Best President in recent history?

[T-Rexx]

Had he been president in recent years, FDR would have been impeached by the Republicans, because of his relationship with Lucy Mercer.

or, you know, because of the Japanese internment camps.

No, Republicans don't care about presidents committing moral atrocities.

Only sex.

 

[evanrick]

id agree Nixon was 10x better than bush jr or even Reagan.

it seems popular misconceptions are hard to change, that Nixon was a great president, but I would still give a lot of credit to Clinton for trying to reform healthcare and passing a budget that vastly helped the economy. id give a lot of credit to Obama for passing health reform, but hes gonna have to get out of these wars if he wants another term.

i think the partisanship we see today started with Reagan and has only gotten worse.

 

[JB3]

Reagan was AWFUL. I don't know why so many people love him.

And Clinton is vastly overrated. He was a good president but was in the right place at the right time.

I'm a fan of JFK and LBJ (well what LBJ tried to do).
Nixon is also vastly underrated.

I agree. Nixon was a brilliant man undone by his paranoia. I highly recommend reading some of his speeches and writings, because they're fantastic and very illuminating. (the silent Majority speech is still one of my favorite presidential speeches)

 

[JB3]

No, Republicans don't care about presidents committing moral atrocities.

Only sex.

The republicans back then were nothing like the freaks that call themselves republicans now.

That, and there were large numbers of democrats that would have impeached him for the camps as well.

 

[evanrick]

well it seems its a toss-up between Clinton and Nixon, until a Reagan supporter can attest to one of his accomplishments....

and the 1st Bush may have been a fucker but id still rate him higher than Reagan and "Reaganomics"

its no wonder people dont have the same love affair with Bush Jr. compassionate conservatism. we know GWB was one of the worst ever.

 

[JB3]

well it seems its a toss-up between Clinton and Nixon, until a Reagan supporter can attest to one of his accomplishments....

and the 1st Bush may have been a fucker but id still rate him higher than Reagan and "Reaganomics"

its no wonder people dont have the same love affair with Bush Jr. compassionate conservatism. we know GWB was one of the worst ever.

The fact that Russia didn't conquer the world is enough of an accomplishment. Viewed through the lens of that time and the cold war, his accomplishments are clear enough.

 

[evanrick]

yeah im not convinced that this big bad invisible boogie man called the cold-war with Russia was any real threat.

Conservatives tend to overestimate threats, just look at Iraq and those WMD's and Iran's so-called nuclear program.

 

[chuck10x]

Nixon was very liberal for a Republican, But he was his own worst enemy.
Minus his paranoia he would have been a great President.
Clinton has my vote as he was able to work with the opposition despite the fact that they were out to destroy him.
If his Economic plans were still in place, This Country would be the Polar opposite of what it is today.
Obama in my opinion has not finished his first term and can not be judged yet.

 

[evanrick]

it's funny how times change, Nixon would probably be too liberal to get elected today.

he got us out of a war, supported Universal Healthcare, oversaw the desegregation of the South, and signed the Equal Rights Amendment... and all while Congress was controlled by the opposition party.

if we could only get today's republicans to have such foresight to support these important causes.

its really sad when you have the GOP more interested in corporate America then the people starved for jobs and a life in their home districts.

what ever happened to the GOP to make them so cruel?

[Linked Image: Removed by Moderator]

 

[frankfrank]

and the 1st Bush may have been a fucker but id still rate him higher than Reagan and "Reaganomics"

Absolutely! I didn't like Bush 41 either, but you'll see it more below. When he came in, I saw him as a rejuvenating breath of fresh air, compared to Reagan. On the list that I'll put below, I'll grade my thoughts of the 10 Presidents listed, and for those who FAIL, I'll put percentages.

Nixon

If he were alive and running for the Presidency today, this old Commie would still vote for him.

If Nixon was alive, and running in 2012 for (let's say) the Future Hope Party, and that Party and Republicans and Democrats were more or less equally strong in today's politics - i.e. voting for the Future Hope Party wasn't merely throwing your vote away - I would MOST CERTAINLY vote for Nixon over Obama, or *ANY* Republican candidate currently running.

Robert Dole was the LAST (most recent) "serious" Republican candidate who I would have considered voting for at all, but of course Clinton was the preferred at that time.

what ever happened to the GOP to make them so cruel?

I can't figure it out, either. But it's definitely true. And, though it's a very short and very simple word, I consider "cruel" to be one of the strongest words in the English language.

 

[frankfrank]

I forgot to include my analysis! And I'm past the 20 minutes.

Eisenhower (too early for the list)
......B (biggest drawback: McCarthyism was alive and well for a good while on his watch, until Edward R. Murrow helped kill it.)
......(Assets: His departure, warning of the Military-Industrial Complex was probably the most important Presidential speech
......in my lifetime, though it was NEVER heeded by his successors. And, he quelled the open warfare in Korea after getting in.
......And, being a General, he was ENTIRELY aware of what the military could, and should, do.)
Kennedy
......C- (biggest drawback: though he may have thought otherwise, he got the ball rolling in Viet Nam...not to mention many
......other ill-thought foreign interventions such as Bay of Pigs, CIA escapades all over the world, etc.)
Johnson
......C (...and he "heaped it on" ramping Viet Nam into a huge war. Big asset: signed Civil Rights, while acknowledging that he
......was probably disenfranchising the Democratic Party from "the South" for at least the next Generation. Turned out to be longer.)
Nixon
......C+ (drawback: his insatiable lust for monarchal power. Also, his opening up of China, which at the time I thought was a **really
......fantastic** thing but, unknown at the time, would lead to economic mayhem here. Big assets: ecology, labor rights, civil rights...)
Ford
......C (drawback: held Nixon entirely unaccountable by pardoning him for everything. In general, though, Ford didn't do much of
......anything else, for better or worse.)
Reagan
......FAIL! (50%) (He drew much of the public in with his body language, etc. - the most charismatic Prez of my lifetime. I didn't fall
......for it, not at all. there's really nothing I can add that hasn't been said repeatedly, though.)
the first Bush
......D+ (Asset: his no-nonsense and reasonably level headed foreign policies, basically a WYSIWYG presidency. However, coming
......from that eminently crooked FAMILY and being partially financed by Neil's ill-gotten scam monies, I had problems with that. Also,
......a massive ramping up on the War On Drugs, which has done quite a bad number on millions of innocent lives, for "possession.")
Clinton
......B- (Asset: his policies recognized the worth of the individual, and he didn't work against people's rights for the MOST part.
......Drawbacks: He was party to some rather horrible legislation, that he was more than happy to sign: Telecommunications Act of
......1996, DOMA, NAFTA, DADT. In fairness, NAFTA was really Daddy Bush's thing, and DADT was a compromise in lieu of a nearly
......unimaginably draconian anti-gay discriminatory law that Congress was trying to push.)
the second Bush
......FAIL! (15%) Far, far and above the worst President of my lifetime. NO redeeming qualities whatsoever. All discussed elsewhere.
Obama
......C- (Assets: strong professed beliefs in many rights and policies which would make America a much better place - union rights,
......voting, tax policies, etc. Also, though he was sort of dragged in kicking and screaming, he *DID* sign repeal of DADT. Drawbacks:
......He's all too willing to "make nice with the Republicans" and cave and walk away from everything he campaigned on or believes in.)
......Another asset: Health Care reform - it's better than what we had, but only BARELY SO. Death Panels will now kill a different
......group of people than those killed by death panels before the reform.

 

[laikaNYC]

^ Sending BILLIONS to Africa for AIDS relief isn't a redeeming quality to you?

BTW, you forgot Carter

 

[LikesDudes2]

I've never really understood why so many people like Reagan.

His ridiculous economic ideas led us down the path to our current depression. He sang the praises of tax cuts even as he raised taxes eleven times during his administration. He sang the praises of balanced budgets, even as he ran up a deficit greater than all previous deficits in American history combined. He sang the praises of small government, even as he massively increased the size of the federal government.

And he was so demented while in office, he was unable to recognize even the members of his own cabinet. (Howard Baker was called in to run the White House in the president's "absence.")

How did Reagan's economic policies lead us to depression? This was Reagan's REAL GDP economic record:

Year Real GDP% Growth
1981 5,021.0 NA
1982 4,919.3 -2.0
1983 5,132.3 4.3
1984 5,505.2 7.3
1985 5,717.1 3.85
1986 5,912.4 3.4
1987 6,113.3 3.4
1988 6,368.4 4.2
1989 6,591.8 3.5

I'm really hoping you can back up your assertions and aren't rehashing a Rachel Madcow MSNBC hot-air talking point.

 

[chrisrobin]

I'm really hoping you can back up your assertions and aren't rehashing a Rachel Madcow MSNBC hot-air talking point.

It sounds to me that you take exception to well-spoken, assertive and intelligent women. I'll admit, the PhD in Political Science from Oxford can be considered very scary by some.
I think we would be interested in viewing a clip of one of her "hot-air talking points." There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but without the need to trash them.

 

[LikesDudes2]

It sounds to me that you take exception to well-spoken, assertive and intelligent women. I'll admit, the PhD in Political Science from Oxford can be considered very scary by some.
I think we would be interested in viewing a clip of one of her "hot-air talking points." There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but without the need to trash them.

A PhD doesn't preclude criticism of ones talking points. A PhD is a doctor of philosophy which comes from docere, which is latin "to teach." It's a teaching degree. It doesn't give anyone license to speak aimlessly and expect for everything to be taken as gospel.

THAT said, please provide anything demostrating the causation of Reagan's economic policies with our current economic crisis.

 

[frankfrank]

^ Sending BILLIONS to Africa for AIDS relief isn't a redeeming quality to you?

BTW, you forgot Carter

OY VEY!!! Thank you for both reminders...

I had trouble remembering how much AIDS relief was sent to Africa by the Presidents, comparatively, even if I had remembered to have that thought...so I wasn't going to talk about it. My comparisons were off the cuff and spontaneous, and I've probably left out things that are very notable...some people could interpret that I left Watergate out when I mentioned Nixon's lust for power, for example.

Notice that I gave Bush a 15% rather than a 0%, so that was intended to cover some things I may have forgotten, such as the AIDS relief overseas.

But, yes, CARTER...
......B- (Assets: Like JFK, he didn't cram his religion down our throats via his agenda. He was the most honest President on the list, I think.
...... Drawbacks: I think he was simply overwhelmed by the complexity of the job, and probably not ready...signed away the Panama Canal...had no clue how to deal with the hostage crisis, which I've always felt was manufactured behind the scenes by his enemies - but of course it was very real.)

 

[JB3]

According to Evanricks chart:

Our poverty rate was the lowest in 1972 or 1973...


....Nixon years.

I'm telling you, they really were good years. The best years in MY life, anyway.

Nixon was a pragmatist at heart, so he wasn't hewn to any particular ideology. He'd be shunned by both parties today, but would probably find a great many fans in the population. (without, of course, the stain of Watergate, etc.)

 

[thevofl]

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but without the need to trash them.

I couldn't agree with you more. Funny thing is that when disagreeing with a number on views from the right, a great number of people on this board seem to go hog wild trashing whomever they want.

 

[thevofl]

To me the only great presidents on that list are Clinton and Reagan with Kennedy barely making it into the good category.

 

[construct]

Well, I guess it's time to weigh in on Nixon.

Watergate and the coverup were HUGE. He surrounded himself with corrupt men--Agnew, Liddy, Haldeman, Eherlichman, Mitchell, Colson, Dean--and he himself was corrupt enough to (at least) cover up most of their misdeeds. What did the President know, and when did he know it?

He campaigned on a "secret plan" to get us out of Vietnam. American involvement in combat continued into his second term, and our withdrawal much earlier would have been no worse than what happened.

In opening up relations with the People's Republic of China, he abandoned our longtime ally, the Republic of China (Taiwan), and embraced a country that was supporting our enemy North Vietnam.

Nixon's southern strategy with its rhetoric of law and order was a direct appeal to anti-black sentiment in the South (and everywhere else though that was less important). His talk of the moral majority was rhetoric against the New Left. Both, I believe, were detrimental to our country.

Can anyone seriously believe that the progressive measures in his domestic policy would not have occurred under a Pres. Humphrey or McGovern? They cannot reasonably outweigh the serious deficiencies in Nixon's record.

I rate Nixon third from the bottom. I might even put him below Reagan. I'd have to think about it more.