Becoming a slave

[Lube]

My main concern is simply one of self worth. From your blogs etc it is apparent to me that you are very much a 'lost soul' searching for 'something'. Whilst I can appreciate that this opportunity will give you a purpose and the feeling of worth and love,

Here's another way to think about it.

In straight relationships, there is sexual dimorphism: men are generally larger and more muscular than women (they are, on average, 4 inches taller, for example, and have more muscle compared to fat than the female body). In Western society, society (and porn) idealizes a big strong man with a delicate woman. Stereotypes, yes, but you can't deny our physical bodies contribute to this (again, women being on average smaller than men).

Gay men have no such delineation. That's both good and bad. Good because it means we can define our relationships any way we want. Bad because there is no natural delineation between the two guys in a relationship. Many guys like it that way. But some guys don't.

And this desire for separation of roles (by some gay men, and lesbians) has resulted in many subcultures, which, when you think about it, are amazingly alike:

• Daddy/son
• Bear/cub
• Master/slave
• Dom/sub

They have different names, but are they really all that different?

It's one guy looking to submit (or at the very least, look up) to another. It may be based on furriness (bear/cub) or age (Daddy/son) or power (Master/slave, Dom/sub) or anything they choose to base it on.

But it's usually one guy who's looking for guidance. In life, love, happiness, goals.

Isn't that what we all think GDude needs?

 

[quasar]

...It's one guy looking to submit (or at the very least, look up) to another. It may be based on furriness (bear/cub) or age (Daddy/son) or power (Master/slave, Dom/sub) or anything they choose to base it on.

But it's usually one guy who's looking for guidance. In life, love, happiness, goals.

Isn't that what we all think GDude needs?

I wasn't looking at it from a physical dominant/submissive relationship perspective. My concern is that this option isn't used as a way to avoid 'real' life. By all means there is nothing wrong with role play as part of one's sexual fantasy - but there is a problem when there is no clear line between fantasy and reality.

ie. Gdude should be loved and find happiness by being the actual person he IS, not the personna he 'plays'.

Sorry if there was confusion.

 

[Lube]

I wasn't looking at it from a physical dominant/submissive relationship perspective. My concern is that this option isn't used as a way to avoid 'real' life. By all means there is nothing wrong with role play as part of one's sexual fantasy - but there is a problem when there is no clear line between fantasy and reality.

ie. Gdude should be loved and find happiness by being the actual person he IS, not the personna he 'plays'.

Sorry if there was confusion.

Everybody plays a personna--multiple personnas. You're one person to your parents; another to your straight friends; yet another to your gay lover. You're Dave or Quasar or A Little Imp or a JUB Moderator. You could be MasterDave on another forum, for all I know.

Why do you think there is no clear line between fantasy and reality in a Leather/BDSM relationship? Don't you think those relationships would fail? What is your knowledge of this community based on? Porn? Stories? "Contracts" you've seen circulating on the web? Innuendo & rumor? I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest.

 

[quasar]

Everybody plays a personna--multiple personnas. You're one person to your parents; another to your straight friends; yet another to your gay lover. You're Dave or Quasar or A Little Imp or a JUB Moderator. You could be MasterDave on another forum, for all I know.

Why do you think there is no clear line between fantasy and reality in a Leather/BDSM relationship? Don't you think those relationships would fail? What is your knowledge of this community based on? Porn? Stories? "Contracts" you've seen circulating on the web? Innuendo & rumor? I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest.

Actually, other than the minute details of my sex life and my financial details, I'm the same person to everyone - my parents, straight friends etc - even online.

Again, you're either missing the point or I'm not being clear enough. My issue isn't whether its a BDSM relationship or a chub/chaser or a princess/prince. I'm simply concerned that role play doesn't become a substitute for reality - because that's the impression I get from gdude. For my other friends who are in BDSM relationships, the BDSM side of it remains in the bedroom and doesn't spill out into their everyday lives - perhaps they are not normal BDSM couples?

I'll happily hold my hands up and say that maybe I'm not seeing the situation correctly, however, personally, all I see is someone in a vulnerable state of mind running away from real life, by placing too much emphasis on Sir.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

I wanna hear more about the dinner etiquette...

 

[Fire]

No, but what it does mean is that, before quoting it, you should think about what has happened in the past and ponder about whether there are correlations with what is happening now.

Please read up on the community before criticizing it so harshly. Ignorance is not bliss. Thanks.

Could you be more patronizing?

I made it clear that I don't take a stance on this issue, nor do I oppose the ultimate point you're trying to argue, simply the way you are arguing it. You insist on drawing speculative comparisons between homosexuality to BDSM which are spotty at best, positing them as given but doing little to actually prove as much (at least as of last night), instead using those conclusions to dismiss seemingly out-of-hand those who disagree with you as prudes and hypocrites: "The problem is not with the behavior, but is instead with you."

Now in replying to me you've passed over the points I made, turned me into your opponent, and then dismissed me as over-critical and ignorant of an issue I wasn't trying to argue against.

People have a natural tendency to think anything that they don't like is wrong.

You're certainly right, and that may be what's going on here, but it is not necessarily the case no matter how obvious it may seem to you. By imagining that this suspicion is fact, you give yourself carte blanche to disregard someone's entire stance instead of addressing their concerns. Wittingly or unwittingly, in this way you have stifled debate and lowered the level of discussion.

 

[Lube]

Could you be more patronizing?

I won't get into a debate on the forums about how I phrase things, because it's totally off topic. What I find patronizing is the JUB Morality Police placing judgment on GDude, regarding something that they know nothing about, and clearly refuse to research before posting again.

Wittingly or unwittingly, in this way you have stifled debate and lowered the level of discussion.

On the contrary, I have PMed with several people and feel I have educated them, not bullied them. And I thought my post about the correlation between Daddy/son and Dom/sub to be quite educational. No, it's not Ph.D. research, but I feel it contributed a lot more to the conversation than "You need professional help" which is what most people said.

 

[gdude30]

Quasar.

You really are smart. But if you put it like that. Before I was 16 I would use the internet to escape life. And now that I think about it. Maybe my original intentions were to use this lifestyle to escape life. Actually in fact. Those were the original intentions. There is no quesiton about that. And I rushed alot and desperately looked for a master.

I think Sir and Slave noticed this. That may be partly why they said "Okay you can come over and observe our lifestyle and there will be no pressure on sex or anything. That way you can observe the lifestyle in the safest way"

Or something like that. And the very first time I went over there they diddn't put on their leather and get out their fantasy whips, wax, and start tying each other up. They just acted like anyone else does in a house except slave would get things for Sir when he was asked to and always used Sir in his sentances. That's sort of protocol.

So I learned what the lifestyle really was. And even when naked and collared. It's not like that means sex is going to happen. It's a little bit like nudists actually. It's interesting. And not all masters have subs naked and collared. It was really wierd to do normal things and even eat dinner naked and collared. It wasn't some kinky thing. It just felt natural.

And like I said I have really grown to like Sir and Slave.

And tell me. I someone who practices alot for their driving test, does a good job at work, spends time with his family, and hangs out with friends sometimes someone who cannot tell reality from fantasy.

I won't say I don't enjoy seeing Sir and Slave and see them whenever I can. But it's nice to be home sometimes too.

Alot has changed since then. I don't obsess over the lifestyle anymore. I enjoy it. And I enjoy that Sir and Slave have both been my guide and helped me alot. I am wondering if maybe what i was looking for more then the lifestyle was a guide. My teacher told me that it's possible to get through life without a guide. But really difficult. And when you think of it a master sounds like someone who would be a guide. I won't say I wasn't interesting in the kink side of it. But the spiritual side interested me as well.

Diddn't anyone ever see my thread in the philosophy and religion subject about the matter. That was before I even got into it. It was just speculation. Regardless of what people here think I think they had reason to concern but those reasons aren't really valid anymore.

So basically. I ain't running away anymore. Besides. Running is exhausting.

By what you were saying before Quasar. I think you are a little confused thought. But part of what you are saying used to be valid.

These matters seem to be the reasons many of the individuals have posted against this decision of yours, but were unable to express them fully, or intelligently.

Uhm..yeah. Thank you for being one of the few to respond after reading.

Because you were so nice at responding I'll give you the response you want.

Here is my main concern. You always have a way out, and you appear to know that. You have the right and ability at any time to end this role-play and go away. I want you to specifically reply to this paragraph and indicate that you fully recognize and acknowledge this.

Yes I know. And Sir and Slave have both told me that. Of course it would probably disappoint them. But they'd understand and accept if I was to leave at some time. Of course I know they'd want an explanation and I'd give them one.

Clarify his expectations as to the extent of a life you will have outside of the house. Will you earn your own income? Will you maintain full autonomy over your financial matters? this means that your accounts have your name ONLY and that you do NOT share your PIN with him. (this is of course excluding your parents) Will you be allowed to maintain, develop and grow personal relationships outside of the Sir/Slave relationship at your own discretion and without recourse?

The only financial matters that we have discussed is that Sir thinks I should get a savings account to save money. And I paid for my haircut when I got it the other day. I've offered to pay for dinner in the past but because I diddn't have a job back then Sir diddn't think I should spend the money since I did not have much. I have a feeling now that I am working I can easily just suggest we go somewhere for dinner and say it's on me or something like that.

The reason why we haven't discussed financial matters is because there really is no reason to. I am not going to be a full time slave. I am not exactly sure how him and his slave deal with money. But his slave lives with him. From what I've gotten so far I've been told to do certain things like post something in my profile on dating sites and to write him a journal of what I do each day. He said there will be some more. But this weekend his is working on typing up official instructions and what will be expected in a documented form. And if I disagree with something then we can discuss it. And if it ever gets to the point like he wants my pin number or my money then I will seriously talk to him about that. I say for the time being I won't let him do that. I would have to be making alot more money, get to know him better, and really trust him and probably live with him for me to do something like that. It also depends on what goes on with this economy. But to make you feel better Orion next time I talk to him I will talk to him in depth about that. But i have a feeling that won't be something that I'll deal with for quite some time now. Just becuase of my age and position in life.

But I'll make sure.

It depends on what you mean by relationships. I am allowed to have friends and go to my usual social groups. I don't really have that many friends to begin with though. Although I am nervous about Youth Pride Sir suggests it's a good idea for me to go back there and see if I can make friends my own age since he knows I fear that.

Something we have all talked about is my wonder if I am better off with a single master. And I used to worry about that more but not so much now. But as it stands right now I'm not really ready for most of the masters out there. If it ever came to a point where I was happy with Sir and Slave and then out of nowhere a single master contacted me and we got along well and I started to like him then I'd talk to Sir and Slave about that.

But basically. I'm not really looking for a relationship. Although I do know what that collar I will recieve represents. And I do realize that by wearing Sir's collar and by being Sir's in some ways that is like a relationship. That's partly why Sir doesn't want me having sex with others too. If you were in a relationship with someone you wouldn't cheat on them would you? But like I said. This is going to be a 3 month trial. And it will officially start once I recieve the collar. So it's not like I'm agreeing to be in this relationship that I'm not sure if I'm ready for or not. Like Slave said. It's like the time I've spent with them so far is dating. And that now it's like getting engaged. And after the 3 months if I agree to still be with them and want that. Then that would be like marriage I guess. That's just if you compare it to a straight or normal relationship

And as Joe has brought up. To what level is the relationship carried out? Public humiliation has been played out in front of my eyes and I personally view it as to be avoided. Though I doubt Sir goes this route it seems as though he has shown a genuine interest in developing you into a confident and personable young man. If his intention is to (so to speak) build a confident and outgoing sub who maintains full autonomy over his life, then I guess I support you absolutely and wholly.

I talked to Sir about that. And I've learned about that a while back. Because a friend of mine has seen that happen in a bar before and he tried to stop the guy from beating the girl and she clawed him and attacked him. Because it was a turn on for her and she liked it.

Some people do like public humilation and some slaves will intentionally mess up or get in trouble to be spanked or humilated in public. Or the dom might just get off doing that. But that kind of thing is for show.

I got in trouble once when I was in the car with Sir. I did not listen to him because I was being stubborn and he said I was getting a spanking when I got home. ANd I got one and damn did it sting >_>". He could have easily pulled over and spanked me in the car or on the side of the road. Some doms would do that.

He said in public too that he wouldn't spank me. He said if it's at a leather group or party though then it would be different. But with the MasT meetings. Protocols are not to be enforced. The reason is some slaves aren't even allowed to speak unless their master gives them permission. And it's good cause the subs are in one room and can talk and the dooms are in another. And then they all merge some time later. That was really interesting going to. I think I am more into servicing and pleasing then humiliation. I've even told both Sir and Slave that i hate it when a dom or fake dom calls a guy a bitch, slut, or whore, unless it's in a loving or joking way. Slave told me that sir has never called him a bitch, slut, or a whore. Even online if I am talking to a dom and he calls me a bitch or a slut I tell I don't find that a turn on and either say goodbye or something like that. Because I know enough about myself to know that i'm not a bitch, slut, or a whore. But some people with low self esteem while be humilated and called a bitch or a slut and agree to it even if they don't think they are just to make the dom happy. And then probably feel bad after it later.

So you know a poly dom sub relationship huh. That's interesting. I haven't heard anything bad or good about a poly relationship with doms and subs. I have heard good things about a poly relationship with guys though. And even two guys and a woman. But I don't wanna drift off topic.

Quasar. Is me being someone who follows proctols, cares about how he looks, has higher self esteem, and follows table ettiquite someone who, "plays someone"

And was me telling my dad that the proper thing to do is to use a knife to put butter on your plate and then use that slab of butter on the plate to put on bread. Not directly from better stick to the bread me playing a false me?

Answer that for me. Because honestly I don't think that is. I think that's growth and change.

Thanks again Lube for defending the lifestyle. It's a never ending battle isn't it T_T"

And thanks again Alley. I'm glad that I got to meet you and the others. I don't think you can explain the bond that is made once you meet someone and get to know them verses reading their posts and blogs on a forum. That is something that they can only learn about by experiencing it.

You have done alot Lube. It is much better then going "OMG YOU NEED JESUS I MEAN DOCTOR"

HEY. I just noticed something.

"You need jesus"

"You need help"

Why do those sound so familar..

I wonder...

The problem is that lots of people think older and younger together are sick and perverted people. And that big hairy bears are just fat overweight mean who don't know how to take care of themselves. That masters and slaves are people who don't know reality from fantasy and are kinky and scary. And the list goes on. The misconceptions, stereotype, and fears of some of the sub cultures in the gay community is really sad.

It's like you said Lube. People will always hate and dismiss things they don't understand or what scares them.

 

[Lube]

It's like you said Lube. People will always hate and dismiss things they don't understand or what scares them.

Thanks, GDude.

For those who want to read a little bit about the controversy in the next revision of the DSM with respect to bondage, fetishism, etc., there's this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24664654/

 

[jackoroe]

OK, I've had to tidy up around here since my fellow mods visit.

I realize that the OP's questions and seeking advice have caused an emotional response. I would remind everybody this is a no flame zone. Address the issue at hand, not each other. And unless you are a doctor, I don't think it appropriate that you try and diagnose this young man.

Now that having been said, let's address this whole slave issue. I've not had much contact with it, to be truthful. I've done my share of ropes, paddling and such. But I've never contemplated simply surrendering my existence to another. That's beyond my comprehension and life experience.

But it's not my my life we're talking about, it's Gdude's. Let me say this to you, GDude. So long as your making an informed decision and you've done your due diligence as it relates to this undertaking, I wish you all the success in your choice.

Some posters have brought up good issues of health insurance and transportation issues. These are things you need to consider. What kind of life experiences will you still be able to participate in? What if it doesn't work out? Where will you go? What will you do? I think you need to have some contingency plans in such an eventuality.

I don't believe this kind of fetish is a mental illness any more than Homosexuality is a mental illness. It was considered such up until the early 1970's. Straight people also engage in this type of behavior, so it isn't exclusive to our community.

GDude, your life is a gift from God. We have free will to do with it what we will. I hope you have the intelligence and wisdom to do what is right for you. I support your right to choose for yourself. And I wish you well, whatever you may choose.

 

[Lube]

I just searched a Yahoo group and found this recent posting. Maybe it will give some people a better of idea of what's involved in a Master/slave relationship. Keep in mind this is one relationship. Every relationship is different just as every vanilla straight or gay relationship is different:

At least in my case, the "balance of power" doesn't reverse and "swing the other way". My Sir is Alpha in the household. He is "in charge" at all times and in all things. That is not to say I have no voice, opinion nor contribution. I am encouraged to contribute. I am encouraged to live my life, enjoy my pleasures, explore my interests, etc. There is a move anticipated in the very near future. His finances are the ones taken most into consideration as His are the more valuable. However, I am encouraged to travel with Him to view potential homes to purchase and cities in which to make a home. "Sex" and the "S&M" elements of sex are not the primary focus. They are a facet of the dynamic. Companionship, sharing of life and all the elements life contains are the focus. Making a home, creating a life, a future together are the prime focuses.

I am kept in the loop on all financial decisions and given a voice in them. My opinion is sought and considered, much in the manner a good husband considers a good wife's opinion and desires. But, Sir IS in charge. HE IS Alpha. It is not a "worship" situation. He is not arrogant nor delusional. He functions best being the one in charge, in control. We both understand that. He also understands I don't function well with a heavy handed approach. He allows me the freedom to negotiate. As He stated it ten years ago, both in a "relationship" must get what each needs or it is doomed to fail. We respect each other and allow each other privacy. We never interfere in each other's family and family time. We respect each other's "limits". If I don't agree with something, I am free to express myself, and know I am more likely to be taken into greater consideration as long as I present my case and opinion in the appropriate manner. It is not a "militaristic" situation, other than He is Alpha. Otherwise, conversation and interaction is very much as it would be in any other relationship. There is no formal, written contract. There doesn't need to be one. It would never be held up in court. There is honor and integrity, mutual respect, definitely love.

You know, a lot of these relationships are a lot like what straight relationships were like 100 years ago. The difference is that rather than being arranged marriages where the two people don't love each other (and the wife had to be completely beholden to her husband) is that these Master/slave relationships are a choice, chosen by both Master and slave. There is no coercion here.

 

[gdude30]

The safeword is "Purple"

I love that description of a lifestyle for one slave and master Lube.

That sort of describes my Sir and his slave's lifestyle. He is a strong slave. Not a pussy bitch sub boi. Those kinds of slaves shouldn't even be called slaves. They do not define what a slave is. A slave is not a bad thing either. My Sir does have the final word. But me and Slave will suggest something or negotiate. They do discuss financial matters as well. I am not involved in the financial aspect since I am only part time.

What in my opinion a true M/s relationship is this. (keep in mind every relationship is defined by the two or more people)

A sub or slave is a man or boy who has it in his nature to serve, please, or submit to another. And there is nothing wrong with that. It takes a strong person to submit or serve another. Some people are too cocky, too irritated, or too impatient to do it. It's what makes me such a damn good bus boy at work.

And all a master is one who wants to dominant, control, and train protect a sub. They both have needs that need to be met. Is it really so wrong for a master to want to want to train a slave to make the slave meet his potential, care for, and sometimes dominate a slave or a sub?

I don't see what makes it so wrong. Hell I can even say that for sadists. They are extraordinary. people. The power and control that they channel into their work. Is amazing. Both a slave or master have their roles. Once they know their roles and they find someone who can meet their needs then they can play out or live their roles and meet their needs.

Sir also understands how young and impressionable I am. Which is why he is careful about who I talk to and he will warn me about someone if he feels it will help. Or suggest things or give me commands. He just sees alot of potential in me and wants me to be the best I can be. And not just in the lifestyle. Outside of the lifestyle. Being succesful in life in general. And slowly but surely. Sir is helping me become a man.

I saw your original post molten rock. You must not have read the first post. I am not becoming a full time slave. Only part time. Meaning I live at home, I go to work, I practice driving, and I have a home life. But it does feel like I have two homes now. I haven't even entered the oh so dangerous fantasy world that everyone is talking about.

What I have done is gotten to know two really good men who care alot about me and I enjoy being with them. Sex is sex. I enjoy it with them alot more now because there is a connection there. But it really is just a small part of the experience. It is a relationship. Or becoming one anyways.

Me, Lube, and Orion shouldn't have to defend this lifestyle so much but apparently that's the way things are. It's really sad that it is this way. Because it's just an alternative of other relationships. The problem is people think it's all just kinky whips and pain and slaves that are held against their will. And some people just can't overcome the term slave used in this lifestyle and can't see past the whips, chains, wax, slings, and they completely miss the humans in the picture. And that is the problem.

And say what you want to say. But the discrimination towards this lifestyle is the same discrimination that homophobes will do to gays, religious people will do to gays or non religious people, and the whole thing about homosexuality being a disease and someone who is gay needing therapy. I really hope S/M doesn't go into that stupid DMVS book. That's complete bull.

I diddn't realize this at first. But the california results have proved it. Those who have been discriminated in the past because of race or sexuality are used to the freedom they have now and have become so concieted and blind that when they discriminate someone now they don't realize how much it mirrors the way they were treated. And it's a damn shame. This thread. Even though I know it's a forum and it's online. But just in general the way the leather, s/m, M/s lifestyle is being treated is sad. I guess the economy isn't the only thing to worry about. While I'm dissapointed I guess it can't be helped. People are entitled to their own opinions.

Anyways. Still just waiting for the guidleines from Sir. Once I get that then I can look at it and either mark it off or see if there are things that I need to negotiate. I can't wait to get my collar

 

[manofsummer]

hahaha

Why? Because I am concerned for this kid I don't know? Giving my opinion? If he wants to be a 'slave', go for it. But comparing the struggle of youth coming out, and the CHOICE to be some guys bitch, it's not the same. You will come back with a response stating its similar, and that I am still acting like a straight person. But perhaps this is exactly why some ignorant straight people oppose homosexuality. With these bizzare fantasies, and extreme behaviour. Encouraging an eighteen year old to, to get "collared". With all honesty, I don't care if he chooses to become a 'slave' or not, I was giving my opinion, and stating my concern for him, for this lifestyle, and his future. If that makes me straight, so be it. To be honest, two consenting adults can do what they please, he can screw up his life all he wants, it doesn't concern me in the slightest...but when I'm compared to a homophobic straight person, because I showed my concern, when the two issues are completely different, pisses me off, and is disgusting. I will state again, homosexuality is not a choice, to oppose you it, makes you a biggot. Whatever the hell you would call this, extreme bdsm, master/slave fantasy, is most definately a choice, and if I oppose it, or if I'm concerned about it, it doesn't even compare.
So, as I unsubscribe from this thread, Lube can continue to endorse gdudes and his fantasy. And gdude, I wish you all the best with 'sir', 'master', whoever he may be.

Don't waste your energy dude. Some jubbers view 'normal' as something relative. They will go as far as telling you that eating feces is quite sane and normal.

 

[manofsummer]

I don't believe this kind of fetish is a mental illness any more than Homosexuality is a mental illness.

Invalid argument.

Would you believe the same about feces and corpse fetish? Are you kidding yourself into thinking it's normal? Same-sex attraction is not an illness, as most people are bisexual to a degree. Being attracted to poo and to dead people, on the other hand, is indeed a mental disorder, as no sane person would eat feces.
Being aroused by a garment or a body part is not a "clinical" fetish in the real sense, but when your sexual life starts to revovle around your fetish, or when you can't achieve orgasm unless your partner is wearing leather(for example), that's when you should seak therapy.

In Gdude's case, it seems that his slave fetish has taken over his life.
In my opinion, he certainly requires to see a therapist. Your support for his fetish isn't doing him any good.

I'm a 3rd year Psychology student.

 

[najfus]

Me, Lube, and Orion shouldn't have to defend this lifestyle so much but apparently that's the way things are. It's really sad that it is this way. Because it's just an alternative of other relationships. The problem is people think it's all just kinky whips and pain and slaves that are held against their will. And some people just can't overcome the term slave used in this lifestyle and can't see past the whips, chains, wax, slings, and they completely miss the humans in the picture. And that is the problem.

I hope that my post didn't come off in that manner, as I don't hold any negative sentiment towards one's personal lifestyle (as long as everyone is an adult and is consenting). And as I mentioned, I find the S&M, BDSM, M/s communities to be interesting and awesome as long as everyone consents. It's a very unfamiliar and "scary" subject to some, thus causing confusion and distaste. It's a pretty alternative lifestyle to many people and I think it's naive to be disappointed when people don't praise or understand something completely foreign to them.

And say what you want to say. But the discrimination towards this lifestyle is the same discrimination that homophobes will do to gays, religious people will do to gays or non religious people, and the whole thing about homosexuality being a disease and someone who is gay needing therapy. I really hope S/M doesn't go into that stupid DMVS book. That's complete bull.

I personally find it to be a hard sell comparing the discrimination against homosexuality and this particular lifestyle. No doubt, there has been complete discrimination towards the lifestyle you're interested in but I really see no connection to being gay. That is a lifestyle choice, whereas I don't find homosexuality to be a choice or a lifestyle. You could make the same argument for polygamy and the lifestyle choices that come along with that. Some people are huge proponents, others are not- I think the same applies to the lifestyle choice that you're interested in. But again- I don't see any connection to homosexuality.

I diddn't realize this at first. But the california results have proved it. Those who have been discriminated in the past because of race or sexuality are used to the freedom they have now and have become so concieted and blind that when they discriminate someone now they don't realize how much it mirrors the way they were treated. And it's a damn shame. This thread. Even though I know it's a forum and it's online. But just in general the way the leather, s/m, M/s lifestyle is being treated is sad. I guess the economy isn't the only thing to worry about. While I'm dissapointed I guess it can't be helped. People are entitled to their own opinions.

Well, I don't know what results you're looking at but the right to marry for gays was taken away.

Anyways. Still just waiting for the guidleines from Sir. Once I get that then I can look at it and either mark it off or see if there are things that I need to negotiate. I can't wait to get my collar

Good Luck! Please let us know how that works and if you don't mind sharing, the negotiations you all agree upon. I'm curious about the way in which all of this works.

 

[Lube]

I personally find it to be a hard sell comparing the discrimination against homosexuality and this particular lifestyle. No doubt, there has been complete discrimination towards the lifestyle you're interested in but I really see no connection to being gay. That is a lifestyle choice, whereas I don't find homosexuality to be a choice or a lifestyle. You could make the same argument for polygamy and the lifestyle choices that come along with that. Some people are huge proponents, others are not- I think the same applies to the lifestyle choice that you're interested in. But again- I don't see any connection to homosexuality.

So being gay is OK only because it's genetic? Because you have no choice? So if it can be fixed through genetic engineering or a pill, we should all be turned straight?

I don't buy that argument at all.

I should be able to eat okra (OK, the okra can't consent, but too bad), fuck consenting adults of any gender, race, ethnicity, and religion, and have a consensual Master/slave lifestyle regardless of whether it's a preference, a lifestyle, a choice, or a biological necessity.

And the main objection to polygamy is quite practical--can one man support many women and dozens of children effectively? (There's also the issue of jealousy, but it doesn't seem nearly as important.) There's no good reason gays can't have polygamous relationships, is there? We don't have to worry about supporting kids created from the relationships.

 

[gdude30]

In Gdude's case, it seems that his slave fetish has taken over his life.
In my opinion, he certainly requires to see a therapist. Your support for his fetish isn't doing him any good.

I'm a 3rd year Psychology student.

And what the hell kinda school did you go to? So by studying Pyschology for some time you automatically have the power to diagnose me and even go farther by telling me that I am not helping my Sir in any way :/

Jeez. Until you become a fully licensed doctor or psychologist. You have no right to diagnose anyone.

I hope that my post didn't come off in that manner, as I don't hold any negative sentiment towards one's personal lifestyle (as long as everyone is an adult and is consenting). And as I mentioned, I find the S&M, BDSM, M/s communities to be interesting and awesome as long as everyone consents. It's a very unfamiliar and "scary" subject to some, thus causing confusion and distaste. It's a pretty alternative lifestyle to many people and I think it's naive to be disappointed when people don't praise or understand something completely foreign to them.

Yeah well..I'm naive sometimes. But you are right. I just diddn't expct for it to be actually hated to the extremes. Never expected it to be praised. Shoulda had no expectations to begin with.

I did sort of overlook that part about the gay marriage thing. I sort of forgot about that. I'm not good at making points. That's not my job.

I already said some of the negotiations. But I donno if that's just between now and the final one or not. But depending on what they are I'll see if I can share. Who knows.

But yeah I'll try to keep you and the others who are interested updated.

 

[darkdreamerx]

A mental health professional should be the first person you contact and explain your "new man" and new lifestyle "opportunity".

Seriously.

Seriously.

 

[Lube]

Seriously.

So you've just had your first sex ever, and you're judging somebody else's lifestyle based on... what exactly? Experience? Research?

Interesting.

 

[gdude30]

So you've just had your first sex ever, and you're judging somebody else's lifestyle based on... what exactly? Experience? Research?

Interesting.

It might have been sarcasm or something.

With a one word response it's really hard to interpret it.