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Before you pop another PAXIL

  • Thread starter Thread starter Oden_grey
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ds_writr said:
Well, they are chemicals. And as chemicals, they have their effects on the brain's chemistry.

#-o OY, isn't it ironic how so much in life is all about FINDING BALANCE?


Well, it's true, though....

Myself, I'm a type II diabetic, so it's a constant 'balancing act'
to make sure my sugar is not too high, not too low, each and
every day.

By the time I hit the big 4-0, I'm sure I'll have to go on some sort
of medication, but for now I can control it with the ol' 'diet and
exercise' thing.

But, I think everyone has to find their own 'balance' with things.

What's right for one person is not right for another.

For example, red meat is supposed to be so bad for you, (every bite of steak...one step closer to death ! ;) ) But for me, I feel
at my best after eating a big ol' honking steak...go figure.

Whoops, I've gone and hijacked this thread, haven't I ? !oops!

As you were...

Josh
 
As a physician myself, I feel obligated to weigh in on this discussion.

I have personally prescribed boatloads of Paxil over the years I have been in practice. This is not, alas, because I am receiving kickbacks from SmithKline Beecham. I happen to think that for many patients Paxil happens to be the best choice. For other patients, I choose other drugs or even no drugs at all. The factors which go into this decision are extremely complex. It is entirely possible that I am doing a horrible job and have spent my career inflicting enormous damage on mankind. But I would not do what I do if I really believed that. I believe Paxil has saved many, many lives and has given comfort and normalcy to many more. Is it perfect? Of course not! Has it harmed some people? Probably. But I cannot offer you a magic pill to cure whatever ails you. We are far to ignorant for such fantasy. But there are many times when I believe that that is what my patients expect of me.

We live in a culture where the expectations of the medical profession are, I fear, grossly unrealistic. We in medicine operate in a field that is remarkable more for the profundity of its ignorance than for the depth of its understanding. You spend a third of your life sleeping, yet we have no idea what function sleep serves, or why you dream. We don't understand why a woman can harbor a baby within her uterus for nine months time and again without rejecting the fetus, but if we tried to transplant a kidney into the same women, she would reject it as foreign tissue. We don't understand why diabetes and depression are so common, as both are clearly evolutionary impossibilities. We have much to learn.

But ignorance is relative to the times in which we live. There are today, in fact, very few diseases in which nothing whatsoever can be done to alleviate the course or the symptoms. But almost never can I offer you a simple resolution to your complaints. Life just isn't that simple.

Those of you who are dissatisfied with therapies you have been rendered so far need to appreciate that your relationship with your physician is a dynamic one. Communication in both directions is important. Yes, I know, we never have enough time with you. That is another regrettable aspect of modern healthcare. But try to make your doctor understand whatever concerns you may have, and try to get him to explain why he feels the way he does about your treatment. There is a lot more going on there than you may appreciate.

But don't stop your Paxil, or necessarily avoid taking it or any other drug for fear of some media report.
 
I have always come down firmly on the If You Need Help Get It side of the equation... and if that help means pills, then pills are what you should take. But pills aren't all of the answer, they have to be taken in conjunction with ongoing therapy and medical attention, as well as personal and family attention. Those teens who committed suicide on Paxil might very easily have just been given the Paxil and ignored by their parents and doctors... "here, take these and leave me alone."

I resisted going the medical route for my depression until it advanced into type-2 bipolar disorder, by which time I would gladly have given up both nuts and my right foot to stop feeling as horrible as I was feeling. All I got for side-effect from my Prozac was some extra fat and a bit of gas; I just started taking Depakote as well, I'm waiting to see what that does to me. Whatever it is, I bet it's better than how I felt before.

And looking above, I see that a lot of people have had bad experiences with antidepressants; and I think there are a lot of doctors out there who have become just a bit jaded and don't pay sufficient attention to their patients' needs. And yeah, a lot of these antidepressants will do a number on your body. When my friend went off the Paxil he'd been taking for four years, he broke out in liver spots! A twenty-five year old kid walking around with great brown splotches all over him. Of course, he went cold-turkey against his doctor's advice because he wanted to just get it out of his system; he was tired of feeling flat and asexual.

However, there is just as much fault with the patients. One of the things I learned in my bipolar group therapy is that many bipolar people don't even think they're bipolar because they enjoy being manic... the extra energy, the extra sex-drive, the extra creativity. So they treat their bipolar disorder as if it were straight depression. And since they're not sharing all of their symptoms with their doctors, the doctors don't know any better. When my friend went off his Paxil, he didn't stop his bimonthly therapy sessions, he checked in with his doctor frequently during the withdrawal period, and he took decisive action towards maintaining his mental equilibrium and physical health during the process.

There's also this perception on the part of both physicians and patients that being depressive or anxious or bipolar isn't really that big of a deal. We learn to cope with various of our symptoms, and those symptoms become part of our personalities. And so when we're sitting down with the doctor going over our symptoms, we will frequently gloss over various symptoms or ignore them altogether. And so the doctor only gets partial information, and he or she prescribes on that partial information.

When I decided to go the medical route, I did a lot of research, I went to classes, I went to group, and I talked to my psychiatrist every three weeks to see how I was doing on my medication, had any side-effects surfaced, had any ill-effects taken place. I only get three refills on any of my meds, so I have to meet with the shrink face-to-face to discuss my treatment at least twice a year. My HMO does that sort of thing to make sure we make the most of our time with the doctors (prevention is way more cost-effective than reparation), but the attention to detail is something that anyone can bring to the party.

If I had gotten a doctor that just gave me a pill and sent me on my way, I would have changed doctors. And I would have kept changing doctors as long as it took until I found one who was interested in working with me, interested in discussing various treatments with me. I was lucky, the psychiatrist I drew out of the hat was the right one (when we started discussing medications, she gave me a sheet of twelve different treatment options to discuss with her and choose for myself), but there are twenty or so other shrinks I could have gone to if that one didn't work out... and that was just in my HMO, I could just as easily have gone out of my HMO if it was important (and I think my mental health is important).

The research is really important. When I was telling my father about why I'd started limiting myself to three cups of coffee a day, he wondered why he had never heard about caffeine and refined sugar and chemical sweeteners being cited as contributors to disorders like bipolar and depression... he's been under treatment for bipolar disorder for more than ten years, but this was news to him! Yet when I looked up the websites suggested by my therapy group leader, that was one of the first things I learned!

Daddy didn't know about it because he'd never asked. And he still drinks three or four Diet Pepsis every day even knowing that, because he doesn't really care enough about his mental health to make sacrifices in his comforts and addictions to help himself.

It's incredibly important for the patient to take an active part in his or her therapy, not just taking the doctor's word for anything, not just taking your friends' word for it, not just making it up as you go along. The information is all out there, you just have to dig it up; the help is out there, you just have to ask for it.
 
The National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE), in their latest guidelines, strongly suggest that all patients put on anti-depressants for depression or social anxiety, receive cognitive behavioural therapy from a clinical psychologist too.

Quite how they will acheive this ambitious aim with the current cutbacks in mental health resources by Comrade Hewitt is beyond me!
 
ds_writr said:
To me, its a bit like any other illness. A doctor may put some guy on insulin but a good one finds the causal root of his diabetes.

Even if you do manage to find the cause of someone's diabetes, it would be a purely academic exercise as it wouldn't alter the management of it.

In that nature, it is different to depression and other mental problems.
 
I think putting you on something that you hate is bad enough... I was on depacot (sp) and I felt like a patient in my own house...

I had friends who were on that, I am sure they as like you hate the side-effects, no one would like to have side-effectf or a medication...

I think it is very much so bullshit
 
I understnad the need to be on paxil and everything. Because depression can get really bad, really quick, and me my parents and my doctor all agreed that I should be on it.

But I also think that now that I've been on it for 2 years, I should try ti see if I can make it without the meds, because I feel like I've hit a dead end. I want to move forward, but the paxil just makes me feel weird. I've been feeling like a different person ever since I've been on it.

(I apologize for the totally self-importance post, lol)
 
TechPepsi said:
I think putting you on something that you hate is bad enough... I was on depacot (sp) and I felt like a patient in my own house...


Ben....If you're out there, could you give us a brief rundown on
Depacote ?

My shrink wanted to put me on them years ago, but it just seemed
like the wrong thing to do, to me.

It seemed like too much of a 'big time' drug to take, if that makes
any sense.

Josh
 
Babies and bathwater, will they never be properly separated?

I know in my own case that ongoing psychological therapy was not what I needed; what I needed was education, lifestyle changes, and chemical balancing. My brain has been steadily decreasing its production of seratonin over the years, which is a congenital defect that absolutely everybody in my family has. In my case, the symptoms were slower to surface because I didn't put nearly as many foreign chemicals into my body as my parents and sister had.

The symptoms got worse with every passing year, despite the fact that my reasons for being depressed or manic were getting better. I really enjoyed my life, when I was riding the middle line and could see clearly. I had everything I needed and most of the things I wanted. Nevertheless, I had to make certain changes to that life in order to take care of myself.

Too many people I know will start taking antidepressants and then not change anything else about their lives. They keep on overtaxing themselves and not sleeping enough and drinking too much soda and wallowing around in their problems. And what is the result? You have all the side-effects and your life is still this shithole existence that you can't bear. No amount of Paxil or Prozac or Effexor can fix your fucked-up psyche or your fucked-up lifestyle, all they can do is help your brain produce the chemicals it needs to function properly.

There are also a lot of people who go straight to the drugs when there are a lot smaller simpler things they can do instead. I did a lot of those long before I decided to go the medical route. Vitamins, meditation, multispectrum lights, I tried all sorts of things. They helped a lot, too... they weren't enough for me, but they're often enough for others. Treating causal or coincidental depression with drugs is a lot like treating a migraine with a frontal lobotomy... just a little too much medicine.

I think the key thing is to take responsibility for it and devote one's energies to wellness. Even if you get the right drug and the right doctor, if you're not taking steps to insure the improvement of your health and well-being, then you might as well just stay as you were. It's cheaper.
 
Robert~Marlénè said:
Babies and bathwater, will they never be properly separated?



:lol:


I realize that this is a very serious thread...But, come on guys...
THAT was funny !

Josh
 
I really don't get why so many people gripe about the pharmaceutical industry.

Everybody wants cures to diseases and conditions, yet everybody bemoans any side effects medications carry.

If you don't want the medication, fine. Don't take it. None of it comes without risks and you're just going to have to accept that. Any of you who said that package warning labels are just so that the pharmaceutical companies can cover their asses are absolutely correct. Why shouldn't they want to cover their asses and wouldn't you do the same?

If you want to dismantle the pharmaceutical industry, more power to you; you'll be slamming the final nail in the coffin which contains what is left of the once-powerful American economy.
 
LoL, Suicide is a Listed Side Effect on almost all of the Anti-depressents, and it's especially prevalient in the youth brackett (ie. Teenagers), but Suicidal Feelings are generally correlated to DEPRESSION and other mood disorders... Suicide as a side effect is more like a risk of the medication not working well enough, but it's listed as a possible side effect because of the political/lawyer climate of The United States (ie, the McDonald's Hot Coffee Law Suit).
 
On another note: why are there so many bullshit diseases? I'm sorry. Severely impoverished people around the world don't get depression and anxiety disorders; they call it life.
 
Technically, there are actual chemical imbalances in some people, and sometimes it is because of a Physical Problem (ie, and under-productive gland), but that's why there is a difference between a disease state and an illness/infection
 
T-Zero said:
That's quite possibly among some of the most irresponsible things ever said in this forum.
Somebody didn't get the sarcasm... but I'm really not much of a humanitarian. If people are stupid enough to not take medications that could potentially save their life, more power to them. *shrug*
 
T-Zero said:
No. It's called living with an illness and not having access to treatment. ](*,)
OR we just have "diseases" in the West caused by our decadence that most places have never experienced. Take, for example, rates of asthma which are exploding in the West but are almost unheard of in the rest of the world.
 
epicAdam said:
On another note: why are there so many bullshit diseases? I'm sorry. Severely impoverished people around the world don't get depression and anxiety disorders; they call it life.

Let's not blur the lines of chemical and situational depression though.
 
I find it astounding the views some people have outside of the Medical Professions, but I also find it disconcerting how quickly a Medical Professional reverts to a child like state and most of their statements after being challenged could easily be followed by a :p
 
^ I understand. And I agree that medications should be monitored more accurately... nobody should be able to abuse their medications, or not take them, or have one doctor not know what your other doctor is doing.

I mean, I always wondered why you can't get antibiotics over the counter. I asked a friend in the healthcare field that question, and she told me that it's because people tend to overmedicate, and if everyone was allowed to take antibiotics whenever they felt like it, the organisms they're meant to fight would get stronger. We'd be under siege from superstrains of every known disease.

In my HMO (I belong to Kaiser Permanente, if that means anything to you), all of the doctors to whom I have access use the same computer system. When my psychiatrist prescribes me a pill, it goes into my medical records where my GP can see it; if my GP prescribes me something, my psychiatrist knows. If there's a possible interaction, the pharmacy will pick it up and flag my record so that the psychiatrist and the GP will meet to discuss my case with me.

Furthermore, my GP will outsource me to a specialist if I give him even a moment's pause in my questioning. I have allergies, so he sends me to an allergist rather than try to keep himself abreast of the newest thing in allergy medications. When I told him about my depression, he got the ball rolling with the psych department. A big organized place like that is, for lazy scatterbrained me, the best thing I could hope for. But anyone can keep his or her GP apprised of everything the specialists tell him or her, and a good GP should have a roster of specialists he can consult in his Rolodex.

Medical science is now so freaking complicated that your GP can barely keep up. That's why specializing is so popular, because you can really concentrate on one part of the body or one kind of condition, and get really good at it. And so, seeing a specialist for any one part of your body that's going whacko is highly recommended. I think the GP, nowadays, should fill a role of coordinating your health-care rather than being the only medical person you see.

I would like Centurion's perspective on this, I hope he comes back to this thread!
 
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