Baptist display their hatred - - surprise surprise

[Rand]

WILMINGTON -- Leaders at the Baptist State Convention in Greensboro voted Tuesday that any congregation that approves or endorses homosexuality would be barred from membership.
This may be one of the most rigid anti-gay policies in the nation among Christian churches.
Folks voting in favor of the ban say they're simply following scripture, but members of the local gay community question the wisdom of excluding anyone from a church.
It's an issue that's taken the forefront of the State Baptist Convention in Greensboro.
Baptist State Convention attendee Milton Hollifield said, "I would like to remind this convention that the Bible is very clear that homosexuality is an abomination."
While parts of scripture clearly condemn homosexuality, not everyone at the convention agreed that a ban is appropriate. But the final decision came down to a vote.
The ban ultimately passed by a wide margin.
Baptist State Convention President Stan Wech says any church found violating the new by-law could suffer tough consequences.
"If they chose to stay in that particular church then I suppose they would be dis-fellowshiped," Wech said.


However, in good news for most members, adultery, spousal and child abuse and premarital sex are still considered discretions of only minor consequence.

 

[gewhite3]

As time progresses maybe they will dis-fellowship everyone and there will be very few of them left. They don't know it but they are only working to eliminate anyone that believes in the true message of their faith, eventually reducing their own numbers. The Catholic religion will end up isolating a lot of their congregation as well by the same type of isolation tactics. I don't know about anyone else but I can't stand that new Pope, I think he's a total ass. It's a shame really.

 

[Riverrick]

Just more of the same. And all of this stuff is based on only a few lines in the the Bible. They spend all of this time and money and emotional angst over those particular words out of all of the thoughts and ideas and words in that book. When you step back and look at it this is really bizarre behavior, clearly an obsession.

The only reason I can think of to obsess about homosexuality is that it hits home.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Money talks and bullshit walks, is what my Grandpa use to say.

I would imagine that they'd be singing a different tune if one of their "mega-churches" read: mega-coffers decided to violate the new anti-gay by-law, that they'd reconsider.

I was asked by a Southern Baptist Co-worker, "if Homosexuality wasn't such a sin, then why do you think that the Church rails against so badly?"

My answer, "Because Gays are easy targets. Nobody claims to know one, so it's easier for a preacher to rail against them as opposed to making someone uncomfortable for being an adulterer, child-molester, alcoholic, thieving, incestuous, ten-commandment breaking crook."

 

[ncguy7]

The good news is not all Baptists are like that. The Southern Baptist churches that broke away in the 90s and formed their own alliance are a different breed. There may be individual members who still feel uncomfortable with gays, but the churches as a whole aren't.

These are moderate/liberal Baptist who believe in separation of church and state and other OLD-TIME Baptist beliefs. It's the SBC and it's NEW-TIME system that's betraying the Baptist way.

And I'm with the poster above. These kinds of churches will eventually thrive while the rigid, obsessed ones will return to the fringes of society where they belong.

 

[GL]

Money talks and bullshit walks, is what my Grandpa use to say.

I would imagine that they'd be singing a different tune if one of their "mega-churches" read: mega-coffers decided to violate the new anti-gay by-law, that they'd reconsider.

I was asked by a Southern Baptist Co-worker, "if Homosexuality wasn't such a sin, then why do you think that the Church rails against so badly?"

My answer, "Because Gays are easy targets. Nobody claims to know one, so it's easier for a preacher to rail against them as opposed to making someone uncomfortable for being an adulterer, child-molester, alcoholic, thieving, incestuous, ten-commandment breaking crook."

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Bloody hypocrites.

 

[Soilwork]

in my own pig-headed opinion, this kind of shit is the fault of all of you closeted gay guys out there. It's a lot easier to hate us when we're a tiny little group of evil people you don't know.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I'd forgotten about that song, I think it's brilliant

Jasun I agree to an extent about closet cases, I'm partially out but there are circumstances at work as to why I don't really want them to know.

I think what Soilwork is saying, is that it's one thing to protect yourself from discrimination, and a completely different thing to allow hate-mongering bigots walk all over you from a pulpit, or a place of "authority."

The more visiable we become; son's daughters, fathers, mothers, brothers and friends, the less we can be demonized. We are who the Southern Baptists are talking about. Us, not a them, but ALL OF US within the GLBT community.

Whenever some bigot at work, church, or in a social environment starts trashing Gays and Lesbians publicly, and we say nothing, remain in our "safe" closets, we're endorsing their message.

But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Soilwork]

What I'm saying really, is that as gay men we have the luxury of deciding to tell people if we're a minority or not.

Nobody other than a total fuck-tard would tell a black joke in front of a black man, but as gay men, we have the choice to laugh along with gay jokes if we don't want to come out.

There's always "circumstances" as to why people can't come out... "my mom is religious", "My father is homophobic", "my friends wouldn't want to be my friend anymore", "People would be mean to me", "My aunt pays for my college and she hates gay people", "I have a job where people would look down on me".



It's all just excuses for not having balls, and even the people saying it know that.

Yes, it's easy for me to preach from my secure position as the marketing director of a gay-owned adult film company that markets primarily to gay men.

I also was out when I worked for a suburban video retail chain with a bunch of suburban old guys who weren't that comfortable with my sexuality.

But that's me.

Yes, I get it that there are always circumstances for not coming out, and although the vast majority boil down to "I'm too much of a coward to stand up for myself", there are a few instances where coming out isn't a good idea.

But just know that every time you pass up a chance to tell someone that you're gay... you allow shit like the topic of this thread to happen just a bit easier.

I've been out for 20 years now. More than half my life.

But I think of those poor, young gay men in those Baptist churches with no role modles who are being told that just being gay is enough of a crime to be thrown out of their families, homes, communities...

And well... those circumstances that many of you guys talk about just aren't enough.

 

[Centexfarmer]

^ I agree!

 

[Orlandude]

Baptists and other religions displaying their hatred is nothing new. You may recall a few years back when the Southern Baptist Convention attacked Disney for hiring gays, endorsing "gay days at Disney" and giving gays and their partners benefits only extended to straight married folks. They proclaimed a nationwide boycott of Disney. HA! What they forgot about was that a significant percentage of their congregations WORK for Disney, either directly or indirectly. That meant LESS MONEY in their collection baskets. So they bit themselves in the ass and that little fiasco was soon forgotten about, just like this one will be.

By the way, this years attendance at "Gay Days at Disney" in Orlando in June broke all records, exceeding 100,000. I don't completely agree with Soilwork in the sense that I think we DO represent ourselves well but only in certain venues. I would agree with him that we need to make that kind of presence known....ALWAYS, not just at Gay Days.

 

[Riverrick]

Yes, I agree with you that we would be further along in society's acceptance of us if we could not so easliy hide.

But this sort of remark:

Yes, I get it that there are always circumstances for not coming out, and although the vast majority boil down to "I'm too much of a coward to stand up for myself"

just amounts to judgement of the guys who haven't come out and means nothing more than it pisses you off. To call someone a coward tells us more about you than about the person you are talking about.

That's how judgement works.

 

[Soilwork]

what it tells you about me is that I'm so sick of hearing people whine that they can't come out because "People will be mean to me".

I get it that there ARE some good reasons for not coming out.

But just a few... most of them are just excuses.

And yes, you know what? I DO judge people who don't live their lives on their own terms. And I'm allowed to.

THAT's how judgement works.

 

[Riverrick]

From reading your posts over time, I think that you don't understand that life can feel totally different in someone else's shoes. What is fear to you can be terror to them.

When their whole world is defined by the people around them who they love and depend upon to be loved and cared for, coming out of the closet can feel equivalent to suicide. I'm not brave enough to commit suicide so how could I ever judge them? I don't walk in their shoes or come home to their parents every night. I don't depend upon their circle of friends for my affirmation and self-esteem. So I don't open my mouth talk about what they should do if I don't really understand them.

I do always support your underlying message Soil. This is just a philosophical debate about how to best help people out of the closet.

 

[Soilwork]

well... ok, say a guy is in the military and will get fired from his job.

Let's say you work as a pre-school teacher in a small town.

maybe you're still not sure how you want to identify and don't want to discuss it before you're ready.

Let's say you've only just come out to yourself and just aren't ready to have everyone else know.

Lots of reasons.

but "My mom would be mean" isn't one.

 

[buzzj]

Getting thrown out of the Baptist State Convention--- what a badge of honor!!

 

[Riverrick]

We have a very unusual minority in that we are invisible, our families do not share our minority with us, and we do not know from birth that we belong to this minority but rather have to discover this on our own. On top of this, others claim that we are not a real minority but rather that we are choosing to be this way. And then, of course, they claim that God doesn't want us to be the way we are which makes it all the more confusing.

This creates a whole set of problems for us in coming out, helping others to come out, and being accepted as a legitimate minority or subculture in our society. The picture is so confusing that we even disagree between ourselves how best to live our lives and achieve equal rights.

My point is that we can't really be compared to racial groups and their struggles for equal freedoms. They march alongside of their parents and siblings and are clear about their identities. We flop around in our lives, making some friends, dating, going to a few gay events but for the most part living in the straight world.

For me personally, this board is my strongest connection to my gay identity. It has made me much more sane recently (although that may not be obvious ).

 

[Soilwork]

How about working at a swimming pool in a small town? A lesbian who used to work in the gym was accused of walking through the changing rooms to see the young girls naked. Thankfully it was dropped because the girl the coach was trying to 'protect' denied anything had happened.....but I have to walk through every 30 - 45 minuets when I'm at work on my own. I'm also not very well liked by the council so I doubt they'd back me up as much as they should do.

I might not be so lucky.......I am not willing to put myself in that situation especially as I'm looking for another job anyway!!

yeah, see, in a case like that.. sure.. I get it.

personally I'd never work a job in which my personal life would get hauled into anything, but that's me.

I'm an obstinate fuck in case you hadn't noticed.

Honestly, work is just work. I'm more talking about friends and family when I talk about people who are closeted making it worse for themselves and the gay community.

 

[Rand]

I was asked by a Southern Baptist Co-worker, "if Homosexuality wasn't such a sin, then why do you think that the Church rails against so badly?"

My answer, "Because Gays are easy targets. Nobody claims to know one, so it's easier for a preacher to rail against them as opposed to making someone uncomfortable for being an adulterer, child-molester, alcoholic, thieving, incestuous, ten-commandment breaking crook."

What a great answer - - fear and guilt and hatred seem to be the great motivators - -

 

[Rand]

At the risk of causing an even larger hijack... Perhaps a little Dickens from Nicholas Nickleby may be apropros in relation to some of the comments of this thread:

actually I like the hijack - an interesting conversation

I am out to anyone that asks - - - it is amazing how feel will ask