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Be Careful what you wish for

My point was that this is apparently as high as Pelosi's aspirations go. This is literally what she considers the top issues facing the country (along with the minimum wage, I suppose). So don't look for anything earthshaking in the next two years.
 
No, those are the issues she thinks we have a chance to actually do something about right now.

Don't blame her for trying to be realistic.

And don't ignore the return to more normal House rules which she has planned, that is no small thing.

-D
 
Kulindahr said:
I thought Chance was a Democrat?

Faux General, if you want others to speak with a civil tongue, maybe you should.
Faux libertarian heal thy self, if you will. We are in the majority, Mr. "Party of Five," Mr. "Can't even fill an Applebees with your national convention" libertarian. You guys didn't even muster the acumen to elect a dog catcher, so please, do not lecture me on anything. As to "Chance being right," Mister, you AND he are in the minority. We will tell you when you are right and when you are wrong. Sit back and enjoy the ride, or be deported!

Your response proves you haven't got down the matter in my quote. You need to take lessons from Chance; he is irredeemably civil.

Nor do you seem literate enough to know what "faux" means.

And since you rarely seem to care about facts, I don't suppose it would matter to you that the local LPO convention fills a good-sized Marriot.

Finally, congratulations on your very GOP police-state attitude toward those who disagree with you!
 
I love the Republican gloom about the dems because they couldn't possibly fuck it up worse than Bush has done.

Well, yes, they could:

they could cut and run, leaving Iraq to become another fundamentalist Islamofascist state.

they could cut and run, leaving thousands of civilians who trust us to die, like we did in Vietnam.

they could cut and run, showing the world once again that America can't be depended on to see anything through.
 
If nothing else, I think the American people have finally 'woken up' about their own responsibility to vote and ensure that the government we have and the one they want are the same. For too long, as a people, we have shown FAR too much apathy towards the politics of the country, and look where it got us.

People were saying that exact same thing when the Republicans took Congress 'way back whenever.

Which just goes to show that when people here say "It's a whole new game!", they could hardly be more wrong: it's the same old game, flip side -- Donkeys and Elephants instead of heads and tails, here we go, toss it... but it's still the same cheap coin of 98% alloy.
 
Oh, yes, chance1 is truly the very flower of a well-mannered winger, writing that gays should wear a "napkin," that we are "ladies," too. Doubtless you graduated from the same "Little Shaver Skool of Social Intercourse." And look at the push-back from those comments: you lost the House and the Senate.

If you are unable to comport yourself in a manner that reflects our newly-invigorated democracy, get out -- just get out. We don't need no stinkin' party poopers from Table Seven.

Could you please learn at least to think straight? We already know you can't keep your facts straight.

I never had the House (wouldn't want it) or the Senate (I might take it if it was offered).

I like that last bit -- proof positive of my description of Democrats earlier.
 
Funny, when the Armed Forces recruiter canvassed the Table Seven Libertarians, those helium-heeled ladies kept their hands flat in their lap. Someone has to fight and die for their beliefs, but not the buffet-busting "all you can eat" LIEburrrrrtarians... why is that, Table Seven leader?

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you? You sound off so high and mighty and attract a following that cheers your empty-headed pseudo-rhetoric, but you're clueless!

I advise you to go back and read the issues of Reason, Liberty, The Libertarian, and other such since six months before Iraq. In case you decline this educational offer, I give you this tidbit: a number of Libertarians volunteered and went to Afghanistan, and are still serving while Democrats in Congress cry, "Run away!" at the sight of a white bunny.
As for Iraq, since when do any libertarian beliefs require the invasion of a foreign country?
 
People were saying that exact same thing when the Republicans took Congress 'way back whenever.

Which just goes to show that when people here say "It's a whole new game!", they could hardly be more wrong: it's the same old game, flip side -- Donkeys and Elephants instead of heads and tails, here we go, toss it... but it's still the same cheap coin of 98% alloy.

I couldn't agree more Kulindahr. As Pete Townshend timelessly put it over 30yrs ago "meet the new boss.....same as the old boss."
 
Will Nancy Pelosi use her power to waste valuable time investigating the Bush Admin or instead put forth an agenda that she/her party believe will benefit the country.

Will Charlie Rangel spend more time decorating Cheney's old office than figuring out how to finance the govt?

Will they push for a deadline to pull out of Iraq? or reduce funding?

Tough tough decisions to make - and the Dems will have to make them - or appear just as ineffective as the Republicans

This is what they wanted - or is it?

Put up or shut up time

Hm... congress is constitutionally obligated to oversee the executive branch. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid don't have to "Choose" between investigations and pushing forward their agenda. They should (and will) do both.

It's silly to say, "Or is it?" relating to whether or not they wanted to retake congress. They did, and the American people wanted them to also. The reason Republicans didn't "seem" effective is because they have done nothing but kowtow to the executive branch for the last four years, which is a break from their constitutionally defined responsibilities.

I sense though that your post was meant to be more snarky than serious. I mean do you really think the Democrats are just going to flail their hands around and go, "Governing is too hard!" They've governed effectively before and they will again. Our country has always propsered during times of divided government.
 
Well, yes, they could:

they could cut and run, leaving Iraq to become another fundamentalist Islamofascist state.

they could cut and run, leaving thousands of civilians who trust us to die, like we did in Vietnam.

they could cut and run, showing the world once again that America can't be depended on to see anything through.

Uh... No they couldn't, because the House and Senate don't set foreign policy, the President does.
 
seapuppy said:
My ideological differences with the Democrats on their belief's in neo-isolationism, higher taxes, expansion of government's scope and role, resistance to education reform, addiction to "international" control over American policies, gun control, abortion, Kyoto, etc., etc., ...are always going to be there. It is why I am a conservative. I am not a "bomb thrower" however...unlike some on CE & P. I sincerely wish the new Democratic Congress luck in solving some of the countries problems. I hope the Republicans will become the loyal opposition that I can be proud of.

Its a fine list seapuppy but exactly when did isolationism stop being a tenet of conservative thought?

I liked conservatives better when they used to say we couldn't be the world's policeman.
 
chance

you have tried to make me believe in the past that you are an independant guy who sees both good and bad in both parties

soo...

why dont you tell us some of the good in the democratic controlled congress?

cause you really are looking kind of dejected and sour grapy to tell you the truth.

good to have u back Andreus - were you on the campaign trail?

For one, I have not tried to make you believe anything. I am a registered Dem who voted that way this election. I would have voted for Webb - I would have voted for Harold Ford - and others. Republicans made their bed and the voting public said enough is enough. Between the corruption in Congress and the inability for Bush to communicate why we need to win in Iraq and execute a plan to do so, frankly the Dems should have won by more. Who the fuck could say "I believe in what is going on"

Some of the good I think Congress can do would be:

1 - Making college educations more affordable. Private schools are $40K+ a year and rising. While some states have terrific public universities, just not enough. Too much of an advantage for the rich and the poor (they get assistance). The middle class gets wiped out. I like the idea of tax deductible college tuition. It truly is an invst in the future

2 - I support increasing the minimum wage - that appears like it will happen

3 - I think there needs to be a bipartisan commission on the the Iraq situation where outsiders (elder statesmen, retired military +) plus key member of Congress - discuss HOW TO WIN. If the discussion is on HOW TO GET OUT, everyone loses.

4 - I hope they can devise a plan to improve the health care system - costs are rising at alarming rates - something needs to be done there

I am hopeful that Harry Reid who has disappointed me in the past by doing 1 too many Howard Dean imitations, means what he said the day after the results. He said all the right things about getting results, not "payback". Let's see. I hope he and Pelosi do the right thing. Seems like if it was up to the JUB Board, that would not be the case

Hugs and kisses to my dear friend Alfie - who continues to soar to new obnoxious heights (!) with personal attacks for all - sounds like an Alfie Christmas wish
 
Uh... No they couldn't, because the House and Senate don't set foreign policy, the President does.

As a recent column in U S News and World Report observed, the Democrats, given their attitude, may try to set foreign policy by power of the purse. It's risky, but if they feel they have this massive weight of public opinion behind them, who knows?
 
I am a registered Dem who voted that way this election.

Hugs and kisses to my dear friend Alfie - who continues to soar to new obnoxious heights (!) with personal attacks for all - sounds like an Alfie Christmas wish.

I put those two bits together because, well, Alfie kept saying YOU had "lost" this election. You'd think he'd know who's on "his" team, if he's this great leader people swoon over -- no?

Some of the good I think Congress can do would be:

1 - Making college educations more affordable. Private schools are $40K+ a year and rising. While some states have terrific public universities, just not enough. Too much of an advantage for the rich and the poor (they get assistance). The middle class gets wiped out. I like the idea of tax deductible college tuition. It truly is an invst in the future

They could start by undoing some of the stupid things that were snuck into Reagan's tax "reform", like stop calling scholarships "income" (or have they fixed that yet?). I'd also recommend not counting work-study jobs as income, since they're provided as part of an educational aid package.

One thing that would help a lot would be ditching 90% of federal meddling in the colleges. One of my professors when I was at OSU spent a day's lecture on the costs of higher education; one of his big points was that when he had begun as a professor, there was a president of the school, and a vice president. That number had risen to one president with a special assistant and fourteen vice presidents with assistants... and secretaries, and office space. At $80,000-plus each, plus $60,000+ per assistant nd $40,000+ per secretary, just the personnel cost increase was over $2 million. I forget his office space figures, but they weren't small. He graphed that growth against tuition increases -- then added expense after expense in personnel and office space just for complying with federal requirements, and it came to roughly half the tuition increases over time.

2 - I support increasing the minimum wage - that appears like it will happen

And as always, people will lose jobs. Oregon's minimum wage has been climbing incrementally for some time, and every time an increase kicks in, people lose jobs -- this isn't theory; I know some of those people, and their bosses made it quite plain: "We can't afford to pay this many of you at the new minimum, so some of you have to go."
If we as a society think we have to have a wage scale, there should be a scale -- a beginning wage, before the minimum, for starters. When I manned the Libertarian booth at the county fair a few years back, I talked to quite a few high school kids who were bitter about minimum wage increases, because they regularly lost their jobs. I also heard from business owners who would have gladly paid a kid $5/hr to sweep the sidewalk and street out front, or haul the recycling out, etc. -- but since they couldn't afford to pay the minimum wage, those things didn't get done. A barber I used to go to (his shop has since closed; he had a stroke) observed that the more the minimum wage goes up, the dirtier the town got. My dad agreed; it's a little town he grew up in, and he remembers when several businesses went together to hire a kid who would chase the smallest piece of trash that appeared -- the job was to sit and watch the main street, and keep it clean. Now, no one can afford to pay someone for that, so the streets are filthy.
I know the theory behind a minimum wage, that the increased purchasing power at the bottom rises faster than the resultant inflation, but it also totally removes purchasing power from some, and eliminates some jobs from getting done at all. And it has another, more sinister result: many, many senior citizens in this country are on fixed incomes. When that wage goes up, prices go up -- that's an inevitable consequence. And when prices go up, the purchasing power of all those seniors falls... and too many are living on the edge now.
If they raise it the way a spokesperson for Pelosi said on the news tonight, jumping it right up to over $7, all those negative effects will hit hard. If they somehow are convinced it MUST be that high, at least they should follow Oregon's route, and do it incrementally -- no more than 50 cents a year, for however many years it takes to reach, oh, $7.50.

3 - I think there needs to be a bipartisan commission on the the Iraq situation where outsiders (elder statesmen, retired military +) plus key member of Congress - discuss HOW TO WIN. If the discussion is on HOW TO GET OUT, everyone loses.

Creative -- and very true. I'd suggest putting the War College to playing versions of it, and feeding their results to the commission as they play out scenarios, to give the civilians a feel for how liquid both situations and results always are. Personally, I'd exclude anyone without military service -- but not worry about rank. Sergeants have a view of war that officers rarely "get".

4 - I hope they can devise a plan to improve the health care system - costs are rising at alarming rates - something needs to be done there

The Cato Institute devised a very nice one that uses the tax code and a version of negative income tax. It avoids any new bureaucracy, which is a HUGE bonus.


I didn't expect to write that much; sorry for any eye strain.
 
c'mon chance ! after the follies of the last several years of this republican regime, ia m not ashamed to say that i am gloating !!!!
it has been a nice few days!
we have checks and balances again!!!

Well, to be accurate, we have some checks and balances we lacked, but with a Democrat Congress, we just lost others.
 
I enjoyed the history lesson seapuppy and I agree with your conclusion although we probably disagree on the cause. I'm more likely to believe that when republican economic interests were confined to these shores they were a high tariff isolationist party and that in the post WW2 world as their investments flowed overseas their isolationist days were behind them.

And I also agree that it is funny how the parties switch on these and other issues. The human rights based foreign policy that Jimmy Carter got so much abuse for has more than a slight echo in the Bush foreign policy of today.

However, since you are a conservative republican I assume you voted for G. Bush in 2000 and during that election he advocated a foreign policy which was "humble" and disdained the Clinton attempts at nation building. (evidently his instincts were correct)

We don't agree on the threat posed by militant islam. I know from previous posts of yours that you see it as a serious one while I think its completely overblown. Its the new justification for the expansion of that military-industrial complex which Eisenhower warned us about. I don't doubt there are a few loopy muslims out there who wish us harm but movements based on ideology and not connected to winning control over land historically fail. Men fight for many different reasons but they only fight over one thing and thats land.

Which is why Afghanistan and Somalia are a concern but Iraq is not. That country has way too much oil to be concerned with helping terrorists. The world economy which Al Qadea would like to destroy is the same world economy which will make the Iraqi's rich. There is no common interest there.

Finally I'd like to respond to a comment you have posted recently about the support the former residents of south vietnam give to the republican party. You have voiced the common republican line about how the democrats deserted them in the 70's and thats why now they are the most loyal republican voting block.

When Nixon came to office there were 550,000 combat troops in south vietnam and when he left there were none. In 1974 the democratic congress did cut off all funding to what was a very corrupt south vietnamese goverment. You should consider who it was that made it out of the south and came here (the connected) and wonder why they don't hate the party which withdrew all the troops but do hate the party which took their money away.

The south vietnamese army was never a quality fighting force. They didn't loose to the north because they ran out of bullets as might be suggested from a cutoff of funds. They lost because they faced a superior army which was viewed by a majority of the country as a nationalistic force. When he withdrew our forces out of the south Nixon caved into a north demand that any forces the north currently had in the south could remain there. That was the selling out of south vietnam. The fact that those who left the south and came here care less about that sellout and more about the money should tell you all you need to know about them and why their country lost a war.
 
Pelosi has been right dead on about the war on terror, all along.

the war against terrorists exists in afghanistan, not Iraq.

the taliban is reforming itself and osama is still at large while MANY americans died to fight a war in Iraq that every reason for beginning has now turned out to be a lie.

our presence in Iraq created many terrorists there and while a great many of the men in the concentration camps of america may have not started out as terrorists, you can bet that they hate america now.

what this has done is made americans LESS safe, not more.
 
o.k then i forgive you chance....but why thee hell are you so down on the dems then?.........................p.s. that is a hot guy in your avatar...is that you...if it is i'd let you watch bill o'reilly while i blow you!!!!

Kenny - not down on the Dems - I'm down on the extreme wing of that party that believes in bomb throwing (except against terrorists), extreme partisanship, America is at fault doctrines, terrorists are people too ideas, etc. There are a MINORITY that unfortunately are in positions of power or PERCEIVED power. They have NOT been given any kind of mandate yet just may wrestle the reigns from the more pragmatic and capable Dems who would run the country just fine. I hope not but you never know. These are people who feel like Alfie. Fuck the Republicans - Fuck even harder the moderate Dems (they are turncoats) - payback is more important than fixing the country, etc.

The avatar is not me - LOL. Not sure you would mind blowing me - but you having to hear Bill's Talking Points Memo might be considered a violation of the Geneva Convention.

Be good
 
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