanin tones, ethnic foods, etc. I would also argue that the large size of your country combined with its small population contributes towards reducing coherency of multiple cultures and instead contributes towards dispersion of people from different cultural backgrounds into the mainstream. Vancouver is a notable exception (and it's not a surprise it's the one example you chose) since it's known for having a very well established Asian cultural presence.