On Topic Discussion Being Out and Proud offers little in return

[MoufOfKhaos]

Maybe they're the only ones who feel on firm enough footing to answer you direct. Lord knows if a gay friend on FB talked about "how gay is", I'd feel more sturdy answering than my straight friends would.

Lex

It's more like we've heard it before from him, and even when changing tactics(ie - asking him a direct question, rather than stating that it's the same story every day with him), he still reacted as he did with the opening post... accusing a race or a people of being against him without bothering to read into why it's not about his race - it's about his attitude towards everyone.

I can say I tried, and now I can freely move on.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

koff a word lifestyle a big doodoo cause ans so on ans stuff unless a great 1st world folkees free a play nobheads wile rome burn

anyway

thankyou

 

[MorrisseyX]

For most of my adult life, I've lived as an "Ambiguous gay male".
If you are a heterosexual, for you, the application of that term should be as follows:

"If you don't ask, I won't tell. Nor will I attempt to confirm
the obvious as it exists through your plain of view."

And while I am far from a self loathing closeted gay man, I'm not necessarily out and proud neither. And why should I be? What does the "gay community have to offer a young man of color anyway?" From where I sit, the "gay community" doesn't look all that appealing. Especially if you're a Black American. Even among gay Blacks in America, there is a psychological dysfunction that exist. So how can one find refuge in a broken community? Friendships among gays are forged through the "gay handshake" which means "sex first and we'll take it from there." How is that healthy? Racism is practiced among gay whites as freely as it is among their heterosexual counterparts. And dating and relationships exist only if you believe in unicorns. I'm aware that I may seem bitter and perhaps jaded. But who among you can argue against what has been said? Yes, the holidays are upon us and maybe I'm sick of hearing about how my coworkers will be spending their very HETEROSEXUAL holidays with family and friends. But regardless of my rationale, the gay lifestyle still offers very little in terms of feeling good about yourself, and (ironically) feeling proud of anything "gay".

Being gay and black is not easy so Kane I definitely have sympathy for your situation. May I suggest Kane a book by a black American gay writer his name is Dwight McBride he wrote a book in 2005 "Why I Hate Ambercrombie and Fitch" I think you can get the book from the library. Anyway, in the book McBride talks A LOT about the issues we as gay black men go through and how we negotiate the gay world and the black community. Another book I think you might want to read is be another black American writer Essex Hemphill he wrote this GREAT BOOK the name of the book is "ceremonies". Again you can get ceremonies from the library Kane. I SERIOUSLY recommend you READ THESE BOOKS! I think it will help you to see you are not alone. I also think you might want to read some stuff by James Earl Hardy perhaps? But those two books by Hemphill and McBride I hope you consider reading them?
I remember the 1991 film Paris Is Burning one guy said I am paraphrasing if you are " black and gay you are going to have to be stronger or something.." Well, anyway it definitely is not easy that is for sure. I am nor an American but I thought it would easier to be gay there? Up here in canada there is no gay black community due to the fact many men are not out. I thought in the USA they had gay black communities in places like LA, NY, Philadelphia, Atlanta? There are gay people who are just as bigoted as straight people. I think it is all trial and error. I had friendships with gay men throughout my youth BUT sadly it didn't work out. Sometimes I wonder is it due to life? Did we just grow apart? In the past few years I have been alone I do not hang out with other gay men. I did join a gay male group a few years ago BUT I did meet one guy he thought I was into him BUT I wasn't. And then that friendship just burnt out.

 

[IceColdLover]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism? Instead of finding kinship or offering support, they attacked and mocked! One of many examples of my growing discontent with the gay lifestyle.

In the same boat as you, in some ways. It seems like there are gays that are deemed "not good enough" to exist with the whole gay circle and are mocked relentlessly by the self-righteous, more privileged ones than being comforted and given sound advice on how to live in our own skin. That's what the world has come to, sadly, and I don't see the world lasting much longer at that rate. Keep your head up, there are gay men of every color that would be happy to have you as a friend or boyfriend/husband.

 

[eastofeden]

The gay "community" begins and ends with YOU...what do YOU bring to the table as an individual? Do you ask for something from others you aren't willing to give yourself?

My advice ...BE THE CHANGE you want to see in other people

Thinking like a victim will never get anyone very far...and 86 the self pity..it will destroy you...or anyone....

 

[MorrisseyX]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism? Instead of finding kinship or offering support, they attacked and mocked! One of many examples of my growing discontent with the gay lifestyle.

Kane some of us black gays we do understand where you are coming from. I hope you saw my post about Dwight McBride book "Why I Hate Abercrombie and Fitch"and also Essex Hemphill book "ceremonies"! Both books are amazing and you can get them at a local library or a gay bookstore. I STRONGLY recommend you check these books out Kane. Hemphill and McBride write about the duality of being black and a gay man. They also write about the struggle we experience how we see the world and how the world sees us.

 

[G-Lexington]

In the same boat as you, in some ways. It seems like there are gays that are deemed "not good enough" to exist with the whole gay circle and are mocked relentlessly by the self-righteous, more privileged ones than being comforted and given sound advice on how to live in our own skin.

say there was a person born into great wealth, who got the privileged education, and got set up in a multi-million dollar business of his own afterwards. if he overheard you talking about your own financial problems about not making ends meet, would you listen to his financial advice? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

Lex

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

Did anyone else notice it was the Black Gays of Jub who pounced on this thread with their cynicism?

Perhaps because it's us who have dealt with so much hate from our straight Black peers, so when we see one of our own internalize that homophobia and join the collective anti-gay sentiment we've fought against, it really hurts,

That being said, I see a number of Blacks here (myself included) that haven't attacked you at all.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

say there was a person born into great wealth, who got the privileged education, and got set up in a multi-million dollar business of his own afterwards. if he overheard you talking about your own financial problems about not making ends meet, would you listen to his financial advice? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.

Lex

If he were smarter than I I'd do well to accept his free advice.

 

[G-Lexington]

If he were smarter than I I'd do well to accept his free advice.

Sure, if the guy's regular job is doing financial planning for lower-income folk, you'd be wise to listen. But if it's not?

I'm smarter than my friend Dave. I think everybody would say that's true, including Dave. But that doesn't mean you should listen to me instead of Dave when it comes to how to fix your car. Why? Because Dave's a mechanic. Cars and trucks are something he knows backwards and forwards.

Lex

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

here ma change
*ooh skip skip skip*

tittars

thankyou

 

[-Kane-]

In the same boat as you, in some ways. It seems like there are gays that are deemed "not good enough" to exist with the whole gay circle and are mocked relentlessly by the self-righteous, more privileged ones than being comforted and given sound advice on how to live in our own skin. That's what the world has come to, sadly, and I don't see the world lasting much longer at that rate. Keep your head up, there are gay men of every color that would be happy to have you as a friend or boyfriend/husband.

Thank you. Your semtiments are much appreciated.

Kane some of us black gays we do understand where you are coming from. I hope you saw my post about Dwight McBride book "Why I Hate Abercrombie and Fitch"and also Essex Hemphill book "ceremonies"! Both books are amazing and you can get them at a local library or a gay bookstore. I STRONGLY recommend you check these books out Kane. Hemphill and McBride write about the duality of being black and a gay man. They also write about the struggle we experience how we see the world and how the world sees us.

MorrisseyX, thank you so very much for the reading suggestions. Lately I've been subconsciously searching for something that will give me a sense of belonging and meaning. Among my own Black community all I find is self hate and empty vessels. Across the pond in the white gay community, the story doesn't get any better. There is sexual objectification, racism and white privilege that shall not be ignored at their insistence. Thanks again for your offerings.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

Morrissey, I also want to thank you for that book suggestion. Ordered my copy yesterday. To say that the book sounds like it's up my alley would be a serious understatement.

 

[nyctopgam]

I've learned recently on here that some gay men confuse misogyny with the fact that some men can't love a woman sexually or emotionally and express such.
Anyway, back to topic, -Kane- I understand where you're coming from.

Agreed, some gay men may be like that. My take on misogyny is that it exists among gay men because we are men. Cultural conditioning is a powerful thing. The same goes with race, which makes me more sympathetic with where the OP is coming from. Too easy to be smug and have an I'm all right Jack attitude.

As middle class white gays become more mainstream with all the benefits of being middle class and white that straight white people have always enjoyed, it's not surprising that they become more and more invested in the status quo and adopt the lifestyles and social signatures that accompany it.

So we still see the gay black man's alienation that the OP feels. We were closer once, when we were all outlaws together.

 

[bankside]

As middle class white gays become more mainstream with all the benefits of being middle class and white that straight white people have always enjoyed, it's not surprising that they become more and more invested in the status quo and adopt the lifestyles and social signatures that accompany it.

...this implies that women will have become more mainstream and more invested in the status quo since they got the right to vote. It implies that members of minority groups who are making advances will become more and more invested in the status quo.

Yaaaayyy we'll all have the same lifestyle!!!

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

^Not even close to what he's saying.

 

[bankside]

Oh I don't know about that but the logic is the same. Once people have even a shot at being mainstream and middle class, apparently we all go status quo.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

There is no "logic," just actual observations up by social history. You can't add it up and draw patterns as if it were a math problem. Comparing Minorities to Middle class white gays is a serious fail.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

There is no "logic," just actual observations up by social history. You can't add it up and draw patterns as if it were a math problem. Comparing Minorities to Middle class white gays is a serious fail.

wonda robots alls a shape like numbas wen human race gon fossil fuel

anyway

thankyou

 

[dereperez]

Being out and proud shouldn't be about what you expect from others. It is you feeling proud for yourself. Just as some people seem to always wear rose-tinted glasses, you seem to wear the shitty-tinted glasses quite often.