Barrack Obama = Jimmy Carter?

[Spensed]

....tone/demeanor/first impressions DO matter - in negotations - in biz - in life

it matters......

as for dicky morris ..............

biden was not gonna happen

russia v georgia made biden happen

INEXPERIENCE - that has come full frontal

and Biden was the answer

so many peeps did not have Biden up there as "BO and Joe don't have that connection personally"

but BO or rather his peeps i imagine figured comfort factor got trumped by actualy winning....

Spin it how you will. Russia achieved exactly what it wanted.

Obviously, tone matters, but is diplomatic language more effective than impotent threats?

Part of negotiating is anticipating when someone's just going to call your bluff, which all too predictably is what the Russians did first to Georgia and then to the US. You think, for one second, that Russia was afraid that, as militarily stretched as it is, the US might back up its words in any meaningful way. That what McCain's lobbying efforts lead Georgia's leader to believe and he's effectively lost control of one, if not two, Georgian territories.

As for Dick Morris being right, when he was wrong, about Biden, Obama's critics had long been asserting Obama's lack of foreign experience and many commentators have consistently identified Biden as a possible VP. There's absolutely nothing (other than your own rationalization) to indicate that Obama had eliminated Biden and then changed his mind because of the Georgia conflict.

However, we're off topic. I look forward eagerly to hearing how Obama is like Jimmy Carter and how McCain is like Washington or Lincoln. LOL.

 

[chance1]

Spin it how you will. Russia achieved exactly what it wanted.

Obviously, tone matters, but is diplomatic language more effective than impotent threats?

Part of negotiating is anticipating when someone's just going to call your bluff, which all too predictably is what the Russians did first to Georgia and then to the US. You think, for one second, that Russia was afraid that, as militarily stretched as it is, the US might back up its words in any meaningful way. That what McCain's lobbying efforts lead Georgia's leader to believe and he's effectively lost control of one, if not two, Georgian territories.

As for Dick Morris being right, when he was wrong, about Biden, Obama's critics had long been asserting Obama's lack of foreign experience and many commentators have consistently identified Biden as a possible VP. There's absolutely nothing (other than your own rationalization) to indicate that Obama had eliminated Biden and then changed his mind because of the Georgia conflict.

However, we're off topic. I look forward eagerly to hearing how Obama is like Jimmy Carter and how McCain is like Washington or Lincoln. LOL.

man - u just don't get it

jmac wasn't gonna stop russia from what they wanted to do

he was sending a message to vlad man - what HE is about - what JMac is about - what he could expect

and if .................. Vlad is so unfortunate that HE (JMac) wins ............. well he will just have to behave better and more importantly know the consequences of NOT behaving better

kinda like training ur dog

u have a dog? i do

it's called personal dynamics

it's called sending a message

it's called knowing the dealio

vs. let me check my thesis on this - i did a good one in harvard - pretty sure it was a similar case study ............ to quote u LOL

the georgia lobbyist thing is .......................... nonsense and has passed as it should cuz even hardcore media BO suckers know it's bogus and irrelevant

McCain is like GW - white hair and all - but he's older (JMac is)

SENIOR POWER

Obama = Carter I don't agree with .............. too early to tell

but its only natural to look back at previous dem presidents for comparisons - cuz there's a lotta blog space, newspaper space, tv space ........

and unfortunately Jimmy crack corn was not that long ago in dem presidential politics

i would say they r similar in being SOFT, IDEALISTIC (not a bad quality at all - but when overdone .................... deadly), WIDE EYED

imagine u and me ............. getting back on topic

AND WHAT'S WITH THE BLUE? BOLD BLUE AT THAT

 

[Spensed]

^ You're still talking as if Russia didn't get pretty much what it wanted or could have expected to get.

As it happens I do have a dog. I absolutely love my dog. It's large, very intelligent and very well trained and behaved. Some dogs you simply can't strong arm. They'll either bite you or just lose their training attention. You have to coax and reward them. And sometimes that involves focusing on and rewarding the good responses rather than shouting at them or talking sternly to them about a bad response. Get the picture.

Now try being McCain-like with a cat and see how far you get. LOL.

 

[Txgoodoldboy]

Now try being McCain-like with a cat and see how far you get. LOL.

That's great! Good point!

I like Jimmy Carter. If we had adopted his energy plan, we wouldn't be in this mess, today. But I guess, we could also say, "If George W. Bush hadn't stolen the election(s), we wouldn't be in the mess, today."

And the most important thing, Carter wasn't a liar! Like Bush and his Bushies.

 

[chance1]

^ You're still talking as if Russia didn't get pretty much what it wanted or could have expected to get.

As it happens I do have a dog. I absolutely love my dog. It's large, very intelligent and very well trained and behaved. Some dogs you simply can't strong arm. They'll either bite you or just lose their training attention. You have to coax and reward them. And sometimes that involves focusing on and rewarding the good responses rather than shouting at them or talking sternly to them about a bad response. Get the picture.

Now try being McCain-like with a cat and see how far you get. LOL.

russia got what they wanted .............. kinda

they also got poland/us agreement - with ukraine coming

and stirred up the euros who were pretty "whatever" prior

so not sure they're getting what they want really

we will see

cats - yech - had em as a kid - no passion - no love - so indifferent

my dog stanley - mini aussie shepherd - herder - great dog - but when he gets outa line - i raise my voice and ................ he gets it

hear u on the rewarding thingy

but i view vladdy as a pit bull - and u gotta make sure they know ur just as tough as they r

my buddy says - u want respect? u gonna be in a fight?

if ur in a spot - go up the biggest guy of the bunch and nail him - right in the mouth

haha

yep

i think we're getting along here spensed ..............

 

[Kurn]

We live in a profoundly different world from that of the Carter Presidency.
If you've read about the ideas associated with Marshall McCluhan and the "Global Village" you will understand much of where I'm coming from.

McCain is far too cliché-ridden. The fault, of course, lies with his partisan retinue, but his speeches, even giving him all the leeway I can, bespeak a dangerous disconnect.

I hope the USA survives the last 140-odd days of the now-more-dangerous-than-ever Bush administration.

Republicans are portrayed as the experts on foreign policy. While there are decent individuals, as a party this could not be farther from the truth. Don't bother parading academic credentials. The grand synthesis is what is vital. Republicans do not have it. They are ideologically blinded from having that capacity.

Obama promises to be more multi-dimensional. Which is exactly what the USA needs.

 

[AsianDream]

Is Obama an over-intellectualizing Hamlet who is incapable of decisive, strong action? With Iran on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons and Russia resurgent, there isn't much room for on-the-job learning.

I'd equate Obama more with JFK than Jimmy Carter -

IE: not a fundamentally good man out of his depth - but a great charismatic orator who will probably land the USA in just as much trouble as JFK did - but be remembered by history all the same as "a great leader"

Though there is still a chance McCain might win this time - in which case Hillary will almost certainly be president in 2012 and Obama just a footnote in history (the Black novice senator that almost made president)

 

[RandomAccess]

We live in a profoundly different world from that of the Carter Presidency.
If you've read about the ideas associated with Marshall McCluhan and the "Global Village" you will understand much of where I'm coming from.

McCain is far too cliché-ridden. The fault, of course, lies with his partisan retinue, but his speeches, even giving him all the leeway I can, bespeak a dangerous disconnect.

I hope the USA survives the last 140-odd days of the now-more-dangerous-than-ever Bush administration.

Republicans are portrayed as the experts on foreign policy. While there are decent individuals, as a party this could not be farther from the truth. Don't bother parading academic credentials. The grand synthesis is what is vital. Republicans do not have it. They are ideologically blinded from having that capacity.

I think one Republican who is a brilliant Foreign Policy man may be asked to jump ship and join a Democratic administration. Indiana's Sr. Senator, Dick Lugar, actually looks more like a Democrat by his voting record than a Republican. And there's just not many people with Foreign Policy chops to match him.

Obama promises to be more multi-dimensional. Which is exactly what the USA needs.

Obama promises "change" too.

 

[Kulindahr]

Kuli, I don't think I was alone in thinking that your baiting thread title was pretty-much rhetorical. Baiting tends to get some off-topic responses, doncha think?

Okay, I'll play.

So, you think McCain is more qualified to answer foreign threats with his hot-head rep?

And in case you didn't know this, Jimmy Carter was one of the best foreign relations Presidents ever. Iran was a revolution outside his control.

"Baiting"? All I did was make a shorter version of the article's title.

As for McCain, I think he'll treat the rest of the world the way he dealt with his captors at that prison camp: with suspicion, hostility, and barely-restrained aggression -- sort of like Bush, who I predicted would treat the world like his Texas ranch... and he did.

I'm not convinced Carter was one of the best, but I did like his theme of human rights. Some called it naive, but if we'd had Carter running foreign policy instead of Bush, and that other Bush, while we've been the lone superpower, it would have been perfect. As it is...

 

[Kulindahr]

Obviously, tone matters, but is diplomatic language more effective than impotent threats?

And that's what it was: impotent rhetoric.

jmac wasn't gonna stop russia from what they wanted to do

he was sending a message to vlad man - what HE is about - what JMac is about - what he could expect

Yes, it's what "JMac" is about: a loud mouth and nothing to back it up. Chance, Putin is sitting over there laughing at McCain, because he knows that it's all bluster. He has Europe by the balls with his ability to turn off their oil, and he doesn't have to sweat one drop over McCain's blather because he knows there's nothing to it.

u have a dog? i do

it's called personal dynamics

it's called sending a message

it's called knowing the dealio

Yeah -- McCain is like the guy on crutches, hollering at his dog, "Stop that, or I'm going to get you!" If McCain "knew the dealio" (where do you get this juvenile stuff? you sound like you're fourteen), he'd have kept his trap shut and quietly talked to the Europeans, because the deal is that the U.S. right now is overextended.

McCain is like GW - white hair and all - but he's older (JMac is)

SENIOR POWER

Oh, right -- senior power. Which to Putin means, "this guy could have a 'cold' at any moment and come up dead the next week". Putin's had a lot of experience in a country run by old men who could drop in their tracks at any moment -- and I bet he relishes the chance to take advantage of the U.S. again when McCain does and there's a brief period of confusion while the Veep takes over.

AND WHAT'S WITH THE BLUE? BOLD BLUE AT THAT

It's his trademark -- makes his writing hard on the eyes for all of us.

^ You're still talking as if Russia didn't get pretty much what it wanted or could have expected to get.

As it happens I do have a dog. I absolutely love my dog. It's large, very intelligent and very well trained and behaved. Some dogs you simply can't strong arm. They'll either bite you or just lose their training attention. You have to coax and reward them. And sometimes that involves focusing on and rewarding the good responses rather than shouting at them or talking sternly to them about a bad response. Get the picture.

Now try being McCain-like with a cat and see how far you get. LOL.

And sometimes the best way to deal with a bad dog is to remain very quiet. When you bluster and make threats and can't carry through, they know it -- and you lose respect.

russia got what they wanted .............. kinda

they also got poland/us agreement - with ukraine coming

and stirred up the euros who were pretty "whatever" prior

so not sure they're getting what they want really

we will see

cats - yech - had em as a kid - no passion - no love - so indifferent

my dog stanley - mini aussie shepherd - herder - great dog - but when he gets outa line - i raise my voice and ................ he gets it

hear u on the rewarding thingy

but i view vladdy as a pit bull - and u gotta make sure they know ur just as tough as they r

my buddy says - u want respect? u gonna be in a fight?

if ur in a spot - go up the biggest guy of the bunch and nail him - right in the mouth

Too bad Putin isn't am aussie shepherd. If we're talking dos, he's probably a Rotweiler-wolf cross, dignified and vaguely threatening until he goes for the throat. And unless it's his master's voice, threats don't make a bit of difference to him, except to stir up his energy for a kill.

And guess what, Chance? McCain is not Putin's master.


Now, how would Jimmy Carter have handled this? My guess is a solemn speech about territorial integrity, something to make national leaders think, and maybe an address to the U.N. It wouldn't be very "effective" in terms of immediate action, but it would be a hell of a lot better than McCain's baying at the moon.

And if Obama's response, if he'd been president during this, would be similar, then he's a far better man than McCain.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think one Republican who is a brilliant Foreign Policy man may be asked to jump ship and join a Democratic administration. Indiana's Sr. Senator, Dick Lugar, actually looks more like a Democrat by his voting record than a Republican. And there's just not many people with Foreign Policy chops to match him.



Obama promises "change" too.

I've thought about Lugar, and wondered if Obama mightn't have been smart to pick him as Veep.

It would certainly have given him a more solid one that Carter had!

 

[RandomAccess]

I've thought about Lugar, and wondered if Obama mightn't have been smart to pick him as Veep.

It would certainly have given him a more solid one that Carter had!

And they are "old buddies" (so-to-speak) having been detained by the Russians together while on their inspection tour.

Also, Lugar has been acting more like a Demo lately than e Repub. Take this very recent news-clip for example:

WASHINGTON -- Indiana GOP Sen. Richard Lugar praised the choice of Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., to be Barack Obama’s running mate Saturday, although Lugar said he was disappointed that his Hoosier colleague wasn’t picked.

From the Indianapolis Star.

 

[chance1]

And that's what it was: impotent rhetoric.



Yes, it's what "JMac" is about: a loud mouth and nothing to back it up. Chance, Putin is sitting over there laughing at McCain, because he knows that it's all bluster. He has Europe by the balls with his ability to turn off their oil, and he doesn't have to sweat one drop over McCain's blather because he knows there's nothing to it.



Yeah -- McCain is like the guy on crutches, hollering at his dog, "Stop that, or I'm going to get you!" If McCain "knew the dealio" (where do you get this juvenile stuff? you sound like you're fourteen), he'd have kept his trap shut and quietly talked to the Europeans, because the deal is that the U.S. right now is overextended.



Oh, right -- senior power. Which to Putin means, "this guy could have a 'cold' at any moment and come up dead the next week". Putin's had a lot of experience in a country run by old men who could drop in their tracks at any moment -- and I bet he relishes the chance to take advantage of the U.S. again when McCain does and there's a brief period of confusion while the Veep takes over.





It's his trademark -- makes his writing hard on the eyes for all of us.



And sometimes the best way to deal with a bad dog is to remain very quiet. When you bluster and make threats and can't carry through, they know it -- and you lose respect.



Too bad Putin isn't am aussie shepherd. If we're talking dos, he's probably a Rotweiler-wolf cross, dignified and vaguely threatening until he goes for the throat. And unless it's his master's voice, threats don't make a bit of difference to him, except to stir up his energy for a kill.

And guess what, Chance? McCain is not Putin's master.


Now, how would Jimmy Carter have handled this? My guess is a solemn speech about territorial integrity, something to make national leaders think, and maybe an address to the U.N. It wouldn't be very "effective" in terms of immediate action, but it would be a hell of a lot better than McCain's baying at the moon.

And if Obama's response, if he'd been president during this, would be similar, then he's a far better man than McCain.

no - impotent rhetoric is suggesting a moral equivalence between russia and georgia's behavior

putin would love for BO to be pres - love it - he could lead him around - not mccain - and with mccain as pres, putin will NOT get away with being a bully - cuz mccain knows his shit

u don't like dealio? sorry maybe u could use a little fourteen - just a thought

and please don't talk about me like im dead cuz i ain't

but ur anti mccain dreck IS - old, tired, dated, kinda like u describe the man

we all get it - u don't like him - whatever

cya kuli

 

[Kulindahr]

no - impotent rhetoric is suggesting a moral equivalence between russia and georgia's behavior

putin would love for BO to be pres - love it - he could lead him around - not mccain - and with mccain as pres, putin will NOT get away with being a bully - cuz mccain knows his shit

u don't like dealio? sorry maybe u could use a little fourteen - just a thought

and please don't talk about me like im dead cuz i ain't

but ur anti mccain dreck IS - old, tired, dated, kinda like u describe the man

we all get it - u don't like him - whatever

cya kuli

Impotent rhetoric is when you talk tough and have nothing to back it with. If McCain doesn't realize the U.S. has no resources to be tough right now, he doesn't even belong in the Senate. The tough talk, though, shows that he doesn't know shit: any real military person would do what the Good Book says, and check his resource4s before issuing a challenge.

As for anti-McCain rhetoric, I notice that you ignored the facts set out and documented by other posters, and have done the same with the facts I've put forth. I don't like McCain because I've looked at the facts, and found him more than just wanting; he's scary.

When I see you give solid answers to the incredible negative facts people have posted about McCain, I might give you some "cred" -- until then, you're just whistling a tune for your own entertainment.

 

[chance1]

Impotent rhetoric is when you talk tough and have nothing to back it with. If McCain doesn't realize the U.S. has no resources to be tough right now, he doesn't even belong in the Senate. The tough talk, though, shows that he doesn't know shit: any real military person would do what the Good Book says, and check his resource4s before issuing a challenge.

As for anti-McCain rhetoric, I notice that you ignored the facts set out and documented by other posters, and have done the same with the facts I've put forth. I don't like McCain because I've looked at the facts, and found him more than just wanting; he's scary.

When I see you give solid answers to the incredible negative facts people have posted about McCain, I might give you some "cred" -- until then, you're just whistling a tune for your own entertainment.

kuli - that u think we have nothing to back it up is scary - very

troop movements will not dictate russia/us dealios - it's not iraq

getting poland on board with more to come shows that we do have assets/situations to leverage

not sure why u can't see that

hard to answer soooooooooo many mccain bashers - i do my best i assure u - and i imagine it's never to ur liking

as for my own entertainment ............ i love music, movies, talking to people, surfing, cycling, relationships .........

thanks for asking

 

[Kulindahr]

kuli - that u think we have nothing to back it up is scary - very

troop movements will not dictate russia/us dealios - it's not iraq

getting poland on board with more to come shows that we do have assets/situations to leverage

not sure why u can't see that

hard to answer soooooooooo many mccain bashers - i do my best i assure u - and i imagine it's never to ur liking

as for my own entertainment ............ i love music, movies, talking to people, surfing, cycling, relationships .........

thanks for asking

Signing a piece of paper with Poland is meaningless -- it's a show, and Putin knows it, or he wouldn't be threatening Poland with force if it goes through with this. He knows, unlike you, that the U.S. can do nothing to stop Russian forces from smashing into Poland to punish them for their audacity.
As a recent editorial in several newspapers around the country put it, "Russia Does What It Does Because It Can". They're acting the part of an eighteenth-century empire, throwing their weight around anywhere they can get away with it. They intend to dominate the countries on their borders again, and unless we have actual, substantial amounts of troops to put in the way, Russia will only laugh at agreements. Putin understands a very basic truth about relations between nations: power wins, for the one with the will to use it. And the fact of the matter is that at present the U.S. is overextended; we have no power to back up stern talk.
If McCain were willing to pull out of Korea and a dozen other places, we might be able to scrape together enough force to give Putin pause. And if he does, his antagonistic bluster just might do the trick -- after all, one of the reasons the Russians/Soviets backed down in front of Reagan is that they believed he just might do what he joked about... and as a result their economy took its final tilt toward collapse, and the Soviet Union came apart. But this time would be different: there's nothing to come apart; "Mother Russia" is isolated. They call Russian the "bear" not for nothing, and baiting a bear isn't bright.
Putin is holding a winning hand, in many ways. He knows McCain's bluster is just wind, just as he knows that Obama's words have been fumbling.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ They've depended on the U.S. for so long, do they still have the backbone?

 

[Spensed]

^ They've depended on the U.S. for so long, do they still have the backbone?

Not sure many people over there would agree that the co-dependence runs one way.

They managed well or not so well for centuries before U.S. dependence and will probably struggle by with or without us.

The real global U.S. issue isn't Europe's backbone. It's whether the U.S. will have the backbone to deal with it's own current enabler, China.

 

[naked gent]

As a recent editorial in several newspapers around the country put it, "Russia Does What It Does Because It Can". They intend to dominate the countries on their borders again, and unless we have actual, substantial amounts of troops to put in the way, Russia will only laugh at agreements.

Kul I agree with you up to a point. Iraqi war or not we're no more likely to commit troops to Georgia today than we were when martial law was declared in Poland in 1981.

Neither are a matter of national security for us and, neocons aside, that still is the criteria for military intervention......isn't it?

While its true that Russia "does what does because it can" it couldn't do much about Kosovo which, to some extent, Georgia is payback for.

Its reach seems to extend only to those countries which border it and as long as thats the case I don't see us using troops to settle the matter.

If John McCain thinks differently I'd like to see him take that to the american voting public, after all isn't that what elections are supposed to be all about?

 

[Chalchalero]

Ok, so let's list all the presidents who didn't need "on-the-job learning", and perhaps also define the term first.

Bad arguments are everywhere.

And it is *Barack.

I agree.

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how someone can learn to be President without ever having already been? This is a red herring.