Berlin Opera Pulls a Production Over a Scene Involving Muhammad

[Andreus]

Muslims do not come together to do anything, and when all of us cry out at once it should make one pause and consider how that is posible...

its because we are horibly offended buy the exact same thing. peace will not be acheived by telling the other guys to just like it or tough luck. it will happen when people make sacrifices for each others cultures.

and no the west does not blow up planes, but it does blow up schools and weddings and hospitals in the name of self defence

look

I dont like the violence that the radicals use any more than I like the behaviors that they are responding to

the difference here is that people ask why muslims feel disempowered on a global scale and ask why there is so much rage against america... rage that has spread against america and england on a global scale

when they are told exactly why..... they argue the point. all the arguing in the world will not change the cultural offence and if peace is the real target, I would think that taking mohammeds head off a pole in a play would be a really small thing.

read the reports that have come out... the preemptive wars have done just as we all said they would do... make people angry and violent

americans say that the muslim way of an eye for an eye is wrong, ans they take vengeance on all of the mideast for the planes and trians blowing up, and someohow are quite suprised when people point out the double standard.

dead bodies dont ask how they got cold, and children grow up to hate the people that took the lives of their parents.

this planet is spinning out of controll and someone somewhere has to make the first gesture of understanding

why is this so hard to understand?

and once again, this is really poorly timed...

its like hanging a swastika over the star of david on the jewish new years, or peeing on the cross on easter sunday

ramadan is not the time for this folks

i am telling you why things are getting out of controll and i am giving you answers in real language. I am not justifying anything.

 

[Croynan]

deleted/error in posting/eM

 

[Croynan]

society is a collection of people, not an inanimate thing

it defines itself by the needs of the individuals considered colectively

if the producers were unwilling to spend money on a production that had no rellevance in terms of the history of the piece, then that is what makesw america happen.

when people dont want to spend money on the thing and the government doesnt either, then people can have as many ideas as they want...

just don't expect investors to pay for someone elses bad taste and culturally insensitive gestures in the name of free speech

we are discussing it

that is free speech

and that is more than enough

Just for clarification purposes, I do not see how America fits in to this paragraph and what is being said. It is a German Opera Co. that has made the decision and to my knowledge America is in no way involved with that issue and or the decision.

pax

eM.

 

[Andreus]

this is pointless and i must withdraw from the discussion, after this post. You know that i am saying that we have no organized religion or way of sharing edicts, and when we all find something offensive in unison, it means that there is an instinctive core issue at hand, and it is simply not going to change.

mohammeds head on a pole is one of those things, andif you really have to ask why, you are more interested in an arguement than an answer.

I am answering you, just not in the way you would prefer, Tzero

I promise you, these arguements you are making will not change anything

if you want real change then we will all have to find a way to be tollerant of each others cultures

I think that means that muslims have to accept a certain degree of disrespect as the culture of america seems to be based in disrespect at this time. Somehow freedom of speech has morphed into freedom to disrespect. that is hard for the eastern mind to understand. They will have to try to do that if peace is to be attained.

and in exchange for that understanding the west will have to learn to not put mohammeds head on a pole and expect it to not get a negative response.

Period

period

Ramadan is the month that we believe that Mohammed recieved the koran from the archangel Jibril on the golden tablets in Mecca. It is the time when we all stop and reread the entire text. we do not eat and we do not even drink water. we consider the text and our place in the world. We do not liek to be distracted by our meditations on the meaning of our faith by seeing the founder of our faith disrepsected in such a way.

that is just how it is

it isn't right and it isnt wrong

it just is the truth

if you are interested in a true peace... a peace that will be meaningfull, then you will have to accept that there are aspects of this that we will not even discuss with people outside the faith.

I am now quite sure that we can get no further here.

The american mind is unwilling to see Islam in any way but through their own moral filter. Thaat simply wont resolve these issues. this very arguement is playing out globally and it is getting no one no where at breakneck speed.

thanks for the consideration, judging by some of the responses I have goten in Pm and in comment, I know that there are many more that understand what i am saying than wish to argue the point.

for all of you I am so very greatfull

hugs

Asalam Alaikum

 

[Andreus]

this is why there can be no resolution, my friend

you cannot even see that we are discussing the same issue, just the two differeing cultural perspectives of it

respect is a requirement of freedom

without it we live in an anarchy, nothing more

and once again,...

thanks for talking about it

it may not look like it, but we will all have to keep talking for a very long time before this will get better

these are the first steps

 

[khushibagh]

I think the Deutsche Oper did an amazingly poor job here. As best I can tell, there was no threat actually made against them by any part of the Muslim community. Instead they announced that because there was a risk that the Muslims would go ape shit they were cancelling the performance. Thus, they managed to insult Muslims who in this case had actually not done anything wrong, and offend all the free speech purists. At the least they could have put a positive spin on it and said that they were pulling the piece because it might be deemed offensive. Just because you have the right to be offensive doesn't mean you have to be offensive.

 

[Yves]

Below is a recent NYTimes report with additional background on the production and political reactions. The report includes a conversation (MP3) with Mark Landler, NYTimes Berlin Chief Bureau.

Link to interview:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/audiosrc/international/BackStoryLandler092706.mp3


Berlin Opera May Be Staged if Police Offer More Security
By Mark Landler
The New York Times
Published: September 29, 2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/29/world/europe/29germany.html?ref=music

Berlin, Sept. 28 — Stung by harsh public criticism, the German opera house that canceled a Mozart opera for fear of provoking a violent reaction from Muslims said Thursday that it was considering reinstating the production, provided it could obtain adequate security from the police.

“We’re discussing what we can do,” a spokesman for the Deutsche Oper Berlin, Alexander Busche, said in an interview. “There has to be a new statement on security from the police.”

City officials said they were ready to work with the Deutsche Oper on security for the opera, “Idomeneo,” and were encouraged by expressions of support from German Muslim leaders, despite a scene in the production that features the severed head of the Prophet Muhammad.

In a statement, Berlin’s chief security official, Ehrhart Körting, acknowledged that the Deutsche Oper’s decision to cancel the production probably should have been made after more consultation among the opera house, the police and other local authorities.

The flurry of second-guessing came after intense criticism by German officials, including Chancellor Angela Merkel, that the opera house had surrendered its artistic freedom and yielded to fears of terrorism.

Mr. Busche declined to say when the production might be staged, or under what security arrangements. He noted that the Deutsche Oper’s director, Kirsten Harms, had not removed “Idomeneo” from the repertory, even after she canceled four performances scheduled for November. She cited security concerns after the police received an anonymous threat from a caller.

“Ms. Harms said from the very beginning that we might show it again at some point, when there is new information, new security arrangements, a new situation in the world,” Mr. Busche said.

The momentum toward reversing the decision increased after a conference on Wednesday between government officials and representatives of Germany’s more than three million Muslims. Though its purpose was to open a dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims, it also allayed fears of a violent Muslim reaction to the opera, at least within Germany.

Mr. Körting, who attended the meeting, said it was “helpful” that the Muslim leaders “made it clear that German Muslims don’t see damage to their religious feelings in the restaging of the production.”

Critics have noted that while this tempest rages in Berlin, a theater in Frankfurt has been performing “The Last Virgin,” a play about Israeli-Palestinian relations that satirizes both Islam and Judaism, sometimes savagely. A German Jewish group protested that it was anti-Semitic.

A growing number of people predict a similar plan for “Idomeneo,” though perhaps on a more elaborate scale. “They will show it,” said Michael Naumann, a former culture minister. “They will install security devices, and there will be hundreds of police surrounding the opera house. Mozart is enjoying all this, from somewhere beyond.”

 

[Nonimus]

Meh! Live and Let Live i say!

 

[Andreus]

Germany has very strict aiti hate legislation

For obvious reasons

maybe they have learned from their mistakes?

 

[Yves]

That seems to be the trend. Past experiencies are not neutral. Germany is not the only European country that has some limitations on free speech. Those limitations are very specific and clearly related to past experiences. "Holocaust denial" is a classic example and different from the US approach to free speech (hate speech is protected in public in the US but not at the workplace -California-).
Inciting hatred against a group (religious, ethnic) in public discourse is an offence in a few other countries (Canada, UK, Australia, NZ). Sweden has laws against promotion of racism and homophobia.