Being gay and raised Christian sucks.

[Kulindahr]

Hear, hear, Diver Dude! As a fellow Catholic I couldn't have said it better myself.

I have only recently (over the past year or so) begun accepting my homosexuality as God-given (and even a gift, though one which comes with great hardship) rather than seeing it as some psychological, moral or spiritual defect, which is precisely what the Catholic Church's hierarchy, and many other conservative Christian leaders, want gay people to think about themselves.

Don't let them get away with it. Don't let anyone, whether in the Church or outside the Church (even other gay people who hate Christianity!), convince you that you can't live a fully Christian life and flourish sexually at the same time.

Knew you'd weigh in, the moment I saw this thread.

JarodA, as Longinus could tell you, the view of the Church universal hasn't always been this condemnatory. Early in Christian history, all sorts of unions between people were blessed, not just heterosexual monogamy. There's no need to reject the church or Christianity because of the attitudes of the ignorant.

One way to accept the bible is to admit that most of it isn't true and shouldn't be interpreted literally - the difficulty of this is that you will start to doubt if any of it is true - then you might wonder if you are really immortal and will actually live on forever after you die

You're correct about literal interpretation, though not about the first part -- it's only when literalism is forced on a text that is alien to such a concept that you get things that are untrue. Large portions of the Bible are in literary types utterly strange to us modern types -- Genesis 1 & 2 are excellent examples of that.

To JarodA: when you encounter people who take every word literally, be suspicious at that point of anything they say. In fact, there's actually a very good test for their consistency: Jesus literally says "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood", at the Last Supper. Any 'literalist' Christian who rejects that -- and most of them do -- is showing that what he's doing isn't interpreting the Bible literally, but interpreting it simple-mindedly, i.e. in a fashion that doesn't require him to think much. At that point, he's been shown to be not very reliable.

I suspect that test would flunk the two fathers mentioned by thread participants as pastors.

 

[Kulindahr]

The more I read the posts on this subject the more I am convinced that what is needed is for those who encounter Christians who make them feel rejected is for them to cast their net much wider. There are millions of Christians who know better than to judge you on the basis of your sexual orientation. There are also millions of Christians who are ready to help you to appreciate that the gospel is good news for you wherever you may be on your life journey.

Most excellently said!

On that level, here's a fair test: if a Christian who learns your gay responds first with a hug and a sharing of compassion for the way you get treated, you're likely to be in good company; it the first response is, "OMG that's a sin!", follow the advice Jesus gave to the disciples concerning places that wouldn't listen to them -- wipe even the dust of that encounter from your feet, and get out of there!

There are of course those who read their Bible in a nitpicking sort of way--they seem to delight in finding something in that great book which excludes some from enjoying fellowship, forgetting that the dominant message of Christianity is that Christ has done away with that which separates us from one another and from our God. Even in the earliest Christian preaching, and certainly in the teachings of Jesus there is a heavy emphasis on the importance of the forgiveness of sin since we all fall short of the commandment to love God with heart, soul, and mind, and none of us have good records with regard to our duty to love others as we love ourselves. (I can, and I'm very sure that others can think of sins which are more harmful to more people than the sin which comes into being by reason of the misuse of our God-given sexuality) The Good News is that no one is outside God's mercy. You are welcome just as you are and anyone who tells you otherwise is perverting the intentions of God as we Christians have come to understand them through the teachings of Jesus Christ.

"Nitpicking" -- you're more polite than I would be!

Christians often fall neatly into two categories, when they encounter people engaged in what they see as horrible sin:

1. Come on in!
2. Get the fuck outa here!

Jesus said "Come to Me, all..."
Anyone who is on the "GTFOH" trip doesn't know who Jesus is in the first place; they're afraid sin might stick to them and make them dirty. That ended when the whole "unclean" business ended, which it did because Jesus is greater than sin... so if they're sweating over how evil you are, and how horrid your sin is, or whatever, they just plain don't know Jesus.
The vilest people in public opinion in Jesus' day were the tax collectors and prostitutes. Today, they're gays and "sex offenders", who are often lumped together. Back then, Jesus joined the tax collectors and prostitutes at dinner, and welcomed them with embraces -- and He does the same thing today with our time's pariahs.
So if you're not getting met with dinner invitations and hugs, it isn't Jesus you're encountering.

Most Christians that I know do not suggest that everything in the Bible is to be taken as the very Word of God. When the Bible is read in my church the reader always prefaces the reading with: "Listen for the Word of God in...." and there are large portions of the Bible which are never read for the simple reason that no one today seriously suggests that there is even a hint of a message from our Creator in many parts of the Bible. We take the Bible seriously, but never literally.

If "being gay and raised Christian sucks" for you, I would suggest that you find some person who was raised Christian and is gay and is happy being both gay and Christian.

If they really believe what you say, I worry for them. The entire Bible is to be taken as the very word of God; the question is how it is to be understood. Obviously, taking something like the statement "There is no God!" out of context leads you to a wrong place; so also does taking things like not eating shellfish -- because in context, all the commands about the details of everyday life that were given to the ancient Hebrews no longer apply -- period.
But they're right to not take great portions of it literally, because they weren't written to be taken that way -- indeed, if you could successfully communicate the concept to an ancient Hebrew, you'd probably get a blank look when you managed to ask what parts of the Bible that pertains to, because it's an alien way of thought to the culture the Bible rose through. There are parts we can get away with taking literally, but only because what they are is close enough to that, that to do so is safe.
And even what was to be taken "literally" back then may not be so now, as illustrated with the item of ancient commands -- which weren't "commands" in the sense we understand them, in the first place: back in their day, the instruction to not mix meat and dairy in food was to be taken literally, because it did in fact mean that they weren't to do that, but today it is to be taken as an example of a way on which God instructs His people, not as an instruction for us to follow as it stands. It's a measure of the ignorance of people like the Phelps clan that they can picket against gays, but not warn America that it is aimed at destruction because of the abomination of a Big Mac, or picket clothing stores because of the abomination of mixing two types of fiber in a garment, or picket grocery stores because of the abomination of having shellfish as food.

"Love one another, as I have loved you", was the one truly new thing Jesus taught; all the rest comes from the Old Testament. When you meet a Christian who is ready to die for you, as you are, without demanding you change first, then you've met someone to listen to.

 

[buddy1970]

One way to accept the bible is to admit that most of it isn't true and shouldn't be interpreted literally - the difficulty of this is that you will start to doubt if any of it is true - then you might wonder if you are really immortal and will actually live on forever after you die

Historical events in The Bible are archeologically proven, that Jews lived in the regions at the times when The Bible says they did, that Kings David and Solomon lived, etc. What's not proven, and can never be proven, is that any of the miracles and/or revelations ever happened.

I find the words of Jesus very comforting and mostly true (do unto others, love your neighbor, return hate with love, etc.), but much of the rest of it holds little interest for me other than as a historical footnote.

To understand and appreciate Western Culture, however, requires at least a fundamental understanding of The Bible, so I would encourage other agnostics and atheists to at least be familiar with it.

 

[seven_sins]

I was raised in a small town and was an active youth member of the Methodist church. I never remember hearing the word "homosexual" in our church. The biggest controversy I remember was the Sunday our minister used the word "simultaneously" in a sermon. It created a lot of gossip because no one in the congregation knew what it meant. When I went off to college, I left church behind. I enjoyed the social interactions I had in church and the friends I made, but I never really believed what I was taught.

 

[954dude]

I'd love the day that homosexuality becomes more accepting in all religions.

When your place of worship teaches and preaches individuality, loving yourself, being yourself, and having nothing to be ashamed of, I'll feel proud to be part of humanity. No real religion should teach discrimination or hatred.

 

[Jonnism]

I think that Christianity is a beautiful concept, one of peace and love in its truest form, and when practiced as intended it is at it's core a divine establishment of love for one another. In saying that, the Bible is something that was meant to (and should be) translated according to the individual reading the book. It is sad to say that most Christians have never read the bible, or even a majority of it. I am an athiest, was raised athiest, and have never been compelled toward faith, but I can see the true beauty in having a feeling and draw to spirituality. If it makes a person an complete human being full of love and committment to his fellow man, than I strongly encourage it.

However, when one is excluded from a church due to his sexuality, it is acting in opposition to Christianity and Jesus' principal teachings of love, acceptance and charity. A true Christian will take no notice of homosexuality as a sin any differant than sins he or she has committed. Eating shell-fish, wearing two garments of clothing made with different thread, etc.. As the Bible says, all sins are equal in God's eyes, and to be excluded because of your particular "sin" is to go against the ten commandments, the spiritual constitution of God. Who is committing a greater sin? Those who condemn an entire section of society in the name of God, and then drop bombs upon women and children in impoverished nations are the true sinners and committers of atrocities and crimes against humanity. To use the name of God for such things is, in my opinion, a greater sin than any. The hypocricy is overwhelming and outstanding, and I think that as we enter into the future we will see the archaic ignorance of people two thousand years ago as obsolete. Even the Catholic church is admitting to science these days, and has an entire department dedicated to scientific research.

If you have faith, and feel the presence of your savior within you, be all means embrace it. But never feel ashamed about who you are on the inside, especially if you are a truly good, compassionate and charitable human being. Everybody deserves respect and dignity, and if you're surrounded by people or institutions that push you into dark spaces, mentally or emotionally, you need to leave and search. :]

 

[jdoe4822]

I was saved at 14 and spent the 8-9 years on an evangelical mission (note I'm 25 years so do the math and yeah something changed a few years ago). To immediately address what you say, yes it does suck. Big time. Other Christians definitely make it worse. 2 years later you can still read where I carved "Faggot" in my arm with a razor blade.

(note: if anyone wants specific quotes and verse citations here, let me know...but its 1:10 in the morning and I don't feel like searching through Biblegateway if I don't have to) I believed (and continue to believe) that the Bible (and Christ specifically) said that sex outside a heterosexual marriage is a sin. I also believed, though, in a God who said "if you confess with your mouth and believe with your heart that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved" and that "nothing...can seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus." Christ taught that "if you love me, you will obey my commands", meaning love Christ comes first. A desire to obey will develop on its own if you first have love for him, but it is not what is important to begin with.

Hope this helps.

For me, living as a Christian got to the point that I literally preferred being cut up by a razor blade than feel the pain I was in. While I do have plenty of good memories from my Christian life, ultimately my final one is me standing bloody in my bathroom begging God to kill me. Because of the above behavior (and some accompanying suicidal plans) I spent 3 days hopsitalized and despite my fervent prayers, God never once showed up.

Since then, I've lived my life as a complete atheist. Not a day goes by that I don't wrestle through all this in my mind. Compared to the above, I find life better and more enjoyable all around this way, even in ways not directly related to religion or homosexuality (even basic stuff like job quality, healthy eating habits, excercising etc). People who haven't seen me years, even if they didn't know about any of this, say I look better and happier than they've ever seen me before. Kinda hard to argue with that. Besides, by now my objections to Christianity go beyond just homosexuality and extend to other parts of its message.

 

[bearbacked]

I was raised catholic, but preferred to choose my sexuality over my religion (not my spirituality).

And yet, I still get down on my knees a lot.

 

[conrad]

Why do some continue to suffer alone when there are those who have faced the same questions and somehow come through them to the point where they live their lives comfortable with their sexuality and in their Christian faith also?

As one who has been there it helps to know that some folks who read their Bibles and are serious about their lives as Christians have discovered that many of the roadblocks are man-made. It does not take a degree in theology or biblical studies to grasp that their is not just one lifestyle, sexually speaking, that is permitted to Christians. We are called to serve God in whatever situation we find ourselves.

The governing guidance is good for all: To love God and to love one's neighbor as one loves oneself. The "straight" follows one path while the gay man follows another. But, in those differing relationships the need for love (genuine concern for the other) can be applied.

Let it be said that we all fall far short of the ideal; but, if we are Christians we know that the grace of God as we know it in Jesus Christ is sufficient to our needs.

 

[cubbiechaser]

Yea I gave up on most mainstream religions awhile ago, if I had to identify my spirituality with anything it'd be close to Unitarian Universalism. I just never saw the point in having some outdated text tell you what you have to be, what your morality has to be, and how you have to live; especially when none of it can be proven.

 

[jdoe4822]

And you realize it's all bullshit.

Funny how that works eh? Praying with all your might that "God" kill you or fix you, and yet..... he's nowhere to be found.
QUOTE]

yeah after you spend enough time yelling at the walls, asking to set things "straight", you realize they don't hear or talk back, nor does anyone else beyond those walls. Funny how I find that thought comforting now.

 

[eddielee]

I've been a Christian for 38 years and gay for just as many years. There are some things you have to work out. I agree with 1big14me. You have to get alone with the Bible, meditate on the words, and talk to God.

 

[hotatlboi]

I believe that telling someone that their sins can not be forgiving is a major slap in the face to God and Christ. I know that I would not want to be the person that stands before Almighty God and Jesus on the day of judgment and tell them that Jesus's sacrifice just wasn't good enough or strong enough to cover ALL of mankind's sins.

And I believe telling a gay person that their sexuality is a "sin" is a huge slap in the face to them (and all gay people).

 

[EwanSF]

Here here...

 

[AsianDream]

Yet there are many Christian Churches that are not anti-gay - so there is no inherent contradiction between being Gay and being Christian.

There are sadly some versions of the Christian religion that have departed from the central message of Love and tolerance - should you really feel guilty if you have the misfortune to have been raised as a child in one of these versions of Christianity that have corrupted and perverted the central message of the religion?

Personally I think there is no truth in any religion - but I am interested enough in the idea of religion to appreciate the true message of Christianity - and no part of this real message should make you feel guilty -

So being Being gay and Christian doesn't suck - but some clearly wrong and distorted interpretations of this faith might make it seem that way

Enough said. All it does is fill you with guilt. Sorry, I've just been struggling with this.

 

[conrad]

It all depends upon which voices you listen to: there are those who see only the dark side of the history of the Christian faith. There have been those, however, who have provided the needed caution. Not all who claim to speak in the name of Christ are being true to the spirit of Christ. Do recall that Jesus himself associated with what we might call the "sex workers" (prostitutes) and never, for one moment, indicated that they had no part in the Kingdom of God which was the burden of his teachings. Love, in Jesus' way of stating it has no boundaries; love reaches out to embrace the other.

If you find the religious climate in which you have grown up is too confining, by all means seek out those who are in your situation who still maintain their healthy association with the Christian faith. They are more numerous than you might think. YOU HAVE A MIND AND YOU OUGHT TO USE IT TO TEST THESE NEGATIVE VOICES TO DO YOUR OWN MEASURING OF WHETHER THEY ARE IN HARMONY WITH THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL OF GOD IN CHRIST. It makes good sense to associate yourself with those who take their faith into their dealings with all other person, those whose faith gives them the comfort and strength to live as whole persons. Christianity at its best is a faith and life which embraces others where they are in their journey of life; it can make life richer amidst the difficulties presented by those who would exclude rather than include.

Cultivate the attitude which rejoices in those things which Christians have done and still do that is worthy. Remember that no life is without sin (that which tends toward separation). We all need the grace of forgiveness whatever our sexual orientation. Christians who also happen to be gay, or bi, or straight are all under obligation to love God with heart, soul, and mind and to love their neighbors as they love themselves.

It is a tremendously helpful step when all Christians learn to see themselves as beloved of God and therefore persons of great value. If we love ourselves we will be better equipped to love all others whether they be sexually oriented as we are or otherwise.

Those who claim the name of Christian often present themselves as enemies to persons who happen to be gay. Christians who happen also to be gay can show them the better way. We are called to love all persons, even those who present themselves as enemies to us. You may be surprised by the results.

 

[Kulindahr]

YOU HAVE A MIND AND YOU OUGHT TO USE IT TO TEST THESE NEGATIVE VOICES TO DO YOUR OWN MEASURING OF WHETHER THEY ARE IN HARMONY WITH THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL OF GOD IN CHRIST.

Cultivate the attitude which rejoices in those things which Christians have done and still do that is worthy. Remember that no life is without sin (that which tends toward separation). We all need the grace of forgiveness whatever our sexual orientation. Christians who also happen to be gay, or bi, or straight are all under obligation to love God with heart, soul, and mind and to love their neighbors as they love themselves.

Those who claim the name of Christian often present themselves as enemies to persons who happen to be gay. Christians who happen also to be gay can show them the better way. We are called to love all persons, even those who present themselves as enemies to us. You may be surprised by the results.

"Test all things", St. Paul wrote, "and hold fast to those which are good."

Many Christians would claim to abide by that, but they're not testing by a Christian standard: they're testing by a legalistic, Old Testament standard, as though Jesus never came. "What is good" is not measured by the Law found in Deuteronomy or Leviticus, but by the two commandments which both encapsulate and rise above the Law: love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

When Christians step out and dabble in changing laws to enforce extrenal 'righteousness' on others, it's not love in any sense, because love grasps this: that Christ set us free, to be free, and not only aren't we to submit to any yoke of bondage again, we're not to impose one on anyone else, either.

 

[degrandm]

So have I.

I finally realized that God made me gay; it wasn't my personal choice. I really hated myself for a long time because I was different, but convinced myself that it was a challenge that I had to rise to accept. I now take church not at face value, but for positive guidance in my life. I accept others and realize that we are all people that need help and support from one another. Never judge - it's not our job. Never look on a person's sins, but instead on their character.

I was raised Catholic and love the history and traditions of my church. Although I am an 'abomination' by the preachings of my spiritual leaders, I have to remind myself that it's humans that decide so much in my theology and not God Himself.

I know we all take different viewpoints on religious matters, but this is the best that I can offer and hope that you do well in your struggles with this aspect of your life.

i to was raised Catholic and i cooed not have sed it better my self

 

[sportgaming]

I am a lifelong christian ( Anglican - Church of England to be precise) and my husband is a Catholic.

Despite the traditonal backgrounds we both come from, we have had nopthing but support from both of our families - to me this is being Christian should really mean.

The bible sets the guidelines by which we should run our life- as has been said previously in this thread, very little of the bible is actually god's words, they are merely what god has influenced the people of the time to write. - Meaning that the words themself are open to human error

it is the message of peace and love that are there plainly for all to see, and that goes across all sexual boundaries.

 

[Julian89]

Good thing that I am no longer a hardcore "Christian." I just consider my indoctrination as a thing of the past and move on. To each on their own. I have a life to fulfill with.