Bishops Pass Guidelines on Gay Outreach

[slobone]

Seems like the word "outreach" must mean something different than I thought it did....
=========
Bishops Pass Guidelines on Gay Outreach

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 12:33 p.m. ET

BALTIMORE (AP) -- The nation's Roman Catholic bishops overwhelmingly approved new guidelines Tuesday on outreach to gays, trying to support gay parishioners while strictly affirming the church stance that same-sex relationships are ''disordered.''

Gay Catholic activists immediately judged the document a failure that will push gay and lesbians away from the church.

The statement, ''Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination,'' upholds the Catholic prohibition against same-gender marriage and adoption by gay or lesbian couples.

Yet bishops insisted that they're trying to be more ''welcoming than condemning.''

The document says it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender -- only to act on those feelings. The bishops also state that children of gay Catholics can undergo baptism and receive other sacraments in most cases if they are being raised in the faith.

Still, under the guidelines, parishes must instruct gays to remain celibate. The bishops are also discouraging gays from making ''general public self-disclosures'' within their churches about their sexual orientation.

''It is not sufficient for those involved in this ministry to adopt a position of distant neutrality with regard to Church teaching,'' the bishops stated. Gay outreach must include teaching that is ''welcoming yet challenging, loving but firm in the truth,'' they said.

The 194-37 vote, with one abstention, came at a meeting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Sam Sinnett, president of DignityUSA, an advocacy group for gay Catholics, said the new guidelines reflect the bishops' ignorance about sexuality. He said the document would alienate gays.

''This document recommends the most unhealthy thing to do which is to stay emotionally and spiritually in the closet,'' Sinnett said.
Some bishops anticipated such criticism.

''For the person with the inclination, they find that very very difficult to accept, personally,'' said Bishop Kevin Boland of Savannah, Ga., during the floor debate Monday. ''They feel that the church is saying to them that as a person they are disordered. I recognize that it is crucially important to say this, but to apply it pastorally it can be difficult.''

On another matter Tuesday, bishops overwhelmingly adopted a statement encouraging Catholics to obey the church's ban on artificial contraception.

Church leaders at the gathering are also discussing how Catholics can make themselves worthy to receive Holy Communion. Several bishops said Monday that Catholics who persist in ignoring church teaching, including gays who are sexually active, should not take the sacrament.

--------
On the Net:
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops: http://www.usccb.org/

 

[herenthere]

Maybe they should clean up their own backyard..before they start writing citations to others!!!!

 

[slobone]

Maybe they should clean up their own backyard..before they start writing citations to others!!!!

Oh, they already have! Or at least they're trying to. Heads of seminaries (training schools for priests) are under orders to submit their students to an "inquisition" (shall we say) to weed out the homos. Good luck with that one!

 

[numerobis]

The document says it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender -- only to act on those feelings. The bishops also state that children of gay Catholics can undergo baptism and receive other sacraments in most cases if they are being raised in the faith.

Still, under the guidelines, parishes must instruct gays to remain celibate. The bishops are also discouraging gays from making ''general public self-disclosures'' within their churches about their sexual orientation.

http://www.usccb.org/

Hmmm, what a contradiction! It is ok to have feelings but it isn’t ok to express them, which would deny an important aspect of what make us humans.

At least they are finally accepting that those feelings are natural and not a choice, but because of society standards we should not exteriorize them.

 

[slobone]

^^^ I found that part a little confusing. If it's not a sin to have homosexual feelings, why is it wrong to talk about them? When you consider all the talk that goes on about things that actually are sins....

 

[Roland00]

Having just now read this most recent document. It goes on about the Theological Natural Law and other BS yet at the same time recongizing homosexuality is part of your "personhood" with some people. It is part of your personhood and people should treat you with respect but you have to be celebiate you can't spill the seed after all. This has been the Catholic Church's position for 3 decades. Some of the documents were written by the current pope before he became pope, decades ago. That part isn't new.

This is

Therapy for Homosexual Inclinations?
A considerable number of people who experience same-sex attraction experience it as an inclination that they did not choose. Many of these speak of their homosexual attractions as an unwanted burden. This raises the question of whether or not a homosexual inclination can be changed with the help of some kind of therapeutic intervention.

There is currently no scientific consensus on the cause of the homosexual inclination.17 There is no consensus on therapy. Some have found therapy helpful. Catholics who experience homosexual tendencies and who wish to explore therapy should seek out the counsel and assistance of a qualified professional who has preparation and competence in psychological counseling and who understands and supports the Church’s teaching on homosexuality. They should also seek out the guidance of a confessor and spiritual director who will support their quest to live a chaste life.​

(Bold is new, Italics is old position.)

It then goes on about chasity and celibacy but it switches between these two words interchangably. It says you can take the sacraments if you are a homosexual but don't committ homosexual acts. It denounces Gay Marriage, Civil Unions, and the Gay Lifestyle/SubCulture. It encourages parishal counseling both for gay people and their families so they know the Churches view and thus God's Plan....blah blah blah. Nothing really new.

http://www.usccb.org/dpp/Ministry.pdf That is the link to there statement

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

Same old same old--just a confirmation of what drove me from the Catholic church quite some time ago. Some folk will never change, I guess: I'm still me and the Catholic church is still the Catholic church. Sad, really.

 

[herenthere]

Maybe they should clean up their own backyard..before they start writing citations to others!!!!

My posting came off as really rude. I did not mean to "bash" or be critical of the Catholic church. I have many super friends that are Catholic. I don't appreciate it when I'm critized for being Jewish, and I do not mean to slam the Catholic religion.

 

[slobone]

^^^[ALLENKREPINA] I think what's new here is that the new Pope is ratcheting up the crackdown on any sign of independence in national churches.

There used to be a thriving liberal wing of the American Catholic church, but it's been pretty much shut down under the last two popes. The lopsided vote on this issue tells the whole story.

One of the ways the Catholic Church has survived for two thousand years is by knowing when it's OK to loosen up and when it's better to tighten down. They'd rather throw all their gay parishioners out of the lifeboat than take a chance on it sinking. At least that's the way they think, I'm sure.

(I think that's more than enough metaphors for one post, don't you?!)

 

[Roland00]

Hmmm, what a contradiction! It is ok to have feelings but it isn’t ok to express them, which would deny an important aspect of what make us humans.

At least they are finally accepting that those feelings are natural and not a choice, but because of society standards we should not exteriorize them.

The Catholic Church is walking a fine line.

It has recongized that some people have homosexual attractions that are inherent and its natural. They have reconigzed this since 1975.

But its trying to preserve St Thomas of Aquinas's Natural Law arguements about the purpose of Marriage and Sex. This arguement says anything that doesn't further procreation is a deviation from God's purpose, thus no gay sex or masturbation. Becaue its protecting the St Thomas arguement it will be the leader of the anti "gay marriage and civil union crusade."

The document states its okay to talk about homosexuality if you are talking about your feelings but it isn't okay to make general explainitory statements about you being a homosexual to the entire community. This is exactly what the say

For some persons, revealing their homosexual tendencies to certain close friends, family members, a spiritual director, confessor, or members of a Church support group may provide some spiritual and emotional help and aid them in their growth in the Christian life. In the context of parish life, however, general public self disclosures are not helpful and should not be encouraged.​

After all if you do that it might cause people to think

------------------------------------------------------

Sigh and the Catholic Church wonders why people flee it?

 

[Roland00]

^^^[ALLENKREPINA] I think what's new here is that the new Pope is ratcheting up the crackdown on any sign of independence in national churches.

There used to be a thriving liberal wing of the American Catholic church, but it's been pretty much shut down under the last two popes. The lopsided vote on this issue tells the whole story.

One of the ways the Catholic Church has survived for two thousand years is by knowing when it's OK to loosen up and when it's better to tighten down. They'd rather throw all their gay parishioners out of the lifeboat than take a chance on it sinking. At least that's the way they think, I'm sure.

(I think that's more than enough metaphors for one post, don't you?!)

It is ironic that 40 years ago during Vatican II the current pope was an advocate for loosening up. But his views changed 10 years after in the 70s. Now he is one of the strongest advocates of closing down discenting views.

 

[Roland00]

My posting came off as really rude. I did not mean to "bash" or be critical of the Catholic church. I have many super friends that are Catholic. I don't appreciate it when I'm critized for being Jewish, and I do not mean to slam the Catholic religion.

This is just me, but as a former Catholic now Athiest. I say go right ahead This current leadership is deserving of some bashing.

But I have no problems with Gay Catholics, in fact if there are some reading this thread check out Dignity.

http://www.dignityusa.org/

But go ahead bash the leadership, and I didn't find the first post of yours rude

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

The reason I ended my post with "Sad, really" is that my best bud is gay [and partnered] and still goes to Mass, receives the sacraments, etc. while publicly and privately decrying the church's stand on sexual matters, whether it be about birth control, abortion, pre-marital sex, homosexulaity--you name it. And he seems to be having a harder time of it each time the subject is raised. I don't know how he can go on being so conflicted.

 

[slobone]

The Catholic Church is walking a fine line.

It has recongized that some people have homosexual attractions that are inherent and its natural. They have reconigzed this since 1975.

But its trying to preserve St Thomas of Aquinas's Natural Law arguements about the purpose of Marriage and Sex. This arguement says anything that doesn't further procreation is a deviation from God's purpose, thus no gay sex or masturbation. Becaue its protecting the St Thomas arguement it will be the leader of the anti "gay marriage and civil union crusade."

The document states its okay to talk about homosexuality if you are talking about your feelings but it isn't okay to make general explainitory statements about you being a homosexual to the entire community. This is exactly what the say

For some persons, revealing their homosexual tendencies to certain close friends, family members, a spiritual director, confessor, or members of a Church support group may provide some spiritual and emotional help and aid them in their growth in the Christian life. In the context of parish life, however, general public self disclosures are not helpful and should not be encouraged.​

After all if you do that it might cause people to think

------------------------------------------------------

Sigh and the Catholic Church wonders why people flee it?

A (straight) friend and I once attended a meeting chaired by the director of music for the local Catholic church, who was, shall we say, a little light in the loafers. Afterwards my friend asked me what the policy of the Church was on gays. "Don't ask, don't tell," I replied unhesitatingly, and I think that about sums it up. (I'm not Catholic BTW.)

 

[slobone]

The reason I ended my post with "Sad, really" is that my best bud is gay [and partnered] and still goes to Mass, receives the sacraments, etc. while publicly and privately decrying the church's stand on sexual matters, whether it be about birth control, abortion, pre-marital sex, homosexulaity--you name it. And he seems to be having a harder time of it each time the subject is raised. I don't know how he can go on being so conflicted.

How can he take communion if he's sexually active? Don't you have to go to confession and promise to stop doing it?

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

That's what I'd always thought. It seems that, while a member at another parish, he spoke to a priest about his sexuality and was told that homosexual practices were NOT sinful--and that he [the priest] did not want to see my friend back in the condessional if the only thing he had to confess were his sexual acts. [I'm not too sure my firend was 100% convinced, but there you have it.]

 

[slobone]

That's what I'd always thought. It seems that, while a member at another parish, he spoke to a priest about his sexuality and was told that homosexual practices were NOT sinful--and that he [the priest] did not want to see my friend back in the condessional if the only thing he had to confess were his sexual acts. [I'm not too sure my firend was 100% convinced, but there you have it.]

Well go back to that parish, duh! Was the priest there kinda, you-know?

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

My friend was--and is--convinced that the priest [while very masculine] was gay. If you meant that I ought to visit that priest...NAH! I'm very content as a member of the United Church of Christ [a demonination which is very open and accepting]. Most members of the church know who and--probably--what I am. We love and support each other. BTW they also know and love my friend. [Yes, they know his history, too.]

 

[halubtsi]

Wow...that's interesting. However, the whole sexuality debate is simple in the Church. The only reason for Sex is procreation. Because a gay man cannot procreate by having sex with another man, he shouldn't have sex. Of course you get into the whole thing about hetero couples who get married, but are sterile, etc. But at the base of it all, having sex is bad, regardless of if it's homosexual or heterosexual.

What's interesting though, is under the logic of the Church, I could make out with a man, hug, sleep next to, cuddle and do all of those "romantic" things with a man, and it's not sinning. I just can't have sex with a man. lol.

Slobone, a lot of Catholics don't go to confession before receiving communion. Ultimately, you're supposed to, but now people go up for communion regardless of if they've confessed their sins or not.

Although it doesn't look like much, the Conference of Bishops is being more "progressive" than other churches (ie. Evangelicals). However, it still has a long way to go.

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

Wow...that's interesting. However, the whole sexuality debate is simple in the Church. The only reason for Sex is procreation. Because a gay man cannot procreate by having sex with another man, he shouldn't have sex. Of course you get into the whole thing about hetero couples who get married, but are sterile, etc. But at the base of it all, having sex is bad, regardless of if it's homosexual or heterosexual.

What's interesting though, is under the logic of the Church, I could make out with a man, hug, sleep next to, cuddle and do all of those "romantic" things with a man, and it's not sinning. I just can't have sex with a man. lol.

Slobone, a lot of Catholics don't go to confession before receiving communion. Ultimately, you're supposed to, but now people go up for communion regardless of if they've confessed their sins or not.

Although it doesn't look like much, the Conference of Bishops is being more "progressive" than other churches (ie. Evangelicals). However, it still has a long way to go.

You got that right!