Been seriously concerning just getting married to a woman.

[sixthson]

I always knew I could get my dick to do what it needed to do if I chose to be in a relationship with a girl. My heart was another story. If you cannot give someone an undivided heart, remain single.

A life of celibacy would be better than a life of lies.

 

[spartacus]

I tried to make everyone happy by being with a woman. Everyone was happy but me, and it completely exploded in my face and put my emotional life on hold for about a year. Sexual repression is soooooo tough. Trust me!

 

[Nomenclature]

Why is it not easier for people to tell their families to fuck off when they overstep their bounds? No family has a valid expectation that their children or grandchildren or brothers and sisters should live a lie so they themselves can "feel more comfortable."

Am I taking crazy pills or did the entire period of history since the enlightenment never happen?

Piggy, I don't know where to start. And why someone from the middle east? If you were going to save someone from a life of poverty, you need look no further than Haiti - it would probably make a greater difference to someone's life. Does that sound nuts when I put it that way? It should.

Well, your posts makes it clear: How can someone who couldn't even begin to understand what it's like to deal with family offer any constructive advice in this situation? \()/

-----

LOL I never said anything about him having a child when he's 80 but he can have a child when he's in his 40's. 50 is kind of pushing it in my opinion but he'd only be in his late 60's when his child graduated highschool which isn't too bad either.

Well, a grumpy old man who's in denial about his sexuality raising an impressionable child/teenager. . .lmao I can't imagine either one of them being happy; I think they'd just resent each other, or something.

 

[altlover85]

Nom, I think he meant he could be older and have a family with a guy. And telling your family to screw off can be the healthier option even if it's not reasonable for those in these types of situations.

 

[G-Lexington]

Pig, let me be brief.

Stop living for your family's benefit.
Start living for yours.

Lex

 

[bankside]

Well, your posts makes it clear: How can someone who couldn't even begin to understand what it's like to deal with family offer any constructive advice in this situation? ()/

I actually think telling your family to fuck off is the correct, rational, and compassionate advice when they so grossly intrude on the course of a man's own life that they would push him into marrying a woman against his nature.

I don't know where to start because it is overwhelming to be confronted by someone who is in such a desperate frame of mind due to the unthinking cruelty of people who are supposed to love and support him.

I think it's out of line to suggest I don't know how to deal with family. But thank you, now you've got me started.

 

[bankside]

Telling one's family to "fuck off" is easier said than done.

I would care less myself what my relatives thought of me or my lifestyle.

My mother on the other hand does. She's sacrificed and done things for her children to have a better life.

Image is everything to her.

Image? Piggy you're making her seem beautiful and caring on one hand, but shallow and cruel on the other. Maybe she is neither, or maybe she is both - ultimately I don't know her to judge. But if she is beautiful and caring, even just in part, how could she truly expect you to live a life of misery for a certain kind of image. How could she expect it? And how could she stand by and watch you live a fake marriage with a woman who should be entitled to a man of her own, a straight man who is exactly where he wants to be? Also, how could she stand by and watch another man go brokenhearted because you married some random woman instead of him.

If she is any of the good things you say she is, you have to expect her to live up to her better nature. The right to be yourself is not a favour she grants you, or a sacrifice she makes for you, and she can't buy your future with tears or anger or shame or guilt or her quest for the "perfect" image. It is you being who you are.

And honestly Piggy, that is so little to ask that it can't even be debated.

 

[Gamby6]

Telling one's family to "fuck off" is easier said than done.

I would care less myself what my relatives thought of me or my lifestyle.

My mother on the other hand does. She's sacrificed and done things for her children to have a better life.

Image is everything to her.

I can empathize with your situation. I came from culture in which people are taught to treat parents with utmost respect. That said, I probably could careless about the whole culture practice and would probably choose to react in disrespect if they didn't do what good parents are suppose to do. However, they sacrificed a lot to rear us and I've witnessed all those especially during my childhood years. I can't imagine myself uttering "fuck off" to them just because of this. I'd rather find other way to refuse. Anyway, fortunately, they have no desire to press me into marriage.

 

[Gamby6]

Image? Piggy you're making her seem beautiful and caring on one hand, but shallow and cruel on the other. Maybe she is neither, or maybe she is both - ultimately I don't know her to judge. But if she is beautiful and caring, even just in part, how could she truly expect you to live a life of misery for a certain kind of image.
How could she expect it? And how could she stand by and watch you live a fake marriage with a woman who should be entitled to a man of her own, a straight man who is exactly where he wants to be? Also, how could she stand by and watch another man go brokenhearted because you married some random woman instead of him.

If she is as much caring as piggy said and sacrificed for him, I seriously doubt she sees the whole thing as making his life miserable. She probably thinking this would bring joy to his life as well as making his life better. And also, I think you need to take cultural aspect into consideration as well. In some culture, parents do think this is their duty and they are doing for their children good. One chinese friend of mine pressed into marriage at 18 because his parents thought the girl they found is the best and he would never find another girl like this and would be thankful to them in the long run. In piggy's situation, I think all he needs to do is, to say not interested. I mean nowhere in his statement says she is giving pressure. It is just an offer.

 

[bankside]

Culture does not excuse cruelty to one's children. A caring parent would be more concerned about the effect of their actions on their children, rather than defending their intentions. A caring parent would react with regret at creating such a difficult situation for a child. And ultimately a caring parent would respect the honesty of their child about his own sexual orientation which surely is a requirement for happiness and harmony in the family. These are just basic principles on which culture is built. And to the extent that any culture disrespects those principles, it is in need of rebuilding.

Gamby, your chinese friend was treated badly by his parents. The parents of my Chinese friends all know better. Two of my straight chinese friends have found beautiful relationships of their own. A gay chinese friend is still looking for Mr. Right - with his parents' warm wishes and hopes.

And treating your parents with the utmost respect does not mean giving in to acting dishonourably. No one offers their parents any respect by showing cowardice and deference to a bad idea.

And ultimately respect can only be given to something worthy - an ugly idea like having a fake marriage and a fake life for the sake of image cannot be the recipient of respect. It can only lead to cowardly and shameful deference, or honourable and firm rejection. Parents should expect the best character from their children. They show that expectation by living up to their own better selves. Piggy has every right to expect that from his mom, in any culture, in any language, in any country. It is his birthright as a human being.

 

[Gamby6]

Culture does not excuse cruelty to one's children. A caring parent would be more concerned about the effect of their actions on their children, rather than defending their intentions. A caring parent would react with regret at creating such a difficult situation for a child. And ultimately a caring parent would respect the honesty of their child about his own sexual orientation which surely is a requirement for happiness and harmony in the family. These are just basic principles on which culture is built. And to the extent that any culture disrespects those principles, it is in need of rebuilding.

Do you think parents, in these culture, perceive arrange marriage as an act of cruelty? Do you think they are doing this just to make their children miserable? They don't see as the way you see. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating arrange marriage. But, you need to understand cultural aspect which causes the perception towards these situation to differ .

Gamby, your chinese friend was treated badly by his parents. The parents of my Chinese friends all know better. Two of my straight chinese friends have found beautiful relationships of their own. A gay chinese friend is still looking for Mr. Right - with his parents' warm wishes and hopes.

I'm guessing you are stating westernize chinese who no longer hold most traditional view. A friend of mine is not from western world neither his parents. And also, Chinese have different cultures within it's race. Even in a small country from SEA where I've been to, where chinese are minority, there are two kinds with two different culture; one is conservative - which demands people to do every rituals and worship spirits. These people believe they have better ability in choosing partner for their children because of life experience they have. The other one is liberal - as the name suggest, they could careless of rituals. They are less restrictive when it comes to marriage. But still, they may be viewed as controlling in western culture.

And treating your parents with the utmost respect does not mean giving in to acting dishonourably. No one offers their parents any respect by showing cowardice and deference to a bad idea.

And ultimately respect can only be given to something worthy - an ugly idea like having a fake marriage and a fake life for the sake of image cannot be the recipient of respect. It can only lead to cowardly and shameful deference, or honourable and firm rejection. Parents should expect the best character from their children. They show that expectation by living up to their own better selves. Piggy has every right to expect that from his mom, in any culture, in any language, in any country. It is his birthright as a human being.

I'm not advocating to respect parents by using someone else. Fake marriage or whatever, using somebody else to further your cause is just plain wrong. And I'm not sure why you are attacking piggy's mom when nowhere in piggy statements says he's been given pressured. What he said is he had an offer for arrange marriage. To accept or not to accept is his decision. And his mom has every right to make offer.

 

[altlover85]

This is a classic cultural difference. Western cultures place more of an emphasis on individuality and individual happiness, while other cultures place more of an emphasis on family honor. I feel it is hard for these cultures to find common ground unless a person raised in one culture accepts some of the other culture, such as the family of the one Chinese man bankside mentioned.

 

[bankside]

Do you think parents, in these culture, perceive arrange marriage as an act of cruelty? Do you think they are doing this just to make their children miserable? They don't see as the way you see. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating arrange marriage. But, you need to understand cultural aspect which causes the perception towards these situation to differ .

Well to be fair I already addressed that point: it doesn't matter how they perceive it - it is important for them to determine the real effects, and not just assume it is the right thing. That presence of mind is independent of culture

I'm guessing you are stating westernize chinese who no longer hold most traditional view. A friend of mine is not from western world neither his parents. And also, Chinese have different cultures within it's race. Even in a small country from SEA where I've been to, where chinese are minority, there are two kinds with two different culture; one is conservative - which demands people to do every rituals and worship spirits. These people believe they have better ability in choosing partner for their children because of life experience they have. The other one is liberal - as the name suggest, they could careless of rituals. They are less restrictive when it comes to marriage. But still, they may be viewed as controlling in western culture.

They are not controlling "in western culture." They are controlling, period. It isn't appropriate, particularly in view of the anguish it can cause.

I'm not advocating to respect parents by using someone else. Fake marriage or whatever, using somebody else to further your cause is just plain wrong. And I'm not sure why you are attacking piggy's mom when nowhere in piggy statements says he's been given pressured. What he said is he had an offer for arrange marriage. To accept or not to accept is his decision. And his mom has every right to make offer.

Again, I did already mention that I don't know her, obviously. I am not attacking her. I am pointing out that if she is a person of good character and compassion, she will find the strength to accept the reality that awaits her, either now, or after putting her son through much unnecessary pain and anguish. If she is not a person of good character and compassion, then honouring her wishes is a terrible thing to do anyway, and, as difficult as it is, writing off a parent is sometimes the only proper course.

You are being disingenuous when you say the family is making a simple offer, and that it is open to be accepted or not. When I visit my mom, she is kind enough to offer tea or coffee. That is a simple decision, and I can accept or not. I can easily recognize that this situation is different from the suggestion of an arranged marriage. One answer is "acceptable" and another answer is "unacceptable."

In fact it is the question which is unacceptable.

And I can only repeat that "culture" does not give permission for cruel treatment.

Piggy, sorry about the debate, I know you probably just wanted to get this off your chest and maybe you didn't even dare to hope for a clear answer to your dilemma, but I hope you are finding some hope in the different points of view.

 

[altlover85]

I'd rather have no relationship with my parents than one based on lies. I've had to make that choice before, so I'm not just talking out of my ass. Thankfully things resolved positively in my case, but that's only because I broke up with my ex. However, after making that first step, the initial issue (age-gap) wasn't an issue anymore. There is hope, however slim.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

What if you married a Lesbian Muslim who wants to have kids, but not a demanding husband?

 

[texan_slant]

With regards to gettng married -

Living a lie while not being true to others in order to protect your true self is pretty selfish.

 

[Fire]

What if you married a Lesbian Muslim

No such thing.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>I would care less myself what my relatives thought of me or my lifestyle. My mother on the other hand does.

Your mother is one of your relatives.

Lex

 

[Nomenclature]

I'm the kind of person that if it was that big of an issue for me, I'd MADE SURE I told my mom. I don't care if it destroyed her. If I was gay, it'd bother her a lot. But she'd get over it. She should love me no matter what.

Remember: it takes most of us years to come to terms with being gay. We go through stages of denial, depression, anger and bargaining before we finally accept ourselves for who we are. Piggy is probably in the Bargaining phase, based on the thread title.

If it takes us so long to finally accept it, you can hopefully understand how and why it's a bit unrealistic to demand others to instantly arrive at the Acceptance phase, simply because you're already at that point yourself by the time you finally choose to come out.


Ever since she found out three years ago, i've been watching my mother go through the same phases i've gone through; Metaphorically, i've became the adult offering my undying love, support and experience through this while she's became the angry, rebellious teenager who can't understand how or why this is happening. I felt very similar to the way she did when I was only three years into accepting I was gay, too.

 

[Deandbn]

To the OP.

There is only one reason for marraige and that is love.

It is not a little lie, it is a very big lie that affects the lives of many people. Dont do it.

Another little problem with lies is that you cannot fool yourself and eventually your little problem becomes a very big problem and you will make all the people including yourself very unhappy. So dont do it.

Not ever! Not for anyone! Including your Mother!