Baptist Pastor Happy About Orlando Shooting

[peeonme]

How does one go from the LGBT community to pedophilia? This guy is terribly misinformed.

How does it go from a Muslim extremist doing a mass murder to the dumb ass comments of a few so called Christians?

 

[xbuzzerx]

How does it go from a Muslim extremist doing a mass murder to the dumb ass comments of a few so called Christians?

A curious thing Christian Americans do is that when you point out examples of Christians saying some pretty awful stuff, they call them "so called Christians." Or "not real Christians."

You notice you never see Americans calling people pretty firmly outside the mainstream of Islam or whatever "so called Muslims."

So which standard should be applied? You judge religions by everything, including their crazies? Or you judge religions only by their mainstreams, and toss out the crazies as not real members? Thank you for bringing up the usual American double standard for discussion though.

 

[jbrown329]

Take said pastor's bible, soak it in gasoline, shove it up his ass and light it.

 

[peeonme]

A curious thing Christian Americans do is that when you point out examples of Christians saying some pretty awful stuff, they call them "so called Christians." Or "not real Christians."

You notice you never see Americans calling people pretty firmly outside the mainstream of Islam or whatever "so called Muslims." So which standard should be applied? You judge religions by everything, including their crazies? Or you judge religions only by their mainstreams, and toss out the crazies as not real members? Thank you for bringing up the usual American double standard for discussion though.

I use the term "Muslim extremists" inasmuch as those who are of this ilk have taken Muslim doctrine and teaching to an extreme degree and have used it to kill.
I use the term "so called Christians" because what they espouse is outside of the teachings of Christ, to be a Christian extremist one would be on the streets feeding the poor and tending to the sick as Mother Theresa did.

The Muslim extreme is war on the infidel. The Christian extreme is love your enemy.
I hope that you might now understand my wording.

 

[DantheManFL]

But, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's a Trump supporter.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I use the term "Muslim extremists" inasmuch as those who are of this ilk have taken Muslim doctrine and teaching to an extreme degree and have used it to kill.
I use the term "so called Christians" because what they espouse is outside of the teachings of Christ, to be a Christian extremist one would be on the streets feeding the poor and tending to the sick as Mother Theresa did.

The Muslim extreme is war on the infidel. The Christian extreme is love your enemy.
I hope that you might now understand my wording.

What it sounds like you basically said is that a minority of Muslims follow the religion too much and a majority of Christians don't follow their religion whatsoever. Or at least as an American, I would say so. The very last thing in the world I connotate with American Christians is compassion for other people, generosity, or doing good works to help those less privileged. Politically they seem far more concerned with punishing people for not living up to vague Old Testament notions of how one should live, and think that Jesus would have told them to get off welfare.

If someone not following that lifestyle is not a real Christian, then the huge majority aren't real Christians, and judging the religion of Christianity by its supposed message (I would submit that your interpretation of it as being predominantly about love and tolerance is only one interpretation, Fundamentalists would certainly disagree that the Old Testament should be of the lower priority your interpretation would require) that very very few of them practice at all, is disingenuous.

 

[peeonme]

What it sounds like you basically said is that a minority of Muslims follow the religion too much and a majority of Christians don't follow their religion whatsoever. Or at least as an American, I would say so. The very last thing in the world I connotate with American Christians is compassion for other people, generosity, or doing good works to help those less privileged. Politically they seem far more concerned with punishing people for not living up to vague Old Testament notions of how one should live, and think that Jesus would have told them to get off welfare.

If someone not following that lifestyle is not a real Christian, then the huge majority aren't real Christians, and judging the religion of Christianity by its supposed message (I would submit that your interpretation of it as being predominantly about love and tolerance is only one interpretation, Fundamentalists would certainly disagree that the Old Testament should be of the lower priority your interpretation would require) that very very few of them practice at all, is disingenuous.

I am so disappointed! I have always given you credit for being able to twist and reapply the words of others in a much more subtle fashion than this.

Just because a Christian is not on the streets feeding the poor it hardly means that he is not following the faith whatsoever. Some work and fund the food and the workers who work directly with the poor and needy, some work in pantries at their church, some who have little to offer bring in canned food and non perishable items. Some do nothing. Note that all of these are positive acts except do nothing.

The extreme on the Muslim side is to kill the infidel. A minority take part in this, some encourage them, some fund them. Some do nothing and are afraid to speak against terrorism unless they live in a non Muslim state.

On one hand we have some who are moderate in their actions of helping people.
On the other we have some who are moderate in the actions of killing people.

Now, look, you are a smart guy, I bet you done been to college, I on the other hand I went through the 5th grade, failed the 6th, skipped the 7th and then saw 3 months of the 8th grade, after this I did pass the 9th grade.

I expect you to hand me my ass, come on, you can do better.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I am so disappointed! I have always given you credit for being able to twist and reapply the words of others in a much more subtle fashion than this.

Just because a Christian is not on the streets feeding the poor it hardly means that he is not following the faith whatsoever. Some work and fund the food and the workers who work directly with the poor and needy, some work in pantries at their church, some who have little to offer bring in canned food and non perishable items. Some do nothing. Note that all of these are positive acts except do nothing.

Yes some. And most do absolutely none of what you listed.

The extreme on the Muslim side is to kill the infidel. A minority take part in this, some encourage them, some fund them. Some do nothing and are afraid to speak against terrorism unless they live in a non Muslim state.

On one hand we have some who are moderate in their actions of helping people.
On the other we have some who are moderate in the actions of killing people.

Now, look, you are a smart guy, I bet you done been to college, I on the other hand I went through the 5th grade, failed the 6th, skipped the 7th and then saw 3 months of the 8th grade, after this I did pass the 9th grade.

I expect you to hand me my ass, come on, you can do better.

You didn't answer my question.

Do you judge both religions by their mainstreams, or not?

Mainstream Christians by and large can't be observed following this gentle interpretation of Christianity that, according to you, is the main message of the religion. As I pointed out, Fundamentalist stripes would disagree that the Old Testament should simply be waved off. The entire Christian influence underlining right-wing policy efforts is based on this Fundamentalist stripe. Not on a moderate, let's help clothe and feed the poor and hungry and those in prisons stripe you say is the real, representative message. They're totally against those things.

So which standard gets applied? All I ever see most Americans do, and your posts so far would be included, is apply one standard to Christianity and one to Islam.

If you go with the "majority observance", then no, Islam is not a religion that promotes violence or extremism. There are 1.6 billion of them. And if you go with the majority observance, most Christians are pretty shitty selfish people who are more interested in penalizing others for not living up to arbitrary moral codes and not interested -at all- in generous acts or helping the struggling.

If you go by the doctrine, or the Holy book, or the fundamentalist interpretation of "every line in the teachings matters, none is less important", then you can easily make the case Christianity is also a religion that supports extremist actions and pretty brutal things.

 

[peeonme]

Yes some. And most do absolutely none of what you listed.



You didn't answer my question.

Do you judge both religions by their mainstreams, or not?

Mainstream Christians by and large can't be observed following this gentle interpretation of Christianity that, according to you, is the main message of the religion. As I pointed out, Fundamentalist stripes would disagree that the Old Testament should simply be waved off. The entire Christian influence underlining right-wing policy efforts is based on this Fundamentalist stripe. Not on a moderate, let's help clothe and feed the poor and hungry and those in prisons stripe you say is the real, representative message. They're totally against those things.

So which standard gets applied? All I ever see most Americans do, and your posts so far would be included, is apply one standard to Christianity and one to Islam.

If you go with the "majority observance", then no, Islam is not a religion that promotes violence or extremism. There are 1.6 billion of them. And if you go with the majority observance, most Christians are pretty shitty selfish people who are more interested in penalizing others for not living up to arbitrary moral codes and not interested -at all- in generous acts or helping the struggling.

If you go by the doctrine, or the Holy book, or the fundamentalist interpretation of "every line in the teachings matters, none is less important", then you can easily make the case Christianity is also a religion that supports extremist actions and pretty brutal things.

Try being gay in an Islamic nation and see how the "main stream" re-acts.
Try being a Christian in an Islamic nation and see how the main stream re-acts.

In America and other free nations, most main stream Christians are at best embracing of Muslims and gays, at worse they are tolerant.
The fundamentalists which are of no small number are the ones who love to pick a scripture from Leviticus and beat people up with it. I make no excuse for them, I would only say that for them to in act the law of Moses and stone a person is rare. They run their mouth and spew hatred.
By their own confession they condemn themselves, as it is written; Don't commit adultery. Christ whom they profess to follow has said "if you look at a woman to lust after her then you have committed adultery in your heart".
What str8 guy has never checked out a woman, from the pulpit?

Your hatred and contempt for Christianity is noted, now I am bored with you, I had expected better.

Jesus said that he had not come to destroy or nullify the law od Moses, but to fulfill. The law came by Moses, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Try being gay in an Islamic nation and see how the "main stream" re-acts.
Try being a Christian in an Islamic nation and see how the main stream re-acts.

In America and other free nations, most main stream Christians are at best embracing of Muslims and gays, at worse they are tolerant.

No no no no no.

That's a result of secularism. Which is also an "enemy" of Christianity, and which had to fight its way into existence gradually over centuries.

That is not "Christianity." The "Christian vote" is going for someone who wants to do the same thing to Muslims and other non-believers, wants to restrict their rights, ability to enter the country, ability to hold office, etc. They want to make a society that is the same for Muslims here as it is being a Christian in a country like Iran.

Your hatred and contempt for Christianity is noted, now I am bored with you, I had expected better.

LOL, "I can't defend the double standard I'm using, I can't even really answer it other than making stuff up and attributing to Christianity all kinds of positive attributes that Christians vote against in society, so I'm just going to call you an irrational hater of Christianity." Got it.

 

[rareboy]

Try being gay in an Islamic nation and see how the "main stream" re-acts.
Try being a Christian in an Islamic nation and see how the main stream re-acts.

In America and other free nations, most main stream Christians are at best embracing of Muslims and gays, at worse they are tolerant.
The fundamentalists which are of no small number are the ones who love to pick a scripture from Leviticus and beat people up with it. I make no excuse for them, I would only say that for them to in act the law of Moses and stone a person is rare. They run their mouth and spew hatred.
By their own confession they condemn themselves, as it is written; Don't commit adultery. Christ whom they profess to follow has said "if you look at a woman to lust after her then you have committed adultery in your heart".
What str8 guy has never checked out a woman, from the pulpit?

Your hatred and contempt for Christianity is noted, now I am bored with you, I had expected better.

Jesus said that he had not come to destroy or nullify the law od Moses, but to fulfill. The law came by Moses, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

But this is the crux of it. This is the same in all religions. Fundamentalists.

And when the Fundamentalists get control....they apply their strict fundamentalist principles.

All in the name of their God.

Christian, Muslim...it doesn't matter.

Western Europe and the Americas are lucky that we are beyond the age of fundamentalism (we hope). Our bloodshed and violence is almost in the past if African and Irish religious wars stay quiet.

But if the hardcore bible thumping religious zealots of the US got control...America would they are openly promoting the nation as a Dominionist State and constantly trying to demolish separation between church and state.

 

[rareboy]

And believe me. When Pat Robertson is saying that good christians should just stand aside while Islamic fundamentalists and the homos kill one another...he is speaking what is in the hearts of way too many good christians in the US today.

 

[peeonme]

How does it go from a Muslim extremist doing a mass murder to the dumb ass comments of a few so called Christians?

Again,read my question. A Muslim terrorist kills, the worst killing in our history and instead of questioning what the fuck is wrong with the killer and his beliefs we look at dummies taking scripture out of context, what bullshit.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Again,read my question. A Muslim terrorist kills, the worst killing in our history and instead of questioning what the fuck is wrong with the killer and his beliefs we look at dummies taking scripture out of context, what bullshit.

I did read your question.

And since there was no corresponding exclusive lens applied to situations like Dylan Roof examining that a CHRISTIAN committed this crime and why are we not talking about the problem of CHRISTIANITY and the violence it promotes, I called out the double standard.

All the evidence is that the shooter last minute foxhole slapped Islam trappings on what he was doing. But if the fact that he came from a Muslim background means that we treat this crime as inherently Muslim in nature, then you do the same for Christian shooters or get called a hypocrite.

 

[jbrown329]

Try being gay in an Islamic nation and see how the "main stream" re-acts.
Try being a Christian in an Islamic nation and see how the main stream re-acts.

In America and other free nations, most main stream Christians are at best embracing of Muslims and gays, at worse they are tolerant.
The fundamentalists which are of no small number are the ones who love to pick a scripture from Leviticus and beat people up with it. I make no excuse for them, I would only say that for them to in act the law of Moses and stone a person is rare. They run their mouth and spew hatred.
By their own confession they condemn themselves, as it is written; Don't commit adultery. Christ whom they profess to follow has said "if you look at a woman to lust after her then you have committed adultery in your heart".
What str8 guy has never checked out a woman, from the pulpit?

Your hatred and contempt for Christianity is noted, now I am bored with you, I had expected better.

Jesus said that he had not come to destroy or nullify the law od Moses, but to fulfill. The law came by Moses, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Evangelical Christians did in Uganda what they can't do here. Ever watch God Loves Uganda?

 

[peeonme]

Evangelical Christians did in Uganda what they can't do here. Ever watch God Loves Uganda?

"What they can't do here" how does this go to Uganda? IS it not pc to be mad at Moslim?

 

[jbrown329]

<snip>
Your hatred and contempt for Christianity is noted, now I am bored with you, I had expected better.
<snip>

Contempt? You damn betcha. I have 100% contempt for the religious right. Parsley, Robertson, Graham, Van Impe and others like them. And EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEIR FOLLOWERS.

My dearest friend is Christian. Guess what? She supports a woman's right to choose. She supports separation of church and state. She supports FULL equality for LGBTs. That included marriage (before SCOTUS ruled).

The degrees of difference between the way she believes and the God she prays to is 1 TRILLION % opposite of the religious right.

I have NO PROBLEM with Christians like that. As for the religious right, I'd love to hit them in the face with a shit pie.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Contempt? You damn betcha. I have 100% contempt for the religious right. Parsley, Robertson, Graham, Van Impe and others like them. And EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEIR FOLLOWERS.

My dearest friend is Christian. Guess what? She supports a woman's right to choose. She supports separation of church and state. She supports FULL equality for LGBTs. That included marriage (before SCOTUS ruled).

The degrees of difference between the way she believes and the God she prays to is 1 TRILLION % opposite of the religious right.

I have NO PROBLEM with Christians like that. As for the religious right, I'd love to hit them in the face with a shit pie.

You're referring to religious people who fully accept and respect secularism. That society comprises people of many beliefs and that people's fundamental access to equal rights or free choices should not be dictated by one faith's moral code (or any at all.)

What I think peeonme doesn't accept, is that the gentle virtues of modern day Christians are largely virtues of secularism, NOT inherent to strict Christian teachings, which has no history left to its own devices of being more tolerant of differing beliefs or different versions of morality than any other evangelical religion. Holy wars, burnings, ostracization of heretics... Christianity's got it all in its closet. Christianity didn't stop these things. Secularism did.

You want to say all religion is net negative and at best, encourages people to do decent things that they don't need religion to tell them are good things, but at worst, encourages people to be intolerant and dogmatic and attempt to persecute others? I'm good with that. Want to say Islam inherently does this and Christianity inherently doesn't because it's about gentle tolerance? I'm sorry, that makes me LOL.

 

[jbrown329]

But this is the crux of it. This is the same in all religions. Fundamentalists.

And when the Fundamentalists get control....they apply their strict fundamentalist principles.

All in the name of their God.

Christian, Muslim...it doesn't matter.

Western Europe and the Americas are lucky that we are beyond the age of fundamentalism (we hope). Our bloodshed and violence is almost in the past if African and Irish religious wars stay quiet.

But if the hardcore bible thumping religious zealots of the US got control...America would they are openly promoting the nation as a Dominionist State and constantly trying to demolish separation between church and state.

highlight mine.

For anyone not familiar with Dominion theology, http://theocracywatch.org

And this is both sobering and scarier than any horror movie ever made.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060523_battlecry_ron_luce

About 10yrs ago I read the Texas Republican Party official platform. In said platform, they wanted to make Christianity the official religion of the United States (and subtly into a theocracy when read between the lines). I don't know if it still states that, I've not looked in years.

 

[jbrown329]

I'm against ALL fundamentalism. Doesn't matter what religion it is.